A friend of mine has a farmall M and it runs great untill he starts moving and then it dies. He has talked to 3 different mechanics and they cant figure it out.... I was hoping if someone in here can help me!!! He has changed the oil and filter, drained the gas tank and put new gas in it, drained and changed the antifreeze, put a new battery in it... He also thought there might be a crack in the head gasket so he put a product called ceramic seal so fix that but it still is giving him issues. Can someone help us? Any help is apprieciated.. Thanks
- Thread starter TiffanyM
- Start date
I assume it WAS running good at one point - what, if anything was changed between then and now?
Any "fixes" done? New parts installed? adjustments made?
In the unlikely but free to test category - make sure the brakes are off. Tow it slowly and see if they're working ok - and not seized up. While doing that might as well put it in gear with clutch in - make sure there's not something weird going on in the drive train, putting the engine under stress.
Assuming that works - my first guess would be that perhaps it's running a too lean. No harm in richening it up to test. (or perhpas already too rich and needs to be leaned out - but i'd guess the other way around)
Then I'd check the spark. Not all sparks are created equal - make sure you're getting a solid 1/4" blue spark. on each wire.
Try running it choked - see if that makes a difference - if so you know it's fuel flow relate.
I'd also think about the governor. Perhaps it's not opening the throttle (enough) when under load.
After that I'd start wondering about ignition timing.
Any "fixes" done? New parts installed? adjustments made?
In the unlikely but free to test category - make sure the brakes are off. Tow it slowly and see if they're working ok - and not seized up. While doing that might as well put it in gear with clutch in - make sure there's not something weird going on in the drive train, putting the engine under stress.
Assuming that works - my first guess would be that perhaps it's running a too lean. No harm in richening it up to test. (or perhpas already too rich and needs to be leaned out - but i'd guess the other way around)
Then I'd check the spark. Not all sparks are created equal - make sure you're getting a solid 1/4" blue spark. on each wire.
Try running it choked - see if that makes a difference - if so you know it's fuel flow relate.
I'd also think about the governor. Perhaps it's not opening the throttle (enough) when under load.
After that I'd start wondering about ignition timing.
he has checked the spark plugs and they are fine. He has also checked the fuel filter and changed that as well. he just put a new started on it as well. But thanks i think i will tell him about the ignition timing i dont think that he has even thought of that. Thank you very much i will let you know if it works...
teddy52food
Well-known Member
Loose wire cutting off the ign?
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
A person can look at the wiring all day long for a year and never see a problem with it since you can not see the zap-u-tron with your eyes. Try a hot wire from the batter to the coil. If that fixes it then you know something is wrong wire the wiring. If it does not fix it then move to the carb. One set wrong can do that as in to rich or to lean or the govanor not set correctly. Or it could just plan be a tired engine that is very low on compression so it is to weak to pull it's self
Nebraska Cowman
Well-known Member
We had a 9N Ford that always displayed those symptoms whenever it was time to change the ignition points. And it would be running perfect one day and not at all the next. Change the points and all was good again. "runs but has no power to pull itself"? Yeah, it's either ignition or fuel. Check simple things first.
Paul Shuler
Member
This may not be your problem but I see you mentioned that it has a fuel filter. These old tractors never came with a fuel filter in the line. I have seen many times on here where even a brand new fuel filter restricted the fuel flow too much. Might try and run it without the fuel filter.
Paul Shuler
Paul Shuler
Janicholson
Well-known Member
If when the tractor is sitting still and running at idle the operator pulls open the throttle very rapidly, it dies, I suspect carburation problems with the power curcuit. (main jet and passages, and the load richness control screw (bottom front of bowl. 4 to 4.5 turns out is about a good starting point from gently screwed in all the way, do not tighten it, it is a valve). If it runs up to speed easily the issue might be electrical.
Putting a test light on the supply to the coil (lit when the switch is in the run position should stay lit when trying to move the tractor. If it goes out when the tractor quits, it is supply voltage. If it stays lit and good brightness, the issue could be a short to ground in the distributor. Jim
Putting a test light on the supply to the coil (lit when the switch is in the run position should stay lit when trying to move the tractor. If it goes out when the tractor quits, it is supply voltage. If it stays lit and good brightness, the issue could be a short to ground in the distributor. Jim
You don't actually say if it "lugs down" or suddenly just dies. If it lugs down, you may have a problen in the drive train, otherwise, as mentioned, it has to be an ignition or fuel problem. Another thing, does it re-start right away and act the same, or do you have to wait a while to start? Some of the things you did, like change oil and anti-freeze would not help.
Does the fuel run through the line to the carburator without a problem... sometimes there is something that will move around in the tank and block off the outlet.
Funny personal story about idling forever, but not moving... pulled out of the drive about 2 weeks ago with my wife's Lincoln LS and it dies almost immediately. Restarted right away and did the same thing. Finally got it towed to the dealer and they found the air cleaner cover was loose and a big bug had gotten smashed on the mass air sensor and caused the problem. Don't think that would be the case here however. :lol:
Does the fuel run through the line to the carburator without a problem... sometimes there is something that will move around in the tank and block off the outlet.
Funny personal story about idling forever, but not moving... pulled out of the drive about 2 weeks ago with my wife's Lincoln LS and it dies almost immediately. Restarted right away and did the same thing. Finally got it towed to the dealer and they found the air cleaner cover was loose and a big bug had gotten smashed on the mass air sensor and caused the problem. Don't think that would be the case here however. :lol:
Wayne in MN
Well-known Member
Will the tractor roll if pushed? Brake bands may be rusted to the drums.
Will the engine continue to run if neutral is selected and the clutch released? If so, the transmission is not in 2 gears at once.
Run the engine at wide open throttle and turn the high speed mixture screw (bottom one) out until the engine smokes and in until it begins to cut out; set to the midpoint + 1/2 turn out for power.
Will the engine continue to run if neutral is selected and the clutch released? If so, the transmission is not in 2 gears at once.
Run the engine at wide open throttle and turn the high speed mixture screw (bottom one) out until the engine smokes and in until it begins to cut out; set to the midpoint + 1/2 turn out for power.
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
He's not talking to mechanics.
Allan
Allan
Tiffany, Bad Mag! I have seen Irrigation Well engines fire up and Idles just as pretty as you please. But start advancing the throttle under load and the engine just falls on it's face, You haven't said if the tractor has a Magneto or a Distributor ignition system....My suggestion is a bad Mag. if it is,,, It needs to be reworked at a local Auto-Electric Shop!
Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.
Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.
James Williams
Well-known Member
Go get 3 more mechanics
jimmy
Ive read a lot of articles here in the last 10-12 years,and I dont concider myself a Mechanic,but it dont take much of a mechanic to work on these old tractors.I heard people talk about manuals but these tractors are so simple and the manuals are so vague I dont know if there worth the money
jimmy
Ive read a lot of articles here in the last 10-12 years,and I dont concider myself a Mechanic,but it dont take much of a mechanic to work on these old tractors.I heard people talk about manuals but these tractors are so simple and the manuals are so vague I dont know if there worth the money
For future reference:
1. Changing the oil and filter won't fix anything. If the oil/filter are so bad that they are causing problems, it is TOO LATE to change the oil and filter.
2. Changing the antifreeze won't fix anything. If the antifreeze is so bad that it is causing problems, it is TOO LATE to change the antifreeze.
3. Most of the time, changing fuel won't fix anything. These old tractors will run on pretty much anything combustible.
99.9% of running problems can be traced back to the carburetor or the ignition system.
These so-called mechanics your friend hired were probably young guys right? Most of these guys have never even seen a gasoline-powered tractor. All they know how to do is hook a computer to their modern diesel-powered tractors, read a code, and swap whatever part the code says to swap. Magnetos, distributors? Forget about it. Real life troubleshooting? Forget it.
1. Changing the oil and filter won't fix anything. If the oil/filter are so bad that they are causing problems, it is TOO LATE to change the oil and filter.
2. Changing the antifreeze won't fix anything. If the antifreeze is so bad that it is causing problems, it is TOO LATE to change the antifreeze.
3. Most of the time, changing fuel won't fix anything. These old tractors will run on pretty much anything combustible.
99.9% of running problems can be traced back to the carburetor or the ignition system.
These so-called mechanics your friend hired were probably young guys right? Most of these guys have never even seen a gasoline-powered tractor. All they know how to do is hook a computer to their modern diesel-powered tractors, read a code, and swap whatever part the code says to swap. Magnetos, distributors? Forget about it. Real life troubleshooting? Forget it.
Rumplestiltskin
Member
Just as a troubleshooting approach, I would put an ignition timing light on any of the spark plug wires and watch its behavior as the engine stalls. If it's evident that the spark is vanishing just before the engine RPM drop, then check all the wiring and switches again. If spark is still present after the RPM start to drop, it's >probably< not an ignition problem.
You said the wiring had been "looked at," but that won't necessarily turn up a problem. Every now and then a wire will corrode and/or break inside the insulation and out of sight. The slightest bit of flexing (like a tractor trying to move) can allow the wire to shift position ever so slightly -- and fail. Then, at rest, the wire can return to its previous position and conduct just barely well enough to fool you. The same thing can happen inside a switch due to wear, dirt, moisture, oil, etc.
Anyway, if the spark is vanishing, I would follow janicholson's recommendation regarding the test light (this is different than a timing light), and temporarily bypass any suspect wires and switches using known good parts just to make sure there are no hidden problems.
It's a long shot, granted, but this situation disabled my daughter's truck this year and it was a bugger to figure out!
Best Regards,
Mark W. in MI
You said the wiring had been "looked at," but that won't necessarily turn up a problem. Every now and then a wire will corrode and/or break inside the insulation and out of sight. The slightest bit of flexing (like a tractor trying to move) can allow the wire to shift position ever so slightly -- and fail. Then, at rest, the wire can return to its previous position and conduct just barely well enough to fool you. The same thing can happen inside a switch due to wear, dirt, moisture, oil, etc.
Anyway, if the spark is vanishing, I would follow janicholson's recommendation regarding the test light (this is different than a timing light), and temporarily bypass any suspect wires and switches using known good parts just to make sure there are no hidden problems.
It's a long shot, granted, but this situation disabled my daughter's truck this year and it was a bugger to figure out!
Best Regards,
Mark W. in MI
Well, That's part of the problem right there. I don't know the mechanics he's talked to, but in my expirence, When I've had a question, and asked a mechanic at my local Case IH dealer, He just laughs and says he hasn't worked on one of those in years. It only took twice asking him until I got the hint that he knew what was going on, just didn't want to help a guy. The best advice I can give is talk to a local guy who works on mostly antiques. There's got to be someone nearby who can help. I'd try to help, but I need to be standing in front of a machine to figure out it's problems. Any advice I could give has already been suggested by others. Good Luck! -Andy
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