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Posted on Tractor talk by mistake... Starter ???

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Hey folks,
On my German made Farmall w/ 3cyl diesel motor (DD-111).
In winter, it would take forever to start because the starter would spin and not kick in. Or crank a few rounds and kick out (spin free). Once started and warmed up, it would be fine when started again. Weather warmed up and it starts good now only occassionally spinning free but no show stopper.
Starter problem? Or, is the starter fine and just the cold weather (15-20 F) has the enging kick a little (I don't feel it) and tell the starter gear to disengage (Wouldn't really explain spinning free without engaging)?

Starter has a solenoid on it but my parts manual only shows a complete assembly which is real expensive.
Any tips? Is it possible to cross reference my PN# (711 104 R91) to find another comparable with a repair parts list (assuming I know what I would need)?

Thanks,

Dave
 
I think it is the bendix that is at fault, maybe it's not slinging out all
the way to the ring gear. There's a local guy here in NY who
rebuilds starters and has done one bendix for me. I've never gotten
in there myself so I don't know what is involved to do the job.
Zach
 
Odds are the starter has a centrifugal drive on the end, commonly called a "Bendix" here in the US because it was pioneered by the Bendix Corporation way back in ancient times.

That end is either worn out or gummed up on your starter.

Here in the US we can get replacement starter drives, and the actual replacement of the drive is relatively simple for someone who is mildly mechanically inclined. We can get them at a CaseIH dealer, or at many auto parts stores because the starter is a standard Delco part used on many tractors and even cars.

Your best bet is to check with a CaseIH dealer in your country, though I don't know how parts availability is for older tractors in Germany.

Maybe you can find the identification plate on the starter? It might be an imported Delco, and you can get a starter drive from a US parts supplier.
 
(quoted from post at 05:06:18 05/05/10)
Your best bet is to check with a CaseIH dealer in your country, though I don't know how parts availability is for older tractors in Germany.

Maybe you can find the identification plate on the starter? It might be an imported Delco, and you can get a starter drive from a US parts supplier.
Click to expand...

I'll try cleaning first then and look for a plate. Dealer will only send it away for rebuild to the tune of about 450 bucks. Maybe there's some identification somewhere.

Dave
 
If it's a Delco it should have a small oval plate riveted to the case. Unless the starter has 1/4" of paint and crud caked on, it should be easy to find... Whether it's easy to read is another story.

Sometimes we take parts availability for granted here in the US. Not everybody has it as good as we do unfortunately.
 
If you have a solenoid, the problem is the starter drive (not Bendix style) has given up the ghost. It is an automotive style overrunning drive and the sprags are worn out.
That is my story & I am sticking to it!!
 
It seems likely the problem is the starter drive. Wayne's comment that the drive is a non-Bendix drive is probably true although there are a lot of solenoid controlled starters with Bendix drives. Doesn't matter what type it is, you need the specific one that works.

Low voltage to the starter could be the problem. Low temperatures reduce battery output and bad connections will loose more power. So before replacing the starter, make sure the battery, wiring and grounds are in good shape.

I found a reference to a French company that supplies after merket starters. The company is ADI Original and their replacement starter is DEM119. Their cross-reference lists the following starters as replaced with DEM119:

Bosch
0001354026
0001354094
0001366019
EJD1,8/12R61

ELSTOCK
25-1350

DUCELLIER
6163

Maybe that will help you find a replacement drive.
 
(quoted from post at 07:23:07 05/05/10) It seems likely the problem is the starter drive. Wayne's comment that the drive is a non-Bendix drive is probably true although there are a lot of solenoid controlled starters with Bendix drives. Doesn't matter what type it is, you need the specific one that works.

Low voltage to the starter could be the problem. Low temperatures reduce battery output and bad connections will loose more power. So before replacing the starter, make sure the battery, wiring and grounds are in good shape.

I found a reference to a French company that supplies after merket starters. The company is ADI Original and their replacement starter is DEM119. Their cross-reference lists the following starters as replaced with DEM119:

Bosch
0001354026
0001354094
0001366019
EJD1,8/12R61

ELSTOCK
25-1350

DUCELLIER
6163

Maybe that will help you find a replacement drive.
Click to expand...

Thank You!!!
Since you mention electric/ground, this has only been noticeable this past winter. I put in a new battery because my old one was weak but didn't do anything to other connections. Had some major engine work done last fall which had wiring and maybe starter removed. I'll check the all is clean, tight, and grounds back in place.

Dave
 
Proper nomenclature, bendix drive is inertia engaged, clutch type are solenoid engaged. Solenoid on starter does two things, engages drive and connects starter motor to battery power. Magnetic switch (often referred to as a solenoid) connects starter to battery power only and it is used with a bendix style inertia type starter drive. Taken from 1956 version of automotive electrical training manual. There was also a combination type called dyer or something like that but was not common.
 
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