460 with missing serial number plate

This is for Pete 23, or anybody else whose memory is good enough to know about the re-fitting program that IH did when the 460's and 560's came out. I just bought a 1959 460, I know that because that is the date on the LP tank, but trouble is, I don't know anything else about it as far as history. The plate is missing that has the serial number, and so I don't know whether it has been upgraded the way they did back in the day, because of course, there is no ID plate to look at for the "X" mark that it had been upgraded. Pete 23, you said that you did some of those early upgrades...do you have any suggestions for finding out if mine was upgraded? (I mean like things I can look for inside the rear end.) The transmission shifts fine, I just want to know what I'm sittin' on top of when I run it. Thanks, Hugh (anybody else that knows the answer, feel free to jump in).

If it has been updated your good to go. If it has not been updated I think your still good to go.

If it lasted this long at normal use my guess is your not going to hurt it either.

If your going to hook it to a plow for 8 hours a day I may be worried if not I wouldn"t worry.

Besides that tank may be older than the rest of the tractor.

It is not unusual to buy a new LP tank with a data tag that is 1 or 2 years old because the tank has been sitting around for a year or two before it was put into service.

Gary

Supposed to be marked something like a triangle.
Before going farther and just to make sure, are you looking on right side of the clutch housing or same side as the brake pedals for the serial plate?

Here's how you figure out if it has been "upgraded:"

If the tractor is there in front of you, running and driving, it has been upgraded.

If the tractor resembles a Harbor Freight drill press, it has NOT been upgraded. (For those who don't get the joke, the tractors that were not upgraded failed long ago and have long since been scrapped, and are now Chinese pig iron tools.)

BTW, just because the tractor was upgraded does not necessarily mean that there is a triangle stamp on the serial number plate. So even if you had the plate with no stamp, it is still overwhelmingly likely that it has been fixed.

My 460 is a 59, it has a v shaped mark that looks like it was made with a very small chisel.

Agreed. Even if it wasn't upgraded if it has run 50 years without it I have to question if it was really needed.

Yes, I actually did look in that location. I don"t see any sign of rivets broken off either. Thanks to all of you for your input, Hugh

When I first started working at a SW Iowa IH dealer in June of 1960 I hauled the updates in a pickup from Omaha IH warehouse. They were in a large & heavy wood crate. The 460 got new bull gears & brake pinion shafts, some bearings for various places in rear axles, transmission & differential. When completed the mechanic was to make a triangle stamp on the serial number plate. I can tell you if the rear end is apart it is easy to identify the bull gears by the 25% pressure angle of the gear tooth. Otherwise I can think of no easy way to id the upgrade from outside.

So, the upgraded bull gears have a 25 degree pressure angle...the non-upgraded were
significantly less than or greater than 25 degrees off of horizontal? Thanks, Hugh

I forgot that original gear was a 20% pressure angle, the gear id began with a 36----R?, the new were 37----R?. The tips were not as blunt as the older part. Hope this helps.

Okay in 1959 starting at serial number Farmall 11676 they came with the parts in the bull and pinion gears and the differential and differential carrier update. They wouldn't be marked on the serial tag for tractors over the 117676 serial tag if there was one. If you want to check for the changeover or from factory.
Pull one of the brake drums and the bull pinion retainer. Look for a number on the bull pinion retainer or the differential carrier housing starting with 374. If 374 its the later parts.

I'll, do that, that's a lot of help, Thanks!

It does indeed!

I will add to what Slater said as he know these tractors. By pulling the brake and plate behind it(it pops right off) you can see the bull pinion, bull gear and also the differential bearings. The original 460's had ball bearings on differential and the change was to tapered roller bearings. Easy to see that. Bull pinion bearing were changed to heavier duty ball bearings. Several upgrades were done after the initial change such as a tapered shim on the right side of differential. If there is an extended tab on one of the shims it is visible without taking anything apart. Then you know it has at least some of the very latest up grades. Also, the bull pinion bearing was changed to Bower, two piece flat roller bearings. That was not in original change over. Then you can throw in a lubrication tube that you can see the holes drilled in the bull pinion, differential bearing carriers for extra lube onto the bearings.
All that being said, there are still 460's running around without the original change over. No different than a 350 that has never been pulled hard. The ones that were pulled hard tore up the changed over ones also, just took a little longer. A look at the bull gears and bull pinion will tell you how hard it has been worked.

Now I'm _really_ proud of my little HF drill press! (mainly because I scored it off the clearance aisle for 45 bucks; former display model)

Tomorrow I'll go paint it Red.

That's a big help, pete23, thanks. Hugh

Hugh, Looked at a extra bull pinion shaft retainer to refresh my memory. If its like the one I have the 374???R1 number is in the area between where the inside brake disc contacts and the edge of the plate. Don't even have to remove the bull pinion gear retainer to see the number.

I"ve been working a lot of hours this month, so I haven"t had a chance to turn any wrenches to check this stuff, but that will be the first thing that I check out; thanks again, Hugh.