73 IH 464 starting

HI all-
Nice Forum! New here and hoping you can help. Bought a 1973 IH 464 gas last year, put in new clutch, changed fluids, repaired gas tank etc.
had it running pulling a disc and it just quit. It's getting fuel, i replaced plugs and wires, condenser, and cleaned points. The coil is good
(shocks me when i grab wire and turn starter) but I'm getting nowhere, it will crank well but will not spark. If someone has time, a little help
would be good. I have 9 kids 15 and under, so this is clearly a night project. Thanks!
 
Put a different coil on it from something that runs and see if that is the answer. 60 volts will give you a shock, but come 7000 volts short of firing a plug. If it is wet there, also see if there is moisture in the cap. Jim
 
You shouldn't need electronic ignition to get it running. Points and condenser will make the tractor run, if you have functioning components installed close enough to correctly.

Grabbing the wire is not the way to check for spark. Take out a spark plug and put it back on its wire, then lay the end of the plug against a metal part of the tractor, and crank the engine with the ignition on. It should spark blue at regular intervals. If it doesn't you've got an ignition problem.

Take a systematic approach to it. Don't just rip everything off and throw it on the ground, then try to put all new parts back especially if you haven't done this before.
 
I will check voltage on the coil for sure. I've had to clean points on it several times and am wondering, once i get it running, if electronic ignition might be less trouble.
Can you speak to the location of the fuel solenoid and how to check its operation?

I've replaced condenser, wires, and points. I could not find a cap, as it's a prestolite distributor and the meager parts stores by me couldn't figure out which one it needed. Coils are inexpensive so i will replace that as well. Thanks for your feedback.
 
Pulling it all apart and throwing it on the ground would make me feel better...for a few minutes. I doubt that would help start the tractor, though...
 
I think we will back up a bit here. First off, a volt meter or test light would be really good to help you out but there are other ways for when I guy gets caught without his tools. Realize that the points are ONLY a switch. Just like your light switch on the door only they have open and close really really rapidly during engine operation. The coil is a transformer to build a high voltage spark to spark plug. When the points are closed the current flows through the coil to ground which of course is back to grounded side of battery. When the points are opened, the magnetic field built up in coil primary windings collapse. This collapsing of the field causes a high voltage to build in the secondary windings of the coil.

Easy way to check coil and points is to turn the engine over to a spot where the points are very close to opening but still firmly closed. Then you will be able to turn the rotor in direction of rotation to open and close the points. Now, with ign switch on, take coil wire out of dist cap, hold end maybe a quarter inch from a clean ground and open and close those points with the rotor. If it gives you a good spark you know, coil is ok, points are ok, condenser is ok for at least starting the tractor.

If you do not get a spark, turn engine a little more so points are open or block them open with a piece of paper. Now, using a jumper wire or screw driver or what ever conductor you have handy. Ground one end of selected tool, and again holding the coil wire like before, touch the terminal on coil that goes to distributor. Small spark should happen on your tool. When you remove that tool from coil you should get a spark from the coil. You are doing the same thing a good set of points is supposed to do which is switch that coil off and on. No spark at coil wire, then start looking farther . Good spark, your points are not making good contact, work on them.
 
Pete-
...Very detailed instructions that I will follow. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I'll get on this in the next night or two and keep you updated. thanks again for your time!
 
Ok Pete, I did your first test opening and closing the points, holding the coil wire close but not touching a good ground (ignition switch on) no arc at all. This new guy deduces either bad coil, or bad ignition switch. There is a red wire going from the coil to a post on the ignition switch. Is there a way i should test that for voltage? I might as well get a new coil, I'm assuming its a 12v coil as there is a 12v battery in the machine.

What am I missing?

I would gladly buy you a beer, but all I have at the moment is a baby bottle and mac and cheese...
 
The red wire is quite possibly a resistor (many companies use the wire itself as as resistor), Disconnect one end and measure
its resistance, if near 2 to 3 ohms, or if it has a resistor (visible as a ceramic block) the coil needs to be designed for use
with an external resistor. If near zero ohms, it needs a true 12v coil. not likely to be a true 12v coil. Jim
 
If you did first test, opening and closing points by turning rotor back and forth enough so they open and close and you do not get a spark out of the coil wire, GO to next test where you have points open and are substituting something else for the points, be it a screw driver or wire or pocket knife blade. You have not tested the coil yet for sure yet, just the points.
 
I believe I did the fist test right, but I opened the points manually vs. using the rotor, as the rotor was stationary because the motor was not cranking. was I supposed to crank the motor with the starter to open and close the points?

Thank you
 
Ok- I did both tests and am getting no spark at all. I am getting another set of points and a coil today, so at least I will know these parts are new. Will replace wires as well as cap. There is a black wire running from the distributor to the coil, and a red wire that comes from the ignition switch to the coil as well. If these new parts don't solve the problem, what does anyone recommend in terms of troubleshooting?

Thank you
 
Opening the points manually is not a good test. You want the cam on the distributor to actually be opening and closing the points the same as it would be if running. You need to turn the engine to the spot where when you get hold of the rotor ,you can turn the rotor that few degrees the automatic advance mechanism allows you to turn it and it opens the points. In other words, turn engine by hand right to where distributor almost opens the points. Now points are closed, completing the circuit to ground from the coil. That test is to confirm both coil and points are ok. (for starting at least).

The next test, with points open, is to be done if you get no spark. Now if you get spark using that wire, screwdriver, knife blade, whatever, then you will know coil is capable of sparking and points are not making good contact so you start working on cleaning or new points.

When you get NO spark with either test, then these quick, no tools required tests are over. You then need to have a volt meter or test lamp to confirm you have good voltage available coming into the coil. Don't install any new parts until you confirm power to coil.

I have other ways of determining if you have power to coil when you don't have proper tools in your back pocket out in the north forty, but you have to be familiar with what is going on or you will burn out ammeter or wires or start a fire etc so will not go into those.
 
Ok all-
Fresh update. Due to overall wear and condition of components, I replaced distributor cap, rotor, plug wires, coil, new points set and gapped to .020, new condenser. I crank the motor and still get no spark. No spark at all when I did pete's two tests.

I get no light or current from the coil wire when I crank the motor.
I have 12v reading from wire from ignition switch to the + side of the coil when the switch is in the on position. No reading when it is in the off position.

What the heck am i missing?

Thank you for any help or insight

Bob
 

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