Janicholson, would liketo ask you.......

Hi, seen you posted that youhave been using a 12v battery with 6v starter, I am guessing that you also have a 12v generator, 12v reg, and 12v starter sol. My friend has a 1949 fmrmall M and he put a 12v battery in it, however his gen is a 6v, and regulator is 6v and proably the s-sol is 6v also. can't see how a 6v generator would ever charge up a 12v battery. thinking that is why he is forever having to charge his battery.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Arlo

I posted a response to this question when you asked it in the other thread. It won't work. A 6v gen will only bring the 12v battery up to about 7.2v. There are no solenoids in letter series tractors.

(quoted from post at 11:48:14 07/21/11) I posted a response to this question when you asked it in the other thread. It won't work. A 6v gen will only bring the 12v battery up to about 7.2v. There are no solenoids in letter series tractors.

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This farmall M has a starter Solenoid. And I do agree with you about the generator. Now just have to convince him that he need to replace the generator and regulator to 12 v.

if he can find a 12v generator off an md, or any early 1960's gm 12v generator, its a direct bolt in. he can also go with a gm 12 alternator and eliminate the regulator with a 10si alt. switch the tractor to 12v negative ground, switch the coil leads and switch the leads on the ammeter.

(quoted from post at 14:48:14 07/21/11) I posted a response to this question when you asked it in the other thread. It won't work. A 6v gen will only bring the 12v battery up to about 7.2v. There are no solenoids in letter series tractors.

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A 6 volt generator can usually be made to charge a 12 volt battery. Not the best solution but will usually work. To get a 6 volt generator to charge a 12 volt battery either the regulator has to be reset for the higher voltage or use a 12 volt regulator.

If it has just a cut-out instead of a regulator , it will work at high engine RPM. Amps will be about half so it takes longer to charge up to full charge.

They aren't supposed to have a solenoid. You never know what may have happened in 50+ years. Most solenoids are rated for 24v so it won't care if it is lower.
I have had 6v gens rebuilt for 12v at the local shop. Maybe he knew it wouldn't matter because it was all about the VR and not the gen. He took my money either way. :lol:

A tractor with a 12 volt battery and no charging system or one that does not work like it should will run one for a very long time. Plus if the battery is a newer one and in very good shape it will sort of recharge it's self when not being used. I have one tractor that had a bad alternator on it and I ran it that way for years and only about every 4 month did I need to charge up the battery. That said in the long run it is cheaper to use an alternator like the Delco 10si then to go with a new generator system

I had a 1964 Ford F250 That I owned for several years. When I'd had it for 4 years the generator quit working and I brought it in to have it rebuilt - I learned it was a 6V generator that had been hooked up to a 12V system for years (no telling how long it had been that way).

Okay, until Jimbo arrives heres the deal as far as generators are concerned: Ima thinking his answer will agree with mine, we usually do !!!

A genny dont necessarily know what voltage its gonna produce, thats increased EITHER by spinning it faster OR pumping more current through its field windings and EITHER will increase its output. However they are designed within certain parameters such as how much field current they can carry without overheating or damaging the insulation etc i.e. some are designed for 6 volt others 12 volt standard operation.

THAT BEING SAID I have successfully used 6 volt gennys to charge a 12 volt battery simply by changing to a 12 volt Voltage Regulator. Im NOT saying it set the world on fire Im ONLY saying it worked. The function of the VR is to regulate charge and voltage and it regulates field current so a 12 volt VR made the 6 volt genny charge a 12 volt battery. Its true the fields may have been drawing more current then they were designed for, but remember in the design there are safety factors for certain overloading.

IT CAN WORK BUT ITS NOTTTTTTTT ENGINEERING PROPER

NEXT 12 volts on a 6 volt solenoid may overheat (although it will still work) it slightly but if its a starting solenoid its not engaged that long and it will likely last a longggggggggggg time

NEXT Ive used 12 votl son a lot of 6 volt starters NEVER a problem ALTHOUGH it can be a bit tougher on starter drives

John T

True, a 6 volt genny and a 6 volt Voltage Regulator wont properly charge a 12 volt battery butttttttttttttttttttt a 6 volt genny and a 12 volt VR can!!!!!!! See my post above to explain why/how, Ive done it successfully......

John T

My 240U had been changed to a 12v system with a one wire alternator and no VR. It charges okay, but my problem was with the starter. The problem is the 6v. starter would spin too fast before engaging the ring on the flywheel. This caused it to chew up the starter gear and to a lesser extent, the flywheel ring gear. When the starter finally quit and I had it re-built, the mechanic replaced the field coil in the starter with a 12v. coil.... never worked better than it does now.

And that's why I like Mags!

Cranking is great exercise even if the impulse doesn't always work.

Hand cranking with an impulse coupler not working can be a dangerous experience. The impulse coupler is what retards the spark so that it will not kick back against the crank when it fires.

with respect. The impulse coupling allows it to make spark at near 0 rpm. Hand cranking (in almost every case) will not produce a spark W/O an impulse in operation. A mag used as a distributor with a defective impulse will break your arm. A mag with hand retard mechanism (early IH and others) will spark at the advanced setting making kickback. a impulse based mag with timing retard built in when the timing is set wrong, will do it as well. Jim.

It will work, as John T explains. If you want lights and/or shut it off and restart often, it will not charge enough to be happy. My advice is to use a 12v Delco generator and matching 12v regulator to make it appear stock, and work as well as aa generator can. 12v generators were used in the 60s, and on diesels from the late 40s. I have no originality bones to pick, so I convert to Hitachi alternators with the 3 wire setup, and an idiot light, volt meter, and amp meter. Jim

If the impulse assembly isnt working THERES NO WORRY ABOUT HAND CRANK STARTING BECAUSE AT SUCH SLOW CRANKING SPEED THERES NOT GONNA BE SUFFICIENT SPARK.

The reason why its needed on magneto equipped hand start tractors is because theres practically no spark energy created when cranking soooooooo slowwwwwwwwww... Sooooooo what it does is wind up then trip a spring so the magnetic rotor spins fast past the coil SO THERE IS A GOOD SPARK. Then once running over 250 RPM the assembly drops out altogether i.e. no more spring wind up and tripping.....

When the impulse assembly is working the static start timing is 20 to 30 degrees lagging from the run time advance, i.e. she fires right near TDC so theres no kickback. Again if its not working (no spring wind up and trip) then theres NOT gonna be any spark at the wrong time to worry about

Hope this helps

John T

(quoted from post at 10:32:42 07/22/11) If the impulse assembly isnt working THERES NO WORRY ABOUT HAND CRANK STARTING BECAUSE AT SUCH SLOW CRANKING SPEED THERES NOT GONNA BE SUFFICIENT SPARK.

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Have to disagree with you on this. You are making 2 potentially dangerous assumptions. One is that a failed impulse coupling is going to completely fail to total nonfunction. The other is that hand cranking speed is always to slow to produce any spark.

A properly functioning impulse coupling will produce a uniform, loud click as each cylinder reaches the proper position. If it doesn't do that, DON"T HAND CRANK IT! When they are not working right, they can behave erratically, possibly latching in then tripping early. early tripping will produce an early, although somewhat weak, spark. This can definitely produce a kickback.

That is just one hazardous scenario with a non-working coupling. There are others.

A properly maintained 6 volt system will work just as well as a 12 volt system. Why go through all the time and trouble to switch to 12v when you could just fix the 6v system you have?

(quoted from post at 16:07:51 07/22/11) A properly maintained 6 volt system will work just as well as a 12 volt system. Why go through all the time and trouble to switch to 12v when you could just fix the 6v system you have?

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dansuper 27.. That is what I wanted him to do. just put a new 6v battery in and it would work, But he was told that a 12v battery would turn it over faster. can't seem to get him convinced other wise. if a 6v is wired properly and everything working, they work fine. I feel that I hve already fixed his problem by taking the starter apart and cleaning it up. I had some rust on the armature, emery cloth cleaned it up nice, and cleaned the frameand starter where they mate. I am thinking it had poor mating ground. thanks for everyons input. Arlo