Problem with Sickle Cutter Pitman Arm, (tractor= Farmall H.

farmergeist · Jul 1, 2010

I have a really old Sickle grass cutter...an old John Deer from the 1950's or 60's.
It was working fine. All of a sudden, the wooden Pitman arm broke off near the ball "clamp", for want of a better word.

Put a new one on, but it kept popping off the ball on the blade. Was told to lubricate it more, that the blade was working too hard. Good advice, did as told, was running fine...for about five minutes, then the new wooden pitman arm broke--literally sheered off before the ball clamp.

I can't figure out what is wrong. It has been working fine for years. It appears the clamp pops off the ball and the arm then self destroys.

Any suggestions from you experienced older farmers out there....besides buying another cutter?

But, by the way, if you did buy a new cutter, what brand would you suggest for a Farmall H which connects to it via a PTO.

I hate to get rid of the old one and want to fix it, but this sudden propensity to self destroy is getting to be a pain.
HELP!

Brownie 450 · Jul 1, 2010

I had the same trouble. I put a hose clamp around the ball clamp so it would hold tight. That release "thing" that they had on the end of the pitman stick was a big joke. Make sure the sickle is sharp--will pull a lot easier.

F-Dean · Jul 1, 2010

What are you trying to cut? A sharp sickle is a must if you are cutting Buffalo grass.

farmergeist · Jul 1, 2010

Thank you Brownie.....you read my mind..I thought of that, but somehow, did not think it would do much.

If it worked for you, it will probably work for me. And yet, that release "thing" is a bad joke. I just can't understand why all of a sudden it is acting up.

My field got really tall grass...perhaps this is the problem too?

Thank you.

Smith1000 · Jul 1, 2010

I am having the exact same problem at the moment on an old Case No. 10. The pitman broke. I replaced it and the arm keeps popping off the ball. I finally ran a bolt through to hold it on tighter and then the pitman broke. Not sure what the problem is at the moment. I think it is binding.

State of Jefferson · Jul 2, 2010

Can't say forsure without looking at it. Something must be out of adjustment/ warn. Is your sickle binding? Can you slide it back and forth by hand? That'd be the first place I'd look.
Pitman arms are a PAIN.

I bought an old #110 I ballanced head mower a couple years ago, and really liked it. It's for sale now, even though I hate to let it go, it just doesn't fit my opperation anymore. Check them out. They elliminate that lousey breakin wood stick!

Ben

Dave from Texas · Jul 2, 2010

Mine was wornen on the bottom of the ball clamp. I built it back up by welding and it solved mine from jumping off. I lost 3 pitman arms before I fixed it.

mkirsch · Jul 2, 2010

On the IH mowers, the ball clamp can be VERY difficult to get fully clamped. The "paddle" or lever that you use to actuate the clamp must be FULLY against the pitman arm, or it will pop off.

Dave H (MI) · Jul 2, 2010

OK...so you want to keep the mower so my opinion that the older pitman mowers are interesting only for show restorations and swim raft anchors is not wanted.

JD mowers of that age, and my experience is with the semi-mounted #5 mowers (thinking yours is likely similar), had two cups that clamped over a ball on the end of the knife. Balls may or may not have zerks in them...seen both. Cups are held on tight with a "T" shaped part (fork) that has a heavy coil spring on it's shaft. Make sure it is all there and the spring is holding tight. Cups and knife balls can wear out. I have seen cups worn to a knife like edge. My best luck has been with good cups and the ball with the zerk. Check your parts for wear and get the manual and make sure it is set up right and sharp so that you are not overstressing the joint. HTH, Dave.

ryanwheelock · Jul 2, 2010

Your problem is the cam that opens the end of pitman stick to slide over the ball on sickle blade. The cam is worn and doesnt hold the ears tight against the ball socket part. Replace that cam piece and all probelems are fixed. Been there myself on my New idea mower.
Ryan

Jim Becker · Jul 2, 2010

Here is one more piece of the story that can make a difference. It may not be the source of your problem. Proper registration of the knife in the guards is critical to easy operation. At each end of the knife stroke, the sections need to be dead center in the guards. If your replacement pitman is not exactly the same as the original, the registration will be off.

I have known of multiple cases where a mower was working fine then the pitman broke (for whatever reason, including old age). The owner made a replacement stick and didn't get the length right. The replacement broke in short order. After making/breaking several home made sticks, a new stick from the manufacturer was installed and things went back to normal. It is hard to get the length just right when working from a broken piece of wood.

rustyfarmall · Jul 2, 2010

I agree with what the others have mentioned, but you also need to make sure the sickle bar is "timed" to the mower bar. In other words, when the sickle reaches the end of the stroke, the mower sections need to be exactly centered in the mower guards. Your owners manual will show the procedure. Also, the far outer end of the mower bar needs to "lead" the inner end, i.e, the outer end should be ahead of the inner end. Again, the owners manual will explain it. I spent most of my youth riding on an H Farmall with a John Deere #5 hay mower attached. There just isn't any combination that works much better until you get into the much newer style of mower.

farmergeist · Jul 2, 2010

Thanks to all of you for your advice. Unfortunately I do NOT have a manual for this cutter and don't even know the John Deer model#

As a former engineering student, I must say that this pitman arm clamp is one of the dumbest devices I have ever encountered. Even the Egyptians of ancient times could build something better than this.
John Deer should be ashamed of itself.
As for a #110 Cutter, I would be interested in a photo of it, Ben adn what you are asking for it and where you are located. Thanks to all again.;

I just got another pitman arm and will try the
hose clamp idea, If that doesn't work, I may look for a different cutter. I don't have tons of time to "crap around" with this..it just gets annoying.

Happy 4th of July to all. It is still a great country...the American people are terrific--even if the present government, and the past ones of recent date are doing their best to screw the country up! But, as a people, we will survive, I'm confident of that. Someone recently wrote about how we can "learn from Europe"--I almost blew my lunch over that one!!!

State of Jefferson · Jul 2, 2010

I'd like to get $750 for it, I have way more than that invested in it, but don't need it sitting around taking a parking spot, and going un used. I'm on the west coast, in Very far Northern (don't hold it against me) California...

Ben

Dave H (MI) · Jul 2, 2010

The #110 balanced head mowers I am familiar with are mid-mount. That looks like a #120 mower to me. I have one in as good or better shape and paid $108 for it on e-bay last fall. It come with a lot of extras too. Must be worth a lot more in California I guess.

State of Jefferson · Jul 2, 2010

Maybe it is a 120, I guess I was thinking the 120 was fasthitch, 110 was semi mount, 115 mid mount, 100 trailer, 130 3 point... Perhaps I'm cornfused. I know I had it right once upon a time...
You got a good deal if that's all you paid. I see dealers asking $1000-2500 for them, (I know those aren't necessarily realistic prices though)
And yes, it seems like all this stuff is worth more on the west coast, less of it around than in the mid-west, I spose.

Ben

farmergeist · Jul 2, 2010

Ben, Thanks for the good photos. Your cutter looks a lot less complicated than this ancient John Deere I have. I'd be interested in it, but you are too far away from me...I'm in Southern Vermont! The shipping would be prohibitive. Also, your price is high for around here. An old cutter goes for about $300 to $500. up here.

I am curious though as to what drives your cutter. I notice the PTO is not hooked up. Is there a gas motor on the side I can't see, or an electric motor?? Let me know please. and Thanks!

State of Jefferson · Jul 3, 2010

That seems to be the way it works. I need something and they're all in the mid west, all the inquiries for things I have to sell come from across the country. Murpheys Law I suppose!

My mower is PTO driven, I think when I took the picture I had just hooked it up to pull it out of the barn, but wasn't going to work anywhere, so didn't put the front half of the PTO shaft on...

Ben

Jim Becker · Jul 3, 2010

As a former engineering student, I must say that this pitman arm clamp is one of the dumbest devices I have ever encountered. Even the Egyptians of ancient times could build something better than this.
John Deer should be ashamed of itself.

Before you get too hard on the designers, I suggest you try an exercise:

Come up with your own sickle drive mechanism. Stay within these constraints:
1) Each end of the cutter bar must float independently while operating.
2) Bar can be raised to transport position.
3) Drive mechanism allows some front to rear movement of the cutter bar.
4) Normal maintnance and repair can be done with simple hand tools.
5) Limit the design to technology (metals and machine tools) that was available 100 years ago.
6) Machine still works when 50 or 60 years old.
7) Keep the cost down so a 1930's farmer could afford to buy one.

farmergeist · Jul 3, 2010

Okay, fair comment, but this isn't 100 years ago.
Even given that, something goes wrong with this
stupid sickle cutter almost every time I use it.
I don't know how farmers put up with this thing.
I'm sure the other design "tricks" are great, but
I'm concentrating on the clamp and ball mechanism
which I still say is idiotic....even for 100 years
ago. Don't forget we were building railroads and
bridges 100 years ago. The technology wasn't THIS
bad! Anyway, having fooled with it long enough I
am going to do exactly what you said..design
something which works more easily than that stupid
clamp and ball. I've had it with this thing!

Mark in Upstate · Jul 6, 2010

I grew up using a #5 JD sickle on a JDB. Cut hundreds of acres during my teenage years. Always kept equipment under cover and was taught that maintenance to time and patience. Take the time to properly maintain the piece; you may find it works better down the stretch. I just purchased an H and belly mower; the maintenance begins. This equipment was used for many decades without any problems. She is probably binding somewhere.

tjpocock · Jul 6, 2010

I noticed in the pictures you posted what looks to be an A model farmall with a belly mount sickle in the back ground. Can you send me some pictures of the sickle as it is mounted? I have an old super A I acquired that came with a sickl mower that looks similar to that A of yours in the picture, but I can't figure out how to mount it. Anything you can do would be apprectiated.

Thanks!

farmergeist · Jul 7, 2010

tjpocock: The photos were posted by "BEN", not
me.
I have an old John Deere#5 mower, I am now told.

A friend/farmer brought over one of the pitman
arms bought from a John Deere dealer. It turns out
that
I compared it to that which I purchased from
Tracctor Supply and the factory one is about 2.5
inches shorter! We think that is the problem. I
installed the John Deere pitman arm and will try
it out as soon as temps cool down.

As the last post indicated, these mowers require
more time, attention and patience than I can give.
Accordingly, I am putting my old #5 mower up for
sale if anyone wants to purchase same. I have
other fish to fry in life than to baby this thing.
I will get a used "disc" mower instead.

Send BEN an e mail about the photos.

Farmergeist

Clarkbug · Jul 12, 2010

Farmergeist,

Did you give things a try with the new pittman arm? I would imagine thats why the ball kept releasing on you, but wanted to see if that helped things any.

Even if you do buy a used disc mower, the sickles are pretty handy for keeping hedgerows and pasture down, especially in areas you dont want to drag your mower.

Im working on getting a #5 set up on a Farmall H currently, and am not all that far from Southern VT.

farmergeist · Jul 12, 2010

Dear Clarkbug. I'm betting you work at the Clark

Institute and museum in WilliamsTown?

Anyway, Yes I waited for the heat to alleviate
somewhat, then ran the sickle cutter with the
shorter pitman arm, cutting my field,
for about 2 hrs yesterday. It performed fine,
thankfully.

It teaches me not to trust anything bought at
Tractor Supply, which should change its name to
Clothing Supply, as it has precious little to do
with tractors anyway.

I took down the length of the pitman arm for
future reference , if I can't get one from a John
Deere Dealer, so I can cut an aftermarket one down
to proper size. The one from tractor supply was so
poor it didn't even have a slit cut in the other
end for accept the gear box rotating cam! I had
to cut it myself. The bolt holes weren't all in
line either. What a lousy company!

Perhaps I will keep the #5, but I doubt it, if I
can sell it. It is too finicky and demands
constant attention. A disc cutter will be much
simpler and will also slice things which would
bind a sickle cutter. True, you won't have the
advantage of an extended arm to get at things
where the tractor can't go, but that is not so
important to me. Reliability and low maintenance
are the name of the game for me.

Good luck with yours and your Farmall H. Would
like to meet you and chew the fat someday, if you
are so inclined.

Farmergeist.

mkirsch · Jul 13, 2010

I took down the length of the pitman arm for
future reference , if I can't get one from a John
Deere Dealer, so I can cut an aftermarket one down
to proper size. The one from tractor supply was so
poor it didn't even have a slit cut in the other
end for accept the gear box rotating cam! I had
to cut it myself. The bolt holes weren't all in
line either. What a lousy company!

The pitman arm was the wrong length, the bolt holes didn't line up, and it was missing the slot for the bearing plate...

When the "right" part is completely wrong, it's not the right part. How did you determine you had the "right" stick when you picked it off the shelf?

If you went by what the shelf/peg said, that was your mistake, not TSC's. Customers fondle anything and everything, and don't always put it back on the right shelf/peg.

farmergeist · Jul 13, 2010

Probably because there was only one pitman arm
available in the entire store, nor was it labeled
in any fashion as to what cutter it applied to.

Tractor Supply does not exactly go to great length
to inform the consumer, on its shelves.

They are more interested in selling clothing
apparently. By the way, the "helpful" shelfpeg,
as you call it, simply said Pitman arm.

But it teaches me a lesson about the "generic"
parts...like one size fits all socks" at TSC.

It's not TSC's mistake: It's TSC's obvious way of
marketing. Nice try, but no cigar!

mikerock · Jul 21, 2010

Lucky me, a conversation about pittmans on mowers.
I have a New Idea mower, pto driven, rope pull engages the lift.
The numbers I have are:
Serial #251
Lot # PM-130
M-134632

The M seems like a long number for a model number, so it might be a 251.

What is it?? Rather, what is the correct model number?

Now....what length is the pitman? I have an arm that matches the flywheel end bolt pattern but not the head end. I own a machine shop, so drilling and fitting is not the issue. I just need to know the length... I can if needed lay the whole thing out and pick the length so that the knife is in register at each end of the stroke, but it would be nice to have a number first.

Thanks.

Most respectfully,
Mike

mikerock · Jul 21, 2010

You have to love Google. Tractorbynet had a thread going on NI 30's, and a chap posted photos. That is what it is!!! And Balster's has pitmans for it.
Only $16.45 plus postage. Such a deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Most respectfully,
Mike Rock

Problem with Sickle Cutter Pitman Arm, (tractor= Farmall H.

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