super fc-c - not starting, hydraulics, what does this do??

hoping one of you can help me out there...

i've just bought a 1950-something super fc-c (french registered).

she won't start (though i know she has run recently), and she's in pretty poor shape. working through the usual - new points, plugs, strip and rebuild carb, etc... however, when i pull the choke full on, the carb squirts petrol out of a little jet underneath - what do you think of that??

when she started recently, it was off a crank - so i've got to test the starter motor - but where the devil's the starter button??

do the two little hydraulic arms operate independently using the the operating levers alonside the throttle? it's just the farmall has a sickle bar mower fitted - and when i went to move the operating lever (whilst the engine wasn't running), the mower wouldn't lower to the ground - surely it's meant to??

sorry about the silly questions, but i love the tractor and know little about it - in fact i haven't a clue what the hell i'm doing?!

can anyone help??

regards
lachleaves

There isn't a starter button. At least not from the factory. Below the throttle there should be two rods with a loop on the ends. The left one should be the choke. The right one should be the starter rod. The hydraulics are designed to hold the implement in position when the engine is off. It won't lower it unless the engine is running.

Oh, buddy, do you need help!

You do need to get at least the operator's manual. Sounds like you're in Europe so a) it will take you a whle to get one and b) I don't think the store on this site ships overseas, so look up www.external_link and see if you can get one there. It will cover a lot of what you're asking about, including the hydraulics. At the ime I got the boks for my SuperC, they didin'/t have the IH Blue RIbbon Repair Manual for it (though I think they do now). If that's still the case, the same manual for As and Bs is still quite useful for most stuff around the motor. They also have a manual for troubleshooting and rebuilding the Touch Control Hydraulics if it should come to that.

To your questions --- the starter button is on top of your starter and is operated by the rod to the right of your steering column with the ring on it that looks just like your choke rod on the left. Pull it to engage the starter.

My SuperC has three arms on the TC hydraulics --two on the left and one on the right. The outer arm on the left acts at the same time as the one on the right. The inner one on the left acts independently of the other two. Yes, they are operated by the levers up by your throttle. There wre other configurations (i.e., one arm on either side) but I don't know how, if at all, they might be interlinked.

As for you mower, there would originally have been a bar or rod from one of the hydraulic arms on the left running back to the lift mechanism on the mower (binderbooks has manuals for different mowers, too, if we can identify what you have) which has often been replaced with a length of chain or wire cable. Is there anything connecting the mower to one of the lift arms?

As for your carb, the books may not have anything on that. I'd suspect a stuck or poorly adjusted float or a bit of crud keeping the float needle from seating. Another thought is to point out that if the French tractors are anything like the US-built ones, they don't need much choke. I start with the choke fully closed and open it wide up as soon as it fires. Even if it doesn't start on the first crank, I back the choke off until it is only perhaps a quarter-closed for the next crank and leave it open after that. If I try to crank it any longer than that with the choke closed, she'll flood and soon be dripping like yours is.

fantastic. thanks!

here's another one though - where's the dipstick??

About your mower.

I just re-read your post, and have a silly but basic question. Where is the bar now? Is it straight up in the air, or laid out close to parallel to the ground, but not lowering to actually ride along the ground?

If it's sticking up basically vertical, the hydraulics won't help you a bit. If it's an IH mower, you'll find a rod connected to the frame of the mower at one end, usually by a ring, and passing through the mower bar and held up in place by a nut on the other end of the rod. If it is IH and the nut is the original, it will look like a crank welded to a nut. You'll have to put a shoulder into the bar to take the tension off it while you thread the nut off of the rod and then lower the bar to the ground manually. There should be an odd piece of light barstock with a hole in the end of it on your mower. This is where you put the rod, with the nut threaded on to hold it up out of the way while you run the mower.

Once the bar is lowered in this manner, they hydraulics, if you're hooked up to them, will allow the bar to lower and follow the ground.

Do you have any pictures of this rig you can post? It might help us figure out what you've got.

thanks i'll take a photo tomorrow.

at the mo, the mower is in transport position - vertically up. however, the two bars that support it when not in operation are 'slack-ish' at the moment - it is mainly supported by a chain from the hydraulics (which is tight, but won't lower the mower to the floor).

however, someone posted that the hydraulics won't lower without the engine running - and since i can't get it start yet... i can't check it out!!

thanks

Where's the dipstick? He's at the computer reading this message

Just kidding. There is no dipstick. This tractor was produced before dipsticks were invented. Seriously, IH didn't invent the dipstick for tractor engines until 1958.

You check the oil level using the two petcocks on the side of the oil pan. If oil runs out the bottom petcock when you open it, you've got enough oil.

Dunno if this was covered, but the hydraulic arms will not operate unless the engine is running... They won't even move.

Look your tractor over VERY carefully. Follow the various wires, rods and hoses. You will be able to answer many of your questions just by doing that, and you won't be so confused...

For example, locating the starter button. The starter button has to be somewhere between the battery and the starter, right? Well, start at the battery, and follow the wires. Oops, this wire is just bolted to the tractor frame... follow the other one... Oh, it goes to the starter... What's this thingy on the starter that the wire's bolted to? Hmm, it's got a BUTTON on it... I wonder what that could be???

Hi I also have a super FC (in south UK) It floods just for fun with the choke on. So I turn on the petrol just turn it over with the handle a couple of times then turn the petrol off to start it and as soon as its running turn petrol on again. Something I cant see in your message is it straight petrol or Petrol/Kerosene. You can get a manual ETC from "boutique du tractuer" but don't know if you can get an English copy. I'm about to try a couple of places who have never let me down on manuals etc so If I get any joy I'll come back to you. Your quite welcome to email me if you wish. MTF

Scotty: I think his manual will have to come from Europe. I doubt if it's wired same as a US built SC. Very likely same idea as 444, the one's built in England have Lucas and the one's assembled at Louisville have Delco. These tractors built before free trade had to have local content. Not saying the FC has Lucas, probably something out of France. He might even have a factory 3 point hitch.

lachleaves, in case you haven't gotten far yet... this is my Super-A, and I believe (could be wrong) that the controls are similar...



1) engine cut-off switch. On mine, has to be out to get power to the engine.
2) the 'starter switch',- pulling the ring hits the button on the starter.
3) button on the starter
4) throttle. you can follow the rod forward to the governor.
5) hydraulic control lever that moves rockshaft arms 6 and 7 together.
8 ) hydraulic control lever that moves rockshaft arm 9.
10) choke.

As others have said...
I got an owners manual, IH and I&T service manuals, and a parts manual, all invaluable, all highly recommended. And I would hesitate to try too much until you understand how things work.
Otherwise, keep asking questions.

Pete: Did it ever occur to you these FC and Super FC models being built in France will have some French content. I have no idea what items are different, but I do know the FC was built in 1951 and 1952 only, after the US built C production ended. The Super FC was built from 1953 to 1957 and there were also Utility and Diesel versions. I do know the sheet metal is different from US built C and SC.

These tractors were built before the days of free trade and governments around the world demanded local assembly and some local content. Very likely the FC is much the same catergory as 444 assembled at Louisville. 444 cast engine, transmission and rear end were shipped from England to Louisville, where US manufactured wheels, front end, radiator, sheel metal, hydraulics, wiring and platform were added. I'm not 100% certain the FC and SFC had the same items added in France, however you can bet money it has some French content. I would almost bet the complete wiring, charging and starting system were one of those items.

thanks a lot mike

your flooding problems sounds very familiar!

that would explan a lot - mine floods, spits out petol all over the place and won't run evenly.

i'll try your suggestion...

thank you fellas - one and all.

plenty for me to be going on with!

mind you, if i could just get the thing started - that would be a step in the right direction... god bless it!

thanks again
lachleaves

just another thing, mike

can i just double check with you how you check the engine and gearbox oil levels?

it's not a unit construction is it - so i presume the gearbox takes some kind of universal hydraulic oil?

and finally, what about the air filter - is it an oil bath type? (if it is, mines dry at the moment).

thanks a lot.

There should be level plugs on the sides of the various castings where fluid levels are checked. The rear end/transmission for example should be on the left side somewhere around the clutch pedal.

The hydraulics and rear end are separate. SAE80 or equivalent heavy gear lube goes in the rear end. Hytran or equivalent goes in the touch control unit under the gas tank.

Hi

I have the PDF user manual (in french sorry). If you are interested in, send me some email...

I'ts my own copy and it's rater low res but it's readable.

michel(dot)ollive(at)[google mail](dot)com
([google mail] stands for gmail)