Stuck Farmall BN's

Well, presents werent the only thing that I found as a surprise this morning.

Its sunny and balmy here in Upstate NY (above 40 even!) so I went out to go play with the "new" tractors. The one that looks in worse shape, I started to pull the spark plugs from. I dont know why, but for some reason I couldnt seem to get a spark plug socket over the plugs. I dont know if there is a secret, or a special socket for these heads, but I finally got them. The plugs look terrible, and one had some greenish crystals on it. Not good.

With the plugs out, I tried to turn it over with the crank. No go. Taking old's sage advice, all four cylinders are now filled with ATF. Let the waiting begin.

The second BN I started to pull the plugs, but they were loose already.. Hmmm..

ALL FOUR cylinders were filled up with water. Definitely not good. Thats not a good present to unwrap. This one wont turn over with the plugs out either. I jacked up one wheel, tried to rock it loose, nothing else, no extra water out of it except from what happened when I shook it.

So, I now have to stuck engines, one of which has ATF in it now. I didnt add any ATF to the other one since I figured it would just float on the water, which isnt going to help. Is there a good way to get the water out of the cylinders without pulling the head? Or should I just go get the gasket set and pull the head to see what really awaits me in there?

I dont have a shop, so things are all out of doors, which I know isnt good once you start opening things up.

Any advice from those that do this all the time?

Unless they have been running (for sure) in the last year or so, the water in all cylinders tractor will likely need to be taken apart. The other one has a chance. If it is known that they ran, :do this.
Use air pressure to blow as much water out of the cylinders as possible. Use HEAT, or other methanol or pure alcohol to dilute the remaining water. Blow that out with air (be careful of ignition sources, it is flammable)
Put ATF in each hole (at least a 1/3 cup) and reinstall the plugs. Walk away for a week. Then begin trying to start the tractors with the starter. (I like to set them up on a RR tie or equal so they are trying to roll off frontwards in high gear, this puts twist on the crank from the rear, then use a hand crank or pipe wrench to hang 150 pounds on a 2 foot pipe on the front crank snout this applies twist to the fromt of the crank. Hitting the starter (bumping it, not holding it on) will jog the flywheel further). Good luck, JimN

My 2 cents. Open the BN up that has water in it open it up and see what you've got before you buy any parts.

The one with the water in it I would go ahead and pull the head off. There is almost no way to get all the water out of the cylinder with out doing so and even then its iffy at best. I would pull the head then mix ATF and some gas. Say about 10 to 1 ATF and gas. If you can do so safely then light it up and let it burn till it goes out and then add a little more gas. Do that 3 or 4 times and make sure what if left in the cylinder is hot so as to boil off any water that may still be there. The give it a try as far as turning it over. I would use a 12 volt battery on the starter and use short fast taps on the switch. If it moves keep tapping if it doesn't then you will probably have to take it all apart. Also pull the oil drain plug to see how much water is in the oil. If you get much you will probably end up having to take it all aprt
Hobby farm

Clarkbug,it wouldn't surprise me if the cylinder sleeves aren't froze and busted because of the water and the temperature in NY

jimmy

If the cylinders had water or antifreeze in them, you need to pull the head off and check out the cylinders. Clean the rust from the cylinders. If they look okay, put PB Blaster in the cylinders, great stuff, I've freed up many engine with PB Blaster. While it is soaking, tap the starter every once in a while. I think if it had water in the cylinders, you need to rebuild the engines.

The one with all the water in it, check the oil. See if its got water in the pan. If the cylinders are full, it almost certainly has oil in pan. Pull it apart. Bernie teffen

as far as the spark plug issue, i think the early head castings for the 113 motor were thick around the spark plug holes, making a standard socket tough to get in there. you need a thin wall socket or take a regular deep socket and "thin it up" on the grinder. cut back about the first inch or so, it should fit then. as far as the rest of the motor, get the water out by using compressed air and get some trans fluid in there. the super m i'm working on was stuck real nasty, i used pb blaster in the cylinders, then filled the engine crankcase with kerosene (thru the valve cover) till the motor was full and let er set for several months. drain the oil out first before you fill it. i'd bet you will need to overhaul both motors. the kerosene (or diesel fuel) in the crankcase will help clean up all the gunk so it comes apart a little easier.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

This is a new area for me, not having had to tear into a motor to this level before, but Im looking forward to it to say the least. (not looking forward to the cold temperatures, but its supposed to be mild this weekend)

Ill go pick up some gasket sets and see what I find when I open things up.

Im sure there will be LOTS more posts to come on this topic, and the M and H's for when I get stuck on these two little ones.

Old, if you read this one again, I wont be needing that fan spindle any time soon it looks like

Well if down the road you find you need parts for a B or BN I have a parts B laying around and may have another one that may be parted out. Not sure yet if I'll fix the one or not. Been soaking the cylinder with ATF now for a month or so and it hasn't moved yet but I also haven't really tried all that hard to get it to move. As always my e-mail is open if you need help feel free to ask
Hobby farm

how come nobody here has come up with the idea of filling the block with hot water, letting sit drain and repeat?

If you have a wet or dry vacuum use it suck out all the water. You can then fill it with ATF you may need to pull the head anyway if its been stuck a long time. Those engines have wet sleeves
and are not pressed into the block and you use a piece of 2 X 2 oak and a big hammer and drive on the connecting rods once you have it unbolted. The sleeve will come out or the piston. I did an A years ago that was stuck. Pulled the engine since its easier to work on. It needed the block cleaned too. I think I got the pistons and sleeves out the same day I got it home. That tractor hadn't seen a shed since it rolled off the assembly line. This was in 1975 and 1976 before I had it running and painted. Needed rims, tires, wiring, steering wheel and fenders.
The engine was the easiest to fix with a new sleeve kit. crankshaft polished, new bearings and head redone. I put in all new valves, guides and springs. I had the clutch disc redone at a brake shop. Hal

Not a good idea. Just like you should never fill a hot eninge with cold water unless it is running or you can/will crack the block. So filling an engine with hot water and its cold can/will crack a block. Now if you could say hook up an water heater to it and start with cold water and then turn on the water heater so it heated up the engine slowly yes that could work. I have tried to figure out how to do that but so far the problem is how to fill and keep things as they need to be and be safe and hot enough to do any good. I.E. you would need to have the water up to around 200 plus degrees to do much good
Hobby farm

Quick question for anyone out there as far as pulling this head (hopefully) tomorrow.

I know to unbolt the valve cover, and looking through my IT manual it says to remove the rocker arm train and the push rods. I also know its good practice to keep the rods numbered and put them back from where they came from, but are there any tricks to removing the rocker arms?

When I finally unbolt the head, how critical is it to unbolt in the reverse pattern of the torquing?

Ill go un-hook a battery from one of the other machines to hit the starter a few times and see what happens. Hopefully the starters are still good.....

I can"t remember what your intentions for these tractors were. If you really want to do things right, I wouldn"t waste too much time thinking about what could be wrong, I would go ahead and dsmantle. It should only take a day to get the block off (then you could possibly get it inside?) Just keep all the parts nice and organised and labeled. It took about 3 months of soaking to get my super A unstuck, and that was without there being water in the cylinders (8 or 10 years of sitting). If you have water in the cylinders, you will probably also have it in other places like the tranny. Before buying stuff, you should make sure the crank is good, the bearings are good, the cam gears are good. No point in wasting money on parts only to find other major issues. If you take the big stuff apart and find out what the scope of the project is, you would be better off.

my 2 cents.

Mornin Brian.

Ill be honest that I dont know what my intentions are either

They were an impulse purchase since there was a lot of demand on the buyer, and he didnt want to sell but needed the cash. So, I paid a parts price for them, and that may be what I have in the end.

However, I would like to get at least one of them running again, if not both. The one that was running this spring I was hoping to turn over this weekend, but Im not sure how badly that one sticks. There wasnt water in the cylinders, so it might pop loose soon with just the ATF. The one with water in it is a more complete machine, but Ill have to start looking to see how bad it is. Ill drain the oil out of it later today if it warms up enough and see how much comes out. I may fill the whole engine with diesel if I cant tear into it in the next few days and then address it again in a few months.

I do appreciate the parts advice. The only thing I have done so far is I sent one of the generators to be rebuilt since it was off the tractor already. Aside from manuals, thats all the money I have in them.

Ill open up the head in the next week and see what things look like, and maybe drop the pans on each of them as well.

New frontier for me, but Im enjoying it so far...

I am restoring a BN and need the temperature gauge bracket, steel fuel line between the carburetor/fuel shut off under the tank and starter rod. I think I could make the parts but would rather get the originals. If you can help, please let me know your prices.

Best Regards
John W. Edson
5600 Leininger Road
Vina, CA 96092

Hi John.

Im not looking to part either of the BN's out just yet, simply because I dont know how good/bad they are yet, and am in the process of finding that out...

However, I can also tell you that the things that you are looking for arent on either of the machines that I have. Neither came with the temp bracket that I can see, the fuel lines have long since been replaced with something thats a patchwork of rubber and copper lines, and neither even has a starter rod, just the starter.

So I dont think Ill be too much help to you unfortunately...

You can try a tractor junkyard (try www dot wengers dot com ) to see if they have the parts, or OEM tractor parts will have all of the parts, if you are willing to pay their prices.

Good luck in your restoration!