Off topic rant--kids today are mechanically illiterate!!

Has anyone noticed how so many young people today are mechanically illiterate? They don't seem to have even the most basic knowledge of how things work, how to fix things, how to use tools.

I have several nieces and nephews who are in college. The niece had a problem where her furnace humidifier was not getting water. I told her to unscrew the flare nut on the incoming water line and clean the filter out. She had NO idea or desire to even try it. She called in a furnace guy who charged her $80 for about five minutes work. My nephew had his car alternator go out. He paid $350 to have it replaced ($150 for an over-priced dealer part, and the rest labor). I told him that he could have saved 3/4 of the money by doing it himself, because it isn't rocket science to replace. And these kids are always complaining about being short of money.

As a farm kid myself, I don't think many farm kids realize how important the practical skills they learn on a farm are. I'm 53 and have been doing major repair work on my cars and tractors since I was 17. Fixing my IHC H and M from front to back. It's not always easy work and can be dirty, but Dad always insisted that we had to fix things ourselves on the farm.

I think that Shop or Mechanical Arts should be a REQUIRED course in all of our high schools. And this goes for girls as well as boys. And city kids as well as country kids.

What does everyone else think?

> What does everyone else think?

You are absolutely right. It isn't going to happen, though.

Hi, totally agree 100%. I have two daughters and they both know how to use a wrench, hammer and power tools.
Before they were allowed to drive the car by themselves they had to show me they could check vital fluid levels and change a flat tire.

JimB

I don't know that shop/mechanical classes should be mandatory, but I certainly think they should be an option! Around here (eastern Canada) I don't know of a single high school that has any form of industrial arts class any longer.

I think a lot of the problem is that it seems that 'work' is the new dirty four letter word these days.

When I graduated from high school (five years ago) the only thing that the guidance counsellors and teachers would talk about was university. I listened to them and went to uni, however after a year and half I'd had enough of that. After working on a steam railway for two years I took a heavy equipment repair course and haven't looked back.

I've realised that everything has to be done by somebody - so why can't I do it myself. Sometimes it takes me a long time and sometimes it costs me more but I always learn from it and to me that's worth the cost.

The only thing I really don't like is that a lot of things that are 'new and improved' are getting very difficult to work on without a lot of specialised gear. Oh well, there's plenty of gear out there no one else want to mess with

Sam

The mechanically challenged folks are who keep the repair shops, plumbers, carpenters, heat and air conditioning folks in business. It is not just todays young people. I know quite a few from my generation as well as my parents generation who would not know what to do with a wrench or how to use it even if it came with instructions printed right on it, and this includes quite a few farmers that I have known also. I would much prefer to work on a carburetor that has NOT been touched by someone who THINKS he can just figure it out.

Some people are a whiz with a wrench in there hands, and some people are very good at other things which have nothing to do with mechanical ability. This old world needs all of us. (Almost)

Agree with Rusty. There are a lot of oldsters out there that couldn't dump out a pail if the instructions were written on the bottom.

The farm welder may be the most destructive invention of all time.

thats a for sure! some kids dont even know how to check air in the tires not yet change them. same as telling time,some young ones couldnt umless it was digital so they could read the #s.i was a licenced mech. by 22.was over hauling engines at 16.got my first tractor a 10-20 at 15. now over thirty years later, i got around 40 tractors and the young got no interest.we had chores before and after school.field work to do also.there was no shortage of things to do and taught your self this way.

I think the majority don't know how to do their own repair work because we live in a throw away society. When we buy something it comes with a warranty, and usually there is an option of purchasing an extended warranty. Most people bite on the extended warranty. By the time the product goes out of warranty many people do exactly what the manufacture wants you to do and get a new product. Also, it is easier to just pay someone else to do the work. Also, most young people don't know what it is like to have to repair something yourself because there is no money otherwise. If they can't afford the repair, they are taught through society to put the repair on their credit card. I am not stating that all young people are this way but yes it sure seems as though they are.

Should be an elective, not a required course. Would rather have them take industrial arts than a required co-ed human relations course. rw

tractorsam--thanks for your very interesting story. I think it is great that you turned from college to becoming a mechanic.

I wanted to add my own observation--apparently there is a shortage of good heavy equipment mechanics. A local John Deere dealership was running a radio ad recently where they were offering scholarships to young people to attend a two year course at the local community college and become mechanics. I know the dealer quite well and asked him about this. He said that there is going to be a big shortage of qualified heavy equipment mechanics for tractors and combines in the future. The current mechanics are getting older and there doesn't seem to be many young people going into the field.

Jim: My children can all do the same, however we have reached a place and time, some of the parents don't know. Those folks missed the boat.

Your post caught my eye as I had a neighbor 35 years ago, undertook to explain those same basic items you list to his 5 daughters and 2 sons. He knew what he was doing, however his approach was so offencive, he turned the whole family.

One Sunday afternoon he was showing some of the daughters and a son how to rotate tires. From my patio, I could not see the proceedings as there was 500' of 6' corn between our houses. Soon, the son who worked for me weekends and after school, came wandering through the corn, asked if he could borrow my loader tractor. He told me one of his dad's automotive lessons went astray. His dad had jacked up left rear of car with bumper jack, placed 2x4 blocking under the axle, then went to other side with bumper jack. Dad had both rear wheels off when the whole thing fell over. Mike also suggested he take some of my 6x6 blocking and a chain along in the loader bucket. Poor dad, didn't hear the end of that one for a long time. Mike had to lift car with loader, block it safely and put the wheels back on. All the time, mother and daughters scolding dad. In spite of it all, I am confident all those 7 children can check liquids, change oil, grease car, change and rotate tires, etc., etc.

i agree, kids today are not taught much that they can actually use, with todays society, its just "push a buttton in your car and somebody will be right there to take care of your problem for you", id like to see that work out here, not going to happen, it would be real interesting to get a old pickup and a high school kid, take him out in the back pasture, then place all the spark plug wires, and the distrubitor cap and rotor in the seat next to a service manuel, then tell the kid his job is to return to the house with the pickup and it must be running under its own power and not missing either, wonder how many could get the job done?

I'm totally amazed that there seems to be yet another generation about as basically useless as I was at 17. I believe the first thing is to say "this is what you need to do, let me show you then you will know next time". Then we can complain if they dont do next time around. You already did that? aw! sorry MTF

zooethall: I don't agree with the manditory mechanical training in school. Most of this could have been dealt with by parents. Some have done it well and they will prosper. As I read the above, either you, your brothers or sisters have failed.

A friend of mine had a daughter in high school that wanted to take the course in auto mechanics so she could learn more about the car she was driving and how to take care of it. The councelers would not let her take the class saying she should learn how to make money other ways so she could pay the mechanics to take care of her car. So don't blame the kids.

In an age where a lot of children leave school without a sound knowledge of the basics of simplw reading riting and rithmatic jsut imagine them all set loose." you have now been taught mechanicals,take up thy tool box and go for it" . Wow MTF

You make a good point. You don't need much more arithmetic than being able to count to five or six (as in quarts) to change oil, or to change a tire. But . . .

When it comes to picking a wrench, it IS helpful to have in your head what it takes to know that 9/16 is larger than 1/2. In more serious work, it's also useful to know decimal equivalents, like 1/8=0.125.

In my day, the big question was whether you could use a slide rule for an exam. My school addressed that by having a qualifying exam for using a slide rule. The exam was given in class as part of the teaching of logarithms. If you passed, you could use your slide rule. If you failed, you could do your homework and be given an opportunity to take it later after school.

I think this has been coming on for years. It seems to be why we are in the economic situation we are in today. It seems that many young people want to just go into some financial field and instantly make megabucks. That is why there is getting to be a shortage of engineers. My kids saw that I repaired most things and only bought a new one when it wasn't repairable any more (or unless my wife just wanted a new one). When my oldest son was first married he was at his in-laws and they said the taillight was burned out in their car and they had to take it in to the garage and have it replaced. When he went out and changed it himself, they were amazed. People today are just programmed to not fix things like some others below said.
One other story I have is about a new mechanical engineer I worked with years ago. We went to the production plant and he had no idea what the difference was between a electrical conduit and a water pipe. He didn't even know how to change a tire on his car when he had a flat. I asked him why he went into mechanical engineering and he said because he liked the mathematics. He didn't last long in our department. Roger

I almost hate to admit this but I still can't use a slide rule. In fact I don't think I've ever held one. Except the "Circular Slide Rule" (If that sounds ridiculous and unbelievable just say)used in navigation MTF

My thoughts:
When a lot of you guys were 17 or you were dealing with totally different technology. You could see how things worked, unlike the vehicles today where you have to hook a computer up to it. Someone mentioned throw away parts, again a relatively new concept, yet necessary since there are so my devices which are not serviceable. Another factor is on simpler machinery, you didn't have the risk of blowing electronic parts if you made a simple mistake. There are young people interested in cars and stuff, they are called the tuners, and are generally not appreciated due to the fact they use a lot of import cars (and why did they use them ? in a lot of cases they were simpler in the early days.) OH, and then.... you can talk about the consequences for "racing" these days. Way back when people raced, but I guess it was a simpler time when you could get away with it. Now, if you get caught, or heaven forbid have an accident you know either the insurance companies or the lawyers are going to get rich.

I also believe it comes down to the amount of risk parents are will to take. When I was young, I was given and graduated into tools to "do stuff". These days heaven forbid a child may pick up a screw driver for fear they might injure themselves.

And finally, look at the difference in how kids are raised. When you didn't have TV and Video games, you went out and did what you had to do to find something interesting to occupy your time. I don't think I have to explain what a lot of kids prefer do these days. Perhaps if the parents were interested in actually be interactive with them, it might be different. Of coarse if both parents weren't working and living in the hectic times, maybe they would be more willing.

Seems to me that mechanical came to me naturally, to others it doesn't - and that fine, I hate art, others don't.

My 2 cents.

So, from your description, what did you as their uncle do to help them become mechanically literate? What did their parents do? Schools aren't the salvation for everything...they are mandated to do everything from soup to nuts...

I agree, all kids should know the basics of mechanics...I would love to see all kids have to take gun saftey and hunter's ed...I would love to have the schools do a lot more, but with the feds and their mandates, the entire focus is passing the damn tests. If that is what schools are told to do, that is what they do. It doesn't leave a lot of extra time for electives.

We, as parents need to take the time to get the knowledge to the kids...just like we need to help them learn the basics of reading and math...spend time with them, mentor them in all aspects of life. It's too bad so many of us in society are "too busy" or frankly don't care too much about spending the time needed to raise capable kids. Too many of us just say let the schools do it.

Like others have said, repair shops didn't just appear last year. There have been fix up shops since time immortal. Now, there are less and less kids growing up on the farms and learning those skills too. Times change, don't just rant, do something about it.

I hope someday my kids will be smarter than me and not have to work on their own junk. I do think that some things learned in the toolshed with dad are better than most of the stuff they make you listen to in school. Some days I wish I would have spent more time in the computer lab and less time in the ag shop in high school, but you couldn"t tell me that back then. Probably would have been smarter to major in computers than tool and die in college too. But today I work in a repair shop and I depend on those who couldn"t change oil if they have to. Just think if we all knew how to preform our own surgery we wouldn"t have to go to the doctor.

I'm 18 and Iknow exactly what your talking about. Too many people don't want to get their hands dirty and do real work. Those people seem to always be the kids short on cash too.

A lot of the problem has to do with families being spread over the country. If I hadn"t lived a half mile from Grandpa I wouldn"t have ever got interested in mechanical stuff, and if he hadn"t taught me the basics I never would have gotten the opportunity to help grain farm with a family friend the last 10 years.

But I know 20 guys my age (25) who would love to farm full or part time, but theres no money or chance to get involved. I"m lucky to have the chance. Most older guys get out and their ground gets swallowed up into a huge 2000 acre operation. Theres one less small farm that could teach 3 or 4 sons, grandsons, and neighbor boys about farming throughout the coming years. Its a darn shame and I can"t blame young people that don"t want to lose money starting to farm.

Maybe the older generations could try to teach young guys and help put them into a situation where they could get seriously involved. When I am 55 I"m going to pay attention to which young guy thats helped me has the most interest, work ethic and drive. If I can find a kid who"ll work with me then I"ll give him the opportunity to become a farmer by going 50/50 on operating loans, selling equipment on contract and offering rental ground. At the least I can teach him the trade just as my family friend has taught me.

Another good point. I grew up trying to keep whatever wreck I had that month running. There was a point that I was spending more transferring the plates from one to another than I was in parts.

As a good example, I had a girlfriend who had an '85 Audi 5000 when I met her. It had been a good number of years since I'd had anything so simple to work on. Straight five cylinder, sittin' right up pretty as can be under the hood, and plenty of room to work on things.

256,000 miles later, she traded (up???) to a '97 A4. I raised the hood on it and found everything completely enshrouded, and the few things I could get to were yellow, like a dipstick and the caps to add oil and windshield washer.

Typically over-engineered. I recall a problem that showed up on a 95* day down around Richmond, VA. Idiot light for engine temp came on. I looked at the gauge and it showed MAYBE a little warmer than usual, but nothing extraordinary and nowhere near the red line. If the needle had been high, I'd have done all the stuff like roll down the windows and turn the heater on full blast, take any other loads I could off the motor, and gotten somewhere to check out coolant level and the like. But the engineers at Audi programmed the car to do it automatically. Idiot light comes on, it automatically disables the clutch on the A/C compressor . . .

I get back to NY (this would be NYC, where about the only thing most Audi owners know about their cars, apart from the doodads they can reach from the driver's seat is where to find the gas cap)and take it down to the dealer. The new service writer (not my usual guy, who is there but dealing with other folks--luck of the draw for me) is mystified (Idiot light is on but needle reads okay) Just from my experience, I was thinking there must be two different sending units, one for each, and asked where they're located. I also asked if this new whiz-bang engine was like the old five-cyl, and had the thermostat located near the water pump, which is behind the timing cover and requires pulling the motor to change, and whether one of the sending units might be in that area. Poor kid (he's a service writer, remember) took on the look of a a deer in the headlights and, at my insistence, called a mechanic down to talk it over with us.

Sho 'nuff. Connection for the gauge is up on the top of the engine on the radiator side. Sending unit for the idiot light is on the hot side of the thermostat. Bad thermostat. $600 labor to pull the motor and timing cover and water pump to change a $48 (their price) thermostat.

$650 is bad enough just to change a thermostat. The real aggravation is that after I isolated the problem for him, the little snot of a service writer must have spent the rest of the morning doing his research and had the brass to call me later in the day to suggest that there'd never be a better time to change the water pump than right now, for an additional $400 and some. I allowed as how I would base my decision on the input from his tech. If the tech thought the pump was showing signs of excessive wear or failure, then yes. Otherwise, clap it back in. It went back in and is still running.

Circling back to the original lament that started the thread, it's a general decline that leads me to atttribute it to general changes in society. Kids don't learn mechanicin' under a shade tree the way they used to, but the folks with five ASE (or whatever those initials are) certificates adorning the walls behind the service counter seem to be being trained to change parts, not to fix things. The tech that took care of that whole thermostat thing is a dying breed. How that kid I dealt with ever got to be a service writer, I don't know. Well, yes I do. He's trained to take advantage of the ignorance of car owners about how things work to make extra money for his employers. And he does it with trainaing that amounts to little more than the script like waht is provided to those customer service people answering phones over in Asia.

If we don't take back some of this stuff, we're gonna be in a world of hurt before too much longer.

the notion of everyone able to drive, you could blame Henry Ford for that, prior cars were for the elite.

basic care and maintenance is part of auto ownership and license priviledges. If you want to drive on public roads, you should be able to identify basic maintenance issues before they become problems, even if you cannot perform all of them yourself. It's part of your responsibility as an owner or operator. While mandating advanced skills and abilities by complicated laws borders on ridiculous, responsibility for the basics by a driver should be part of public policy even if the only reason is to not be a hazard to others on the road (public safety). While public policy can equal laws and regulations, those types are written much simpler, broader, and are open to interpretation. Warranty stipulations help take the burden off the government when it comes to maintenance regulation. BUT, Why do you think warranty claims are so hard to push through these days, and warranties are so ridiculously long?--people that had no clue about maintenance or complaining about failures that normally happen at xx,xxx miles

driver's education is either no longer part of public education, or is an elective the student loses study hall (personal) time for taking. That program is where there should be some basic auto maintenance taught. That means more classroom hours for that program, more costs, etc; but then you would likely have more drivers with a clue. However, time spent there cuts into time needed for skills and maneuvers we already do not teach that could make driving much safer accross the country. How many years do you want driver training to take?

no matter what you do to help the lack of maintenance savvy drivers, there will be a cost somewhere in the big picture. I do agree we maybe have gotten to a bad extreme generally right now, but you will never have a utopia or even a happy medium because there are so many people and variables.
if i type any more about this it is likely to get too political for this forum.

and on the mechanical perspective, have you looked at engine bays on cars since 2000? many alternators, starters, even drive belts are pretty much inaccessible without a hoist and expensive strangely shaped cheaply made tools! the cost of those parts is not the 50$ 10si GM alternator, either. If you add up the cost of the tools, all the hassles, risks of breaking something else and frying electrical components, and your time, often the shop rate plus part marked up ends up not being such a bad price. I like to do things myself don't get me wrong, but when the item being repaired is what i rely on to get to my job, or do my job, every second counts when the "oh shoots," days waiting and dollar signs start happening. I try to be patient and careful, but sometimes working on your own when already stressed out just makes it worse. I try to weigh the pros and cons, sometimes i do it, sometimes i let someone else. Fortunately my car is a chevy caprice which is easy to work on and parts not too ridiculous in price (although the late models where you gotta remove the waterpump to do a tune up get a little interesting). the current engineering is for another discussion, but when you look at the bigger picture, it's not so bad til you gotta fix that blessed hidden component!

There are no easy fixes to anything, that's what makes it life. HOnestly, It totally boggles me how obviously intelligent people can be so clueless about their cars/tractors, but then they can whip my butt when it comes to socializing or sports, or electrical engineering.


karl f

After getting tired of reading all of these messages,I bet you these kids are much smarter in today's business than we are,and most will be more successful

jimmy

maybe lots of smarts= college = high pay=pay us to do the fixen

Howdy
I dont have time right now to read all the replies (but I sure will). I think we expect too much from todays youth, most of em cant dress themselves, when I see em walking down the street their clothes are 4 sizes too big ,their shoes are not tied and they wear their underwear on the outside. The girls on the other hand wear their clothes 4 sizes too small, and inside out, pajamas are quite popular for daywear on the street and at the mall. Dont expect them to learn anything at school, as the teachers are only 3 years older than the students. Also the government is spending my tax dollars on TV commercials trying to talk kids into getting off their lazy asses for 1 HOUR A DAY, wow they sure should be able to accomplish a lot in that time.
Bob S.

You've got that right. When I was taking the course one of the requirements were four blocks of work experience at two weeks each. I was talking to a Deere dealer in Manitoba (I'm in Nova Scotia) about them flying me out there and back and covering my expenses for the trip if I'd consider going to work for them when I completed the course. It fell through when they found someone local but it was getting pretty close. A week or two back there were ads on the radio for a CAT dealer in Alberta who were in town and hiring.

The way I see it, there'll always be a demand for it. I would like to farm (eventually) and I see it as both an insurance policy and a useful sideline. Round here there's still a lot of old gear in use and most of the guy's fixing it are getting old. I'm starting to get a reputation for working on old farm gear and I do a fair bit of work for a guy who's an hour and half's drive away.

I love working with my hands and a good challenge and there's nothing like talking to someone who uses what you've fixed and says that it's never worked that well. Or like the gentleman I mentioned above who's Massey-Harris 35 combine I keep running said "I've never had a piece of gear ready for the field before I needed it before!"

Anyhow, I wouldn't be doing anything else right now.

Sam

It's a simple thing, really. If your round one adds and subtracts degrees for figuring and comparing true, magnetic and relative bearings, a slide rule (we called them slipsticks) works on a straight line (though I've learned in my research that there are round ones out there) and adds and subtracts logarithms for the given numbers. And adding the logarithms of two different numbers, the sum is the log of the answer -- log(xy)=log(x)+log and, by extension, log(x/y)=log(x)-log.

I had started to launch into a long-winded attempt to explain and describe it, but I found this link that is far more eloquent and to the point than I, and has pictures to boot!
The amazing slide rule

My observations are the same, however....I did notice two young girls that do not mow the lawn,do house work, nor do they even come outside. They are big in sports, swimming all summer, drive new expensive cars that mom and dad bought for them. I have never seen either one in dirty cloths, or perhaps never in cloths that have been worn before for that matter. Well I best be getting to my point. They did figure out how to run the gas out of dads gas barrel when the parents put a top limit on how much gas they could charge in town. So sometimes kids may just need a little push.

Are the kids to blame? heck no, we did it for them, and things are different now, they make more money than dad does often anyway.

I kinda remember grandpa, dad and a few other older folks mention this as I grew up as well.

My grandmother told me one time she asked to please pass the salt at the dinner table. She got a spanking, and was excused from the table for insulting her mothers cooking. Times must have changed a little, as I see kids throwing a hissy fit because their folks stopped at Mc Donalds instead of Hardies. So I guess we could indeed call that change.

Yeah, I already posted but it made me think of the time a kid at work told the mechanic that the DIESEL raspberry picker with a fuel problem had a carb issue. jokingly He told the kid he thought maybe that was the problem but his next guess was the spark plugs.

This has been happening for more than a couple of generations. My father is in his 60s and most of his friends have one skill set or another, very few can do two or more. It's the same with all of my friends (early 40's).

If they work on cars then they probably can't hang a ceiling fan. If they can fix a leaky faucet then they probably can't calculate a return-on-investment. Dad used to say "Bruce fixes our exhaust leak and when he needs a bathroom remodeled he calls us. We all have our specialty and we all get to earn a living."

If you weren't lucky enough to have someone teach you a skill when you were younger it's not so easy to learn as an adult. I can build a house from the ground up, but had no idea what to do with the glow plugs on my tractor. As I tackle owning my first tractor I'm finding that even though I'm pretty well rounded in a ton of fields I'd be completely lost without the help of folks like all of you.

This is a pretty universal phenomenon, not just in the mechanical sector. It's there in the technical sector too. Many of the people I work with are morons. Some are trainable, and a few even have their heads screwed on straight.

It's very frustrating when no matter where you go, no matter who you talk to, nobody knows what they're doing and is either uninterested or incapable of figuring it out for themselves. I regularly hand-hold people through relatively simple tasks at work. I've been known to take over the parts computer at the local AutoZone to help the guy find what I'm looking for.

(quoted from post at 17:45:29 12/14/08) After getting tired of reading all of these messages,I bet you these kids are much smarter in today's business than we are,and most will be more successful

jimmy

Click to expand...

Except for the "successful" in matters of fancy titles and gross salary [many of which are now crashing down - and sure can't hire that plumber to fix the cheap plumbing {you obliviously agreed to} in your McMansion if you don't have that fancy sounding job anymore..... how ironic!], my observations have been quite the opposite.

These same people with nothing but college education [which believe it or not, is often now watered down too] and/or desk experience are now telling companies how to use their money and don't have a clue how a single dollar - let alone object - is really made. Then they wonder why their "magic" solutions don't work. :shock: