Hytran

CNKS · Jul 27, 2011

Someone who KNOWS please answer this question. My 460 has gear clash when the oil warms up. Reason for this is slop in the linkage which prevents the clutch from disengaging fully. Logical answer is to replace all the linkage--easier said than done. The question: I am using generic HyTran. I would like to go to a heavier trans/hydraulic fluid to slow the gears down after pressing in the clutch. Today I have read that Hytran is equivalent to 10 wt, 20 wt, and 30 wt. I have also read that Hytran is 30, the generic versions are 10 -- I don't think those people know what they are talking about. I have always thought 10 was the number. SO, I am looking for a 20 wt viscosity equivalent trans/hyd fluid, haven't found it yet. What is the SAE equivalent viscosity of HyTran?? -- please NO guessing.

rustred · Jul 27, 2011

not to discourage you, but i dont think there will be any significant change that you will notice from 10w to 30w as for slowing gears. maybe try adding some lucas oil stabilizer or stp to the system. i believe the problem is right with the clutch itself either dirty splines or oil on the disc causing it to drag. my 660 shifted beautiful till one day the batts were dead and like a dumb a-s i pulled it till it started. now the damm thing grinds like crazy and just dont feel like the clutch is releasing. so i guess i will split it and check it out.

rhtx55 · Jul 27, 2011

Do you have enough free play left in the clutch adjustment to adjust the stop bolt a bit to give more pedal travel?
A 1/4 in or so may be enough for it to release fully when the clutch pedal is fully depressed.
Have you thought about possibly drilling out the holes in part of the linkage & use the next size larger pin, or a bronze bushing and original pin to take up the slack?

CNKS · Jul 27, 2011

It may not make any difference, but I need to fix some leaks and would like to try a heavier oil. The clutch is new, everything except the clutch clearance, including the TA, is correct. I did all this about 3 years ago was unable to fix the problem. I still do not have an answer to my question, but I knew a bunch of other stuff would be thrown in.

CNKS · Jul 27, 2011

The main problem is in the clutch housing, I'm not in the mood to split it again. I don't need more travel, I need less. There is enough slop in the linkage to cause too much play in the pedal. I have been through all this more than once, I know what it needs, I just don't want to split it again. I have other things I want to do first. ALL I want is the viscosity of Hytran -- I knew I would get comments that don't answer my question.

sflem849 · Jul 27, 2011

I support using hytran in the hydraulic system and you know it. I can't say that I know what weight it is. In some Google action I found that JDs stuff is "thicker" than CNHs stuff. It appears that Viscocity Oil Company makes CNHs oils for them. They have a ton of data with full specs. I have included a link to their website so you can do a little more research. I never found a supposed SAE weight for any of the hydraulic oils, but they do have viscocity measurements at certain temps. Good Luck!

ps - I would at least try and fix the easy worn spots. :lol: Like you said, easier said than done. My MD has a CRAZY amount of slop in the throttle, but I haven't found the time/ambition/talent/money to fix it (right)

www.viscocityoil.com

colekicker · Jul 27, 2011

You are correct! You will also not find an SAE standard for hydraulic
oil because there is not an SAE standard.

CNKS · Jul 27, 2011

I have seen one in a can in some store, maybe even Walmart, but since Walmart doesn't consistently carry anything it's not there anymore. It's not an SAE standard as such, I should not have used that term, but an equivalent. One bulk supplier said they had 10 wt and 30 wt, but not 20. So that notation is used.

CNKS · Jul 27, 2011

Your link doesn't work, although I have seen that site -- haven't figured out how their terminology compares to actual viscosity.

sflem849 · Jul 27, 2011

(quoted from post at 17:43:37 07/27/11) Your link doesn't work, although I have seen that site -- haven't figured out how their terminology compares to actual viscosity.

Seems pretty official. There is a lot of Case only terminology on the site and they cover about every fluid. They must make it for CNH. I would guess you just have to compare the numbers against each other.

I did find some wts given by people during my search, but nothing official (by a company or other credible source)

pete 23 · Jul 27, 2011

Hy tran is a multi weight oil, always has been. There were two different weights available , however, I never saw any dealer carry the lighter weight and we did not at the dealership I worked for 40 years. The normal one we carried was about like a 10W-30 oil according to the Viscosity oil company that blended the oil. I don't know of any heavier weight hyd trans oil but there could be some.
As far as the clutch, yes, they can be tough to get a quick release with that TA planet so easy to keep right on turning and also the pto shaft running inside of the transmission tends to carry the motion. One thing I have done a lot on tractors using the four pad disc with seperate fins, not one solid circle, is to bend the pads just a trifle so they spring away from the flywheel upon clutch release. Only takes about .030 at the tip of each pad. I also adjust a lot of clutch fingers from underneath to get them all very close to the same. It is amazing how you can adjust a pressure plate on the clutch adjusting stand and then bolt it down to flywheel and get different readings. Even a pilot bearing that is stiff can give you problems as well as you are aware I am sure the splines and proper lube on them. No two clutchs ever work exactly the same on same model tractor new or repaired. Most are close of course but never exactly alike.

CNKS · Jul 27, 2011

Thanks, thats what I wanted to know. I think the Universal trans/hyd fluids I have used are equivalent to SAE 10. Then when hot it is thinner. Hytran should get thicker. I may bite the bullet and pay 2X as much for Hytran as the other stuff. The clutch works ok when the oil is cold or even warm, I usually wait 10 sec before the initial shift. Probably takes 30 or more when it is hot.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 27, 2011

Hytran was started out as 10W, it has a lot of additives such as non foaming for hydraulics, zinc antiwear for hydrostatic drive, polymers to make it 10W30, for your tractor nothing is wrong with anybodys generic oil, at one time Deeres had same only with brake additive, if you had a new or hydrostatic tractor I wouldnt gamble on any but CNH Hytran, like my old shop foreman would say, "its not the type but the lack of it that causes problems."

rhtx55 · Jul 27, 2011

It's multiviscosity SAE 5w30 with the usual additives for hydraulic applications. I hope changing the oil helps, but since it's a multi-viscosity oil to begin with, I doubt you will see much difference.
" If you have time to do it twice, you had time to do it right the first time."

sflem849 · Jul 28, 2011

(quoted from post at 18:36:47 07/27/11) Hy tran is a multi weight oil, always has been. There were two different weights available , however, I never saw any dealer carry the lighter weight and we did not at the dealership I worked for 40 years. The normal one we carried was about like a 10W-30 oil according to the Viscosity oil company that blended the oil. I don't know of any heavier weight hyd trans oil but there could be some...

Deere uses the two different viscocities. They have a HyGuard and HyGuard LowVis. The only reason I know is you have to use the LowVis in the rear end of the garden tractors.

CNKS · Jul 28, 2011

My point is, I think my current oil is straight 10W. There are some mulitivis generics but I don't think mine is. IF it is 10W, then it gets thinner and causes gear clash as it warms up. It shifts fine when cold. Multivis, particularly if it is 10w30 gets THICKER as it warms up. So, the gear clash should be reduced. I won't know until I try it. Not sure I want to shell out $160 for 10 gal Hytran right now, as I won't need the tractor for a while. You are correct that the 460 era tractors can use about anything IF everything is working right, which my 460 isn't. Also HyTran will hold 1% water. That doesn't sound like much, but it probably helps.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 28, 2011

Not sure that gear clash is oil caused, clutch certainly cant aggravate gear noise, I would suspect a marginal or failing bearing, lot of ball bearings in the transmission & final drives.

robgIN · Jul 28, 2011

no oil gets thicker when it warms up. 10w30 oil starts out as 10w oil with and additive package to make it perform like a 30w oil at temperature. put a quart of each in the fridge and pour and then put a quart of each out in the hot sun or heat it up and pour it.If you want a thicker oil the first number has to be higher or use a straight weight that is higher.

CNKS · Jul 28, 2011

I wouldn't know. All I want is for it to act like 30 wt when it is hot.

CNKS · Jul 28, 2011

Nope, the 10W loses viscosity when it warms up. Bearings, etc are ok.

pete 23 · Jul 28, 2011

Something else one has to consider in oil viscosity is the range of any given number. A 10W has to fall within a given range when measured at specific temp. W stands for winter so it means the flow is tested at a low temp. Not sure if it is zero degrees f or 32 degrees f. The range can be quite wide so some 10 weight oils may be very close to a 5 weight oil and some may be very close to a 20 weight oil but they are within the specified range for 10. That is also why a 10W 30 oil may be thinner at operating temp than a straight 30 or even visversa, thicker. All depends on the base stock it started at and the viscosity index improvers etc that are added during blending. It is measured in time it takes for a given amount of oil to flow through a specific sized orfice.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 28, 2011

The manual says 10w non detergent with an additive from caseih. 1 quart of additive to every 5 gallon of 10w oil. I just serviced my 450 and used a generic Ih HyTran with 1 gallon of Lucas Hydraulic fluid. My CaseIH dealer said HyTran is the same weight as 10w oil but it has some additives that 10w doesn't have.

dansuper27 · Jul 29, 2011

Didn't Lucas have an additive that made the oil sticky? You used to see the display with the hand crank and plastic gears with clear plexiglass. One side had plain oil and the other had the additive and you could see where the oil clung to the gears better. That may be what you are looking for as that would add friction to the gear set.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 29, 2011

dansuper27 If you get some free time go to Lucas oil.com and go to products. It tells about all their differant products and how they work.I put 14 gallon of generic IH Hy-Tran and 1 gallon of Lucas universal hydraulic fluid in trans.-rear end of farmall 450.I have only put 2 hours since oil change and it shifts smoother than it did before change. Lucas is a little thicker than Hy-Trans oil.

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