hey janicholson

glennster · Jul 7, 2012

howdy jim, kinda ot electrical question for you. had a submersible well pump replaced, 3/4 hp 220v. only has 2 hot leads going to the pump. no ground, no neutral. sch 80 plastic pipe from pitless adapter to well pump. well guy said you dont need a neutral or ground. water does it. after all the education from john t, yourself and b+d, somehow this just dont look right. what am i missing???

Janicholson · Jul 7, 2012

The use of 220 single phase for powering pumps and welders (and water heaters for that matter) does not '''need''' the neutral. the 220 is across the two hot leads only. The ground is thus not used (and the well man is correct, well water is always mineralized and very conductive right to the water in that casing. Even plastic casing with entry holes or a screen section has way enough ""ground"".) At the controls (pressure regulators and circuit protection (today) there is Ground Fault protection. It is also well covered and terminals are internal to avoid shock risk.
I had a 500 foot well (depth of casing) with water at 425' it also was 2 wire. The expense of an additional strand of copper is not needed, at least in Montana where that well was located.
450 feet if plastic pipe is sure a pile!!! Jim

John G. Hasler · Jul 7, 2012

Janicholson writes:
> The ground is thus not used (and the well man is
> correct, well water is always mineralized and
> very conductive right to the water in that
> casing. Even plastic casing with entry holes or
> a screen section has way enough ""ground"".)

Well drillers are not electricians, let alone electrical engineers.

While potable water is conductive enough to give you a shock it is not conductive enough to provide an adequate safety ground. You could have a dead short from the pump case to one side of the line and not trip the breaker. I have measured 110VAC from the stub sticking out of the top of a well to the casing (steel pipe, not plastic). The gaskets on the pitless adapter insulated it from the casing and rust insulate the pipe where it came through the cap.

Run a green wire up from your pump and connect it to the steel casing or to your system ground. This will provide a solid safety ground and also help protect your pump against lightning.

Janicholson · Jul 7, 2012

Tying the neutral to the top of the casing is a good idea. Code is code, do it as directed by code. None I have seen had 3 wires to the pump. Jim

John G. Hasler · Jul 8, 2012

Janicholson writes:
> Tying the neutral to the top of the casing is a
> good idea.

No, _not_ the neutral. That should be connected to ground only at the service entrance. The green ground wire should be connected to the well casing. The pump frame should also be connected to the green wire as it is not reliably connected to the casing. If the pipe the water comes up is metal connecting it to the green wire is good enough (don't assume that it will be electrically be connected to the casing). If the pipe is plastic you should run a green (or bare) ground wire down to the pump.

Peculiar Farmer · Jul 8, 2012

I worked for a small company years ago that did electrical and outdoor plumbing. We hung many submersible pumps. one in particular over 500ft deep on 160psi black plastic pipe. The only time we installed three wires was on pumps that had a control box with relay and capacitors above ground and required three wires to the motor. We did tape the wires to the pipe quite often and used plastic torque stops at varying intervals up the pipe to keep everything from rubbing against the side of the well. I replaced several that were tripping breakers and if a grounded one didn't, I would think it would have to reflect a faulty ground at the electrical panel.

Janicholson · Jul 9, 2012

You are correct. I ment ground, Late night I guess. If plastic pitless adapter, and plastic casing, I would go with a ground rod. But local codes drive all decisions. Jim

hey janicholson

glennster

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