Spark but no Spark

Livin the Dream · Jul 31, 2011

Ok here's the deal. I have fantastic spark when I take a wire from the mag coil and go direct to the plugs....each cylinder has fired off. But I have no spark with the wires off the distributor cap. The wires are all good I have switched back and forth using different wires to make sure. The distributor cap is new, the rotor is new, the points are new, the condenser is new. Possible to be the shortest of the wires the wire between coil and cap or could this be bad points?

So close to going.... can taste it!

Bob · Jul 31, 2011

Have you "timed" the rotor?

teddy52food · Jul 31, 2011

Bob nailed it.

Janicholson · Jul 31, 2011

To do as Bob indicates, there are timing marks on the rotor gears that position the rotor correctly in relationship to the plug terminal. They are obscure, but cannot be out of time. Jim

CNKS · Jul 31, 2011

I don't remember the details of your previous posts, but to add to what Bob says: Put #1 on the compression stroke at TDC. Remove the mag and turn the rotor clockwise, viewed from the rear, until you feel resistance when pointing to #1 on the cap. Carefully reinstall the mag without disturbing the rotor. Replace the mag cap and rotate the mag toward the engine until the coil touches the block. Remove the coil wire from the cap and hold about 1/8 inch from the screw/nut on the mag, rotate the mag clockwise until you get a spark. If this does not work, the gears in the mag are probably not aligned, or you have some other problem.

Tom Fleming · Jul 31, 2011

yeah, what everyone else said.

Bob · Jul 31, 2011

... can be found in the Blue Ribbon Service Manual at this link...

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-5035%20Service%20Manual%20Magnetos/index.html

Livin the Dream · Jul 31, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:52:44 07/31/11) ... can be found in the Blue Ribbon Service Manual at this link...

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-5035%20Service%20Manual%20Magnetos/index.html

Ok thanks everyone I will try timing the rotor...did not know that the rotor had special timing. I did know about having the rotor pointing to #1 cylinder. Question thou, if I have the rotor pointing to #1 on the cap when the mag fires doesn't it snap over and end up pointing to the next wire on the cap which would be #3? That is what has been baffling me. I thought I would have to have it lined up more or less at 11 o'clock so when the mag snaps over it is pointing to #1 cylinder? Thanks again I will try.... Is there a certain page in the manuel above that indicates these instructions because when I copied the above http it came up with a ton of pages?.....thanks again everyone.

Livin the Dream · Jul 31, 2011

I already have fantastic spark from the coil to the plugs....nice big blue arch....really nice.

Unless I'm missing something else....and I certainly could be.

CNKS · Jul 31, 2011

BUT, you said you were using the coil wire. The mag will always give a spark, the question is when -- you need to set the timing at #1 TDC.

CNKS · Jul 31, 2011

You need to read what Bob gave you. I don't know the page number because I don't have that particular manual. The info is also in the Operators manual, if you don't have one, you need it. You set the rotor to point at #1 BEFORE it snaps, not after. I don't think it will go all the way to #3 unless the engine is running, I have never checked that. If it would start before you had the mag out (if you had it out), you need to start over and follow the instructions in the manual that Bob gave the link for or the Operator's manual.

teddy52food · Jul 31, 2011

Gas engine is timed on the C mark, diesel on the A.

Livin the Dream · Jul 31, 2011

Sorry guys, this tractor has not ran in over 40 years. I have the manual and have set the rotor at the #1 cylinder....still no go. I guess what baffles me is why I don't get any spark out of the cap wires.....is this the timing thing that you guys keep telling me? Wouldn't I still get some type of spark, but with timing off it wouldn't start correctly? I wish you were all here in my garage tonight.... I know she would fire up for you guys.

Discouraged!

Livin the Dream · Jul 31, 2011

I found the pages that refer to a H4 mag which is what is in my Super A. I will read them carefully. I thank you all for your patience and hopefully I can get this baby running. Thanks again for all the help. Watch for more updates and news.....

:wink:

Janicholson · Aug 1, 2011

Timing is a little complex on a mag.
There are four things affecting the timing.
1]Gears in the front engine case (probably correct)
2]Position of the mag on its mount to the engine (adjustable to have the click of the impulse coupling happen at TDC)
3] The impulse coupling and mag drive (sets retard timing for starting (click) then goes to full advance for running the tractor)
4]Rotor gears in the inside of the mag.
(aligns the rotor with the correct spark plug wire terminal) (your issue)
The rotor must be timed to the internal mag shaft gears. It is hidden where the points are located. On autos the distributor cam shaft and rotor are usually concentric with the input shaft inside and below the breaker plate.
on this mag, the rotor is offset with gears. The rotor is not timed visually, it is timed by the marks on these little gears.
It must be ahead of the plug terminal such that when it fires the impulse, that it turns just in time to direct the spark as the spark is generated. Jim

Livin the Dream · Aug 10, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:52:44 07/31/11) ... can be found in the Blue Ribbon Service Manual at this link...

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-5035%20Service%20Manual%20Magnetos/index.html

To "Bob" and all the other individuals that sent me info on my Super A, THANKS TO ALL Tuesday afternoon Aug 9th, 2011 my tractor started. This tractor has sat in the woods for at least the last 30yrs and probably more like the last 40yrs. I pulled it home just a little over a month ago and have been slowly working and cleaning and scraping and cleaning and trying to get her started, finally with the help of "Bobs" magneto info and the 10 pages of info I was able to time my rotor and TADAAAA it started. Thank you all again so much. I will be posting pictures as I get her looking more like she should.

I am attaching the picture I took the day I draged her out of the woods.

Owen Aaland · Aug 10, 2011

To check for timing of the rotor with a magneto with impulse coupler turn the engine backwards to the number one firing position. That takes the impulse coupler out of the equation.

RTR · Aug 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:07:43 08/11/11) To check for timing of the rotor with a magneto with impulse coupler turn the engine backwards to the number one firing position. That takes the impulse coupler out of the equation.

How does it run?? Was the engine stuck after sitting for so long? Hopefully you took a video of the monumental occasion of starting the tractor after 40 years.

Livin the Dream · Aug 12, 2011

How does it run.....actually I was shocked it runs fantastic. I had been working with the mag and it was firing and firing but just wouldn't start. I made one more adjustment and it poped (started) so quick it startled me. Plus the throtle was almost wide open and so she was rippen, which is exactly what you don't want the first time it runs in over forty years....so I slamed the choke in and it died which was fine....I needed to find out why she was wide open and start it up again.

As for the video......I'm ashamed no video of the first start... I was home alone and was simply elated and had no one to share....but within a few moments I was calling everyone.... much work yet to do...but thrilled to have it running

Spark but no Spark

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