Ford 660 Backhoe...Good buy?

smadjuster

New User
Hi - New here and know almost nothing about tractors but am a decent mechanic and willing to learn. I am in the market for a small backhoe to cut a small house/cabin pad into a hillside, cut a small driveway/road and dig foundation trenches on a plot of gently-sloped land in Colorado (mostly sand). I am looking for a cheap, but decent used backhoe to do the job next spring, and I don't care if it takes weeks to get the job done - not in a hurry. So I am looking to find a smaller, inexpensive piece to do the job, then keep it around for snow removal, etc. A project tractor that I can get running over this winter would be fine. I ran across what I think is a Ford 660 with loader and Sherman backhoe attachment. According to the owner, it has 758 hours on the meter. One swing arm ram on the hoe is bent. It does not run, but turns over. While trying to get it running, he pulled the carb off and left it hanging, now for three years. The u-shaped exhaust section has broken and the exhaust is off, but he says the manifold is okay. He also tried new parts in the distributor. It needs one rear tire. He tried to read the serial number for me and thinks the top number is '40803' and the bottom number '160018', but hard to read. He wants $1500 for it, and my guess is that if this thing won't run, at least I can sell the attachments and part out the tractor? He claims the last owner told him the attachments work fine. I am a confident mechanic and would have to rely on a machinist for some major overhaul, if needed. Would value your opinions, please. I cannot figure out how to attach images here or I would. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.[/img]
 
660 is a 600 series ford tractor with a 5 speed transmission and live PTO (2 stage clutch -depress the 1st half, it stops the tractor but not the PTO, 2nd half disengages both pto and transmission)

5 speed is a nice transmission, 3rd and reverse are on the same level so it's kind of like a shuttle transmission with forward and reverse. Also good to know it that these are known for popping out of gear when things are worn in them, be aware of that at all times, especially on hills. If you are working on hill terrain, you must have good brakes and realize you have NO R.O.P.S. - roll over protective structure. Turn this over and it will kill or seriously injure you. This era machine is ok for a weekender on flat terrain, but will be top heavy with that hoe on the back. I've run most brands of backhoes going back years and even these are subject to be unstable on hills, you had best use care and learn the machine well before fooling with it on a hillside. Rental money is well spent for a modern machine that will out produce one of these relics 10 to 1 hands down. Find something more suited for snow removal. Just a warning, I live in hill country with just under 100 acres, own a much newer backhoe, hills are no joke with these.

There are a fair amount of ford hundred series tractors with Sherman power diggers around, depending on condition, it's not a bad price, but non running, it's worth scrap price. You will want to check the backhoe and loader frame thoroughly, I have an 850 that had one of these on it and the loader frame was broke below the tractor foot rest. Check the top link pin boss on top of the rear axle differential, mine has a hairline crack in it.
Hour meter is to be suspect to be not accurate, you never know, but that would be very low hours, and there are other ways you can tell if its even close, look at the wear on the pedals. Also, you will want to check the front end axle support and center pin assembly for wear. It likely has a general purpose adjustable ag type front axle. Get the front end up in the air and check for fore-aft play and or rotation front to back etc. they can go a long time being worn, trust me, my old 850 front end is shot and I ran it for 14 years, but did find all the used parts to use as a rebuild core.
It's not a bad idea, if you would enjoy rebuilding/repairing one of these as necessary, but you will have more in it than it is worth, but will also know what you have. Not going to be super fast on the hoe, 4 stick controls and if it does not have power steering, won't be fingertip easy to turn. Post back with photos on the ford forum once you get your account established with 10 posts etc. be curious to see what you are looking at and others will comment. I have seen several of these in nicer condition under 5K, so keep an eye out, far better to spend a little more for one in better shape and that goes for most if not all heavy equipment.
 
Thanks, Billy. So what I hear you saying is that if I go on a slope go either straight up or straight down, not at an angle? Would this 30 hp "relic" have enough umpf to get up a gentle slope, especially with a load in the bucket? I need to cut the house pad into the side of the hill, but it is not terribly steep, maybe a 40 ft vertical rise over a couple hundred yards' distance.


(quoted from post at 13:24:41 08/25/18) 660 is a 600 series ford tractor with a 5 speed transmission and live PTO (2 stage clutch -depress the 1st half, it stops the tractor but not the PTO, 2nd half disengages both pto and transmission)

5 speed is a nice transmission, 3rd and reverse are on the same level so it's kind of like a shuttle transmission with forward and reverse. Also good to know it that these are known for popping out of gear when things are worn in them, be aware of that at all times, especially on hills. If you are working on hill terrain, you must have good brakes and realize you have NO R.O.P.S. - roll over protective structure. Turn this over and it will kill or seriously injure you. This era machine is ok for a weekender on flat terrain, but will be top heavy with that hoe on the back. I've run most brands of backhoes going back years and even these are subject to be unstable on hills, you had best use care and learn the machine well before fooling with it on a hillside. Rental money is well spent for a modern machine that will out produce one of these relics 10 to 1 hands down. Find something more suited for snow removal. Just a warning, I live in hill country with just under 100 acres, own a much newer backhoe, hills are no joke with these.

There are a fair amount of ford hundred series tractors with Sherman power diggers around, depending on condition, it's not a bad price, but non running, it's worth scrap price. You will want to check the backhoe and loader frame thoroughly, I have an 850 that had one of these on it and the loader frame was broke below the tractor foot rest. Check the top link pin boss on top of the rear axle differential, mine has a hairline crack in it.
Hour meter is to be suspect to be not accurate, you never know, but that would be very low hours, and there are other ways you can tell if its even close, look at the wear on the pedals. Also, you will want to check the front end axle support and center pin assembly for wear. It likely has a general purpose adjustable ag type front axle. Get the front end up in the air and check for fore-aft play and or rotation front to back etc. they can go a long time being worn, trust me, my old 850 front end is shot and I ran it for 14 years, but did find all the used parts to use as a rebuild core.
It's not a bad idea, if you would enjoy rebuilding/repairing one of these as necessary, but you will have more in it than it is worth, but will also know what you have. Not going to be super fast on the hoe, 4 stick controls and if it does not have power steering, won't be fingertip easy to turn. Post back with photos on the ford forum once you get your account established with 10 posts etc. be curious to see what you are looking at and others will comment. I have seen several of these in nicer condition under 5K, so keep an eye out, far better to spend a little more for one in better shape and that goes for most if not all heavy equipment.
 
Slopes are tricky, traction, center of gravity all come into play. An experienced operator would have a feel for what is safe and what is not, so I tend to warn people in case they are new to heavy equipment and similar.

I often times swing the hoe to the uphill side and or extend same and keep my out rigger on the down hill side, extended when in extreme circumstances, otherwise I try to avoid same, find another way or use a different piece of equipment.

The front bucket on a tractor like this will not have a lot of break out force, but you did mention sand, so you may have a much easier time of it than harder soils, more so if you can work from the high side downward, that will make a huge difference. The backhoe would be best and you would have to strategize as to where you want to place the tractor to work, excavate and cast the soil you remove. These are nothing like a modern machine, but for something like you describe, on a tight budget, it can be feasible. Just depends how much you have to put into it to get it operational. That swing cylinder may not be a fun repair and do consider all the hoses and hydraulic plumbing you'll need to deal with. Being in a remote location, a burst hose will slow you down quite a bit, look them over carefully, there's a bunch on these.
 
Thanks, Billy. I guess I am more concerned with whether, at 27-30 hp and all that weight, this thing can do the job on flat ground, let alone a hilly area. Seems like a real dog.

(quoted from post at 18:15:43 08/25/18) Slopes are tricky, traction, center of gravity all come into play. An experienced operator would have a feel for what is safe and what is not, so I tend to warn people in case they are new to heavy equipment and similar.

I often times swing the hoe to the uphill side and or extend same and keep my out rigger on the down hill side, extended when in extreme circumstances, otherwise I try to avoid same, find another way or use a different piece of equipment.

The front bucket on a tractor like this will not have a lot of break out force, but you did mention sand, so you may have a much easier time of it than harder soils, more so if you can work from the high side downward, that will make a huge difference. The backhoe would be best and you would have to strategize as to where you want to place the tractor to work, excavate and cast the soil you remove. These are nothing like a modern machine, but for something like you describe, on a tight budget, it can be feasible. Just depends how much you have to put into it to get it operational. That swing cylinder may not be a fun repair and do consider all the hoses and hydraulic plumbing you'll need to deal with. Being in a remote location, a burst hose will slow you down quite a bit, look them over carefully, there's a bunch on these.
 
It will cost a bit more than the unit you describe here; but if you have time to keep looking Try to find an industrial tractor, made for a loader and backhoe. An industrial will likely be more productive and take the work load better than a farm tractor with a loader and hoe hung on it. In the end spending more up front will likely be cheaper, by the time you fix and keep one like this going. Just my opinion.
 

The numbers he's given you don't add up.
If it is a 660 the top numbers would say 660

40803 is a closer match to a 62-64 thousand series.
4 = 172 engine which is the larger 4000 series engine
0 = industrial models built before 1963
80 = ? there is no 80, could be a 30 for a light industrial
3 = 4 spd trans with hydraulics and pto

160018 should be the serial number but has to many numbers for a model made before 63
 
(quoted from post at 17:11:28 08/26/18)
The numbers he's given you don't add up.
If it is a 660 the top numbers would say 660

40803 is a closer match to a 62-64 thousand series.
4 = 172 engine which is the larger 4000 series engine
0 = industrial models built before 1963
80 = ? there is no 80, could be a 30 for a light industrial
3 = 4 spd trans with hydraulics and pto

160018 should be the serial number but has to many numbers for a model made before 63

Okay, I finally looked at it over the weekend. The number is 40303, which would make it a 4000 industrial. It does have hydraulics but NO PTO. It also has a Sherman auxiliary shifter, but neither I nor the owner can tell if it is the underdrive/overdrive shifter or the reverser. I confirmed 160018 as the serial, clearly visible. So this is a 40303, made in 1963? Maybe some crossover in numbers there?

Not that it means anything, but the hour meter is at 758.

By the way, what colors should this be? The belly is red and the top grey. I saw no hint of buff yellow on this thing. But the plate (only) on the transmission case under the seat is blue (a replacement?).

Everything appears to be there, except for the badge, grille and seat. I got it to turn over but it would not start. I tested dry compression at about 120lbs in each cylinder.

It has a 19-303 backhoe on it and a 712 loader. The loader will need to have at least two of the steel hydraulic line sections replaced (rust). Also, the backhoe has a swing cylinder with a bent rod. I am having difficulty finding a replacement rod for this cylinder, or the cylinder itself.

There is rust all over this thing, but almost all cosmetic/scabby. There is minor rust pitting beginning in spots on some cylinder rods, and I think they will sand out okay. I will have to replace a rear wheel and tire from rust/damage (13.6 x 26). The other tire appears brand new, is holding air. Front tires will need replacement from cracking. Front wheels will probably need a hub/spindle bearing (a little play) and who knows what else up there in front. The pedals do not show much wear, but it appears that ALL of the flexible hydraulic lines will have to be replaced on this thing to ensure reliability. The loader bucket has some rust, but I do believe it can be patched/welded. The hydraulic valve bodies for each implement are covered in oil/dirt. I do not see any real abuse damage on the loader or the backhoe, except for the swing cylinder. The shovel looks fine. The engine appears mostly clean, with some oil/dirt on the front cover. The radiator is dry...the seller can't remember whether he deliberately drained it, maybe so.

The seller may come down to $1250 to get rid of it. I'm looking at another $300 to cart it to my place, so $1550 total.

Question: Assuming I can get the engine running easily and there is no major work required for it or the tranny, and assuming that everything else except what I mentioned is okay, how much do you all figure I am into it for in parts to make it work? Thanks in advance.
 

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