Farmall 130, want opinions

My Farmall 130 has been what I call a beater tractor. I do all those nasty jobs like plowing snow with it. I never take the snow blade push frame off as it gives good front end weight when using mounted plow, disk and cultivator. I've repaired what had to be repaired to keep it functioning well up to this point, however it is a tractor that has seen a lot of hard hours.

My delema, now I find it needs engine rebuild, new rear rims and tires and all new sheet metal including fenders and fuel tank. Problem is, I'm not much of an engine guy when it comes to rebuilding. Oh, I can tune them up, may them work well, and do all day to day serviceing.

The compression is down to 55#, all cylinders. Tractor has new clutch assembly, new water pump, excellent hydraulics, good working fast hitch, quiet drive train, and new front tires and rims. I have a quote of $2,200. to professionally rebuild engine, then I've got to add sheet metal, fuel tank, fenders, rear rims and tires. You know the rest of the story, going that route, I'm going to hit $5,000. before I'm done.

I've looked at the idea of parts tractor, not sure that will save much. Problem with that idea, is to find one with all those items I need in good condition. I see one with good sheet metal, fuel tank and fenders.

My question, how well will I do buying engine kit and attempting that one myself? How do I decide if I fitted sleeves properly? How do I decide on crank needing needing possible turning and replacement bearings. How do I decide on head rebuilding? Remember that professional rebuilder is going to give some warrenty.

Opinions please, especially from you folks that attempted that first engine rebuild and the results.

How is the oil pressure? Have you changed the oil regularly? If it has good oil pressure, chances are that it won't need much in the way of journal work on the crank. However, you would want to have the bearings measured just to be safe. Same for cam bearings--probably put new ones in.
I didn't work on an engine either until the first time.

Simple first question, Do you have a feeling in your bones that you want to do it yourself. If yes Go For It. Theres enough advice on here to answer far more questions than you will need to ask. Like the man said there has to be a first. You might end up paying for it but with a bit of common sense and taking it slow and steady you'll be OK. If you don't have that feeling thats easy! don't do it. Thats my feelings MTF

Hugh, these are some of the easiest engines to rebuild. If you have a little mechanical ability, some basic tools and you take your time, you can do it. You would also need to have some equipment to handle the engine safely.

A good local automotive machine shop would be an invaluable asset too. The machine shop can rebuild your head, and can evaluate your crankshaft to determine if it needs bearings and reground.

I have even bought bearings right from the machine shop.

If you have a warm place to work on it over the winter, it can be a good project.

Hey Hugh,
I can't believe I am giving advice to the offset guru of the board but here goes. Since it is not an urgent thing, shop around for a GOOD auto/tractor machine shop, one you feel comfortable with. They can answer most of your questions. I am about the same age as you and I have rebuilt over 20 engines (mostly small block Chevy) in my shop. I did rebuild the engine in my 130 about 20 yrs ago. Its a very simple engine to work on. With the help of your machine shop, the manuals, and your experience, GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!

That's for a soup-to-nuts engine rebuild, right? You give the engine shop the complete engine assembly, they hand you back a complete engine assembly.

If you only get the machine work done professionally, it will cost a lot less.

For the tin, have you considered making it a poor man's Super A-1? You've said yourself that the tin work on the 55-58 era IH tractors was garbage, and I tend to agree. Should not be too difficult to find a good, reasonably priced Super C grille, Super A hood and tank. It should all bolt right on, for a lot less $$ and hassle. Finding good 100/130 tin will be nigh on impossible.

Hugh, I know from your many posts on this forum and the advise you have given me that you can do
this yourself--Iplay around with these old tractors as a hobby--I am certainly not a pro; however, I have rebuilt several of these off-sets. Really not that bad of a job--You can easily build a sleeve puller very inexpensive if you don't have one or assess to one--Make sure you get the right size sleeve kit--Clean the o-ring grooves in the block good--Have your bearings miked and gring the shaft only if needed. Here in south Ga. you can rebuild that engine complete with shaft grinding, all bearings including cam bearings, etc, head work assuming it is not cracked, sleeves, pistons,rings,etc--the works for way under $1000.00 for the parts and not skimp--You will know the engine is fixed RIGHT--I would say to go
for it-------------Glynn

Hugh,To start with I just about fell out of my chair when I read your message,I now respect you more than ever becaues I always looked at you as one of the experts,and now your looking for advice{A sign of wisdom},2000 dollars isnt out of the price range for a professional rebuild.Most of us tractor -shade tree rebuilders just do inframe rebuilds and never work our tractors at all.I think if you can afford it and have plenty of work to do with it go for it.At the very end you should have a tractor that you will keep for ever and be proud of.
PS do you know your rebuilder and have confidence in him

jimmy

Hugh,
I too had a little extra eye opener with my coffee this mornin when I read your post.

There are much more knowledgable people on this than me, but here is a couple thoughts.

1. If it is a beater why do you want to spend so much $ to make it purty. Just do what it takes to make it funtional.

2. If it was me, weighing the money with what I would end up with at the end of the day, I think I would look for a good deal on a good tractor and keep the beater as a cheap parts inventory.

Good luck,
Dell

Hugh, i dont think you will have any problems doing the major yourself. the head and crankshaft, send them out to a machine shop, have them do the valves, plane the head if necessary, and also check the crankshaft and cut it if required. i would have the machine shop get your bearings. may be a couple dollars more, but then you have the right ones.( i now have an extra set of 10 under main and rods for an m). with a shop manual, pretty much everything else is just dis-assemble, clean it all up and re-assemble. the major done by yourself will prolly run 800 or so including parts and machine work. when done, you will know what you have. when i do a teardown, i get a box of zip lock baggies, and label all the bolts and such and bag em. then when it comes time to re-assemble, you know where everything goes. give rusty farmall a shout for the engine o-h kit, he can set you up.

Hugh: I just finished rebuilding the original engine for my Super C and am preparing to split the tractor to reinstall it. A lot depends on your shop and tools. Splitting a tractor and doing an engine rebuild can be a daunting task if you don't have the equipment. But if you have the means, doing a teardown isn't a problem. If you don't have the micrometers,take the engine components to a reputable machine shop and they can tell you what needs to be done. This will save you a lot of money. Fitting sleeves properly? I've read the horror stories on here about coolant in the oil after rebuilds. But the manual says to fill the water jackets with water to check for leakage before further assembly. If you don't already have one, buy a manual. An engine rebuild, especially on an engine with sleeves is a piece of cake. All of this depends on what you want out of the finished tractor. Do you want a looker? Do you really need to replace the tin? Or do you need just a good running beater? My two loonies worth.

I don't have a problem saving time and labor to pay someone $2200 for a complete engine rebuild (do you take them the engine or the tractor?) You could probably do it yourself for $1200. But spending $2800 on the sheetmetal? I must be misunderstanding something. Fix the engine but don't spend over $800 on sheet metal and paint.

I believe the maximum functional base line is to fins a C123, or C135 engine, and rebuild it while having the use of the tractor it will be transplanted into. The space where it will happen will be reduced by 89%, the tractor will operate, the new engine can be done "right", and I am sure you can do 95% of the total process. Good luck, JimN

hugh, if you decide to do this by yourself i can sell you a major overhaul kit with 3.250" oversize pistons, sleeves, rings, pins, rod and main bearings and a complete gasket set with crank seals for $400 plus a little for ups. good stuff to, mostly american made not chinese junk. good luck. these are simple engines with easy to take out wet sleeves.

My dad did in chassis overhauls on a C and H and it worked well for years. But that did not address the crank seals, just bearings and valve job and sleeves/pistons. Pulling an engine and using an engine stand makes it easy to do. and the satisfaction you did it yourself. Cleanup is a time consuming chore, but you get to see how good or bad everything is. Spot cracks etc. Buying another used tractor that vintage would bring up the question of how worn out is it? If you have money to spend then have someone do it. If it is a hobby do it yourself. Good luck

Hugh, i don't know that this helps at all, but i rember when i was a kid, dad and grandpa rebuilt the engine in my 350u. they set the block out in the sun for an hour or so (summer day) and put the sleeves in the frezzer for the same abmout of time. took the sleeves out of the frezzer one at a time and tapped them into the block with a block of wood and a hammer. new tires and rims might be a good idea if your tractor needs them. does your fuel tank leak? i'm of the thinking of "forget the sheet metal who care what it looks like".

Can't be that much to get Lanse up there over the holidays.

He should be able to knock that out for you in no time.

Simple. The trick for me was to keep work notes as I disassembled mine, and keep everything in clearly marked sandwich bags in a box. [EX; carb, gasket, 2 mounting bolts]. The hardest part is getting the stuff off and getting to the motor. Leave nothing to memory.

We’ll help you along but stay focused – don’t let gaps of time fall between episodes or it will seem to take forever and get frustrating.

Easy motors, kind of fun, kind of messy. Fire it back up, get it hot, fix the small leaks and feel proud of the work.

Hugh, I'm with Glynn Moore down below. You can, in the absence of major problems like cracks, do the motor yourself if you have the time, space, and inclination, for $1000 or less. Just to throw some numbers out, $400 for new jugs and pistons w/rings, A couple hundred for a valve job (you take the head in), $100 or so for gaskets. You could add a little more if new bushings for the piston pins are indicated. all of that can be done in-frame.

As far as evaluatin' your crank, you might want to do an in-frame check using plastigauge. If the clearances on the mains or rods are high, then it's probably worth splitting and taking the crank to a shop for evaluation. You may find that the crank is round in all respects but not worn enough to need grinding, in which case any excessive clearance can be cured with a new set of bearings. That said, there's something to be siad for grinding to specs while it's apart. Grinding, if it should need it, shouldn't run another $150, plus new bearings.

That's my view on the motor end. You know what condition the tin is in, and I can't claim any inside lines on places to find that particular kind of stuff, so I'll leave it there.

Now that's just cold!

Wow Hugh!
You sure got a lot of good advice on your problem.
My solution is a little more simplistic - you could just drive it to Nova Scotia and put it in my shed and then come and work on it whenever you came for a visit. We would just leave the big door open and we would get a lot of people come along to help and give advice. Once we got them organized, you and I could just sit back and eat a few lobsters and drink a little rum. You know that lobster is down to less than $4.00/lb on the wharf?

Robert Lorencz

As to the engine, I remove it and take the empty block, crank, cam and complete head to a machine shop. The guy rebuilds the head, hot tanks the block, orders the right kit, installs the sleeves, and cam bearings (if any) and turns the crank. I do the rest. About $2000 is correct. I did the C221 in my 460 that way. But as mentioned below, you simply have to have the desire and time to do it. The sheet metal, paint etc is by far the most time consuming job, and depends on how you want it to look.

Folks, thanks for your opinions and encouragement. This is not a case of afordability, rather a 66 year old man deciding whether he's up to this challange. I'm not comfortable doing this engine. My career was farming and sending components like engines, IPTO, etc., out to professionals for rebuilding. As most of you know, I milked cows, and since I was never smart enough to hire a herdsman, milking cows was 24x7 most of the time. I could hire guys to run tractors, just never smart enough to hire animal husbandry personell.

The way I had this figured is $2,200. for the engine rebuild. Gas tank does not currently leak, however I have a 1/2" of epoxy on bottom side of tank, over and under tank support. That was done several years ago and is not going to last forever. Rest of front sheet metal is fair except the grill insert. Grill insert is trash. It needs rear rims and tires. Tires, tubes and rims are going to run $800. Fenders are a must, with fast hitch rockshaft mounted on them.

I'm looking at a non running Farmall 200, engine supposedly rebuilt two years before they stopped running it, and engine is not stuck. apparently it has rear end problems. The sheet metal and fuel tank are good and will bolt up. One item that interests me from 200 is the fast hitch remote valve and hydraulic manifold. I've always wanted to lift the 130 snow blade with remote cylinder, rather than rockshafts. Parts of the fast hitch on 200 are missing. I think I can buy it under $1,000. That 200 engine could have a lot of years in it. If not, I'll have a 354898 R1 block that will take 3.25 sleeves. Just a possible option.

Hugh,

Learning new things keeps you young. These are the easiest motors to work on. What could go so wrong that it would not run ? Tin ? Isn't this one of your favorite tractors ? Find new tin when you have time.

Greg

Good luck Hugh, make it the best 130 out there!!!

Charles

Gerry: Of all the folks that responded, your post seems rather irrevelent. I'm not quite sure what value Lanse would be, I really never paid much attention to Lanse.

Having said the above, I'm sure as hell not going to tackle this over the hollidays. Hollidays are family time at this house. I do have two other tractors I can mount my snow blade on in an hour or so, if need be. One thing about playing with old tractors, you never let them gain emergency status.

Hugh,
I read enough of your posts and communicated with you enough to know that you can handle whatever needs to be done on this engine. Here are my thoughts on what to do:

Since the 200 isn't running, you don't really know the condition. What you can expect probably depends on how well you know the current owner. That said, it should be well worth $1,000 for the sheet metal and a rebuildable engine. Most of the sheet metal and the fuel tank are identical to the 130. The grille support (the shell around the radiator) is a different part number. But since the nearby parts are the same, the support can probably be used (maybe a little trimming at the bolster??). The only thing it doesn't get you is fenders, if you need to replace them.

I would get the 200 and try to get the engine running. If it seems to run OK, I would swap it into the 130 and continue to use it. I'd reuse the recently repaired components (clutch etc.) from the 130. If it continues to check out, I'd move the fuel tank and sheet metal in a separate step.

If the 200 engine doesn't perforn well enough, I'd then overhaul the original 130 engine and swap it back in. If the 130 has never previously been overhauled, you probably can just reuse the crankshaft as is and go back with standard bearings. But with the engine out on the bench, it is pretty easy to pull the crank and get it measured. If I didn't have the proper tools, I would take the crank shaft and assembled head to a machine shop for a valve job and to get the crank checked and turned if needed. I'd try the same shop to source bearings, sleeve set and gaskets. If you aren't comfortable doing it yourself, let them swap the connecting rods onto the new pistons. Heck, once the head is off and you see the ridge on top of the cylinders, you may find it only needs rings and you can reuse the sleeves and pistons. Again, the shop can give you a final call on that (based on total wear and how out of round the cylinders are). Since you haven't done major engine mechanical work before, get and read the proper IH repair manual. It will answer questions that you won't think to ask before getting in trouble.

I assume your current quote for an engine job is assuming a worst case situation where everything needs regrinding or replacing. You can probably do it for a lot less, depending on what is actually found. One other comment, I imagine your prices are in Canadian dollars but suspect many of the responses are in the context of US dollars. That can be very different.

Jim: I know my 130 is currently on it's 3rd set of pistons and sleeves, engine has been rebuilt twice. It doesn't have an hour meter, but I expect it probably has 10,000 plus hours, some of them not the most kind hours.

In spite of that it has been quite well maintained. Hydraulic system is 100% original and hitch still lifts with the best of them. I have a 3 point hitch kit and use a MF No.25, 24 blade disk, with 18" blades. Got to be close to 1,000#, and it's a toss up whether 130 or 140 pick the disk up best. I have to give the edge to 130.

One item I forgot on the list, starter was rebuilt this past week, a new armature. I put a new battery in back in Aug. I have a Blue Ribbon Service manual matched to my 140 block part number. I also have an IT service manual that covers 100, 200, 130, 230, 140, 240, 404 and 2404.

I'm not looking to make this tractor a show tractor, just functional so I can use it for all those nasty jobs like plowing snow, disking, etc. My SA and 140 are the keepers. I doubt if 140 has seen 700 hours of service since new. It drives and feels like a new tractor. I doubt it SA has seen 1,500 hours of service since new, feels almost as good as 140. I use these tractors quite a bit, and you know your on the beater with 130. When I had the compression tester out, I checked both SA and 140, 125psi all 8 cylinders.

Those prices are rather interesting, pricing here in Canada is quite different from the US. The auto parts stores like NAPA stock very little, and don't mind telling you they are not interested in tractor parts. We have a retailer nearby, retails Steiner Parts. With CAD $.70 of USD he can quite often match Steiner's US catalogue price in CAD. That is driven by CaseIH, of parts still available at CaseIH, nobody tries to match them. They are definitely the discount seller of older IH tractor parts here in Canada. It just seems like they are determined to shut out the auto parts boys. I've learned my lesson, as an individual parts user, do not import parts into Canada from the US.

Jim: While parts prices here in Canada are quite favorable, service shops and machine shops are not.

Hugh, I posted earlier on this topic; not tring to be negative ; however, I would be extremly careful regarding a non-running tractor with a good history and an unstuck engine-BTDT-with a 100 farmall--I put a carb on and cranked it-- had
a dead skip on #4--furthur checking revealed a stuck valve -then I found the multiple busts in the block--This was from a guy I have known many years--This has been an exception in my case--I
would want to hear that 200 run for a few minutes
though--The exception would be if I was buying it
@ salvage price--I have bought other off-sets on the word of folks with good results--
Best wishes to you and yours for the holidays
glynn