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Overheating H

R

Redturbo

Member
Couple years ago Dad & myself picked up a H in southwestern Minnesota. It has a 6ft belly mower, going to use mow around 1/4 mile of new trees that were planted around the old barn yard. All of last year was spent building a shop, so the H had to wait for some TLC. Farmall tractors are not very common in Western Canada, mostly the W line. My Grandfather used to have a H after the war, its long gone. Found a H with a belly mower, since it coming across the border. The paper work has to be all in place before crossing. So if the tractor was not what we wanted, cant bring a different one across at that moment. So were stuck with it, also came 1200 miles one way.

Now its 2014, finally get to work on the H. Did the typical things, tune up, oil change, etc. Get it running okay, take out to mow the grass. Its overheating, notice water pump is leaking. Tried to get the belt off, tapping on pulley, it breaks. Get new water pump, have the rad cleaned out. Put back together, still overheating. I hooked up pressure washer to the port under the carb that goes into the cooling system. Had the water pump out. Was at car wash for a hour or more. Figured its good now, nope. Got a pail of evapo-rust, put that in the cooling system. Still over heats, removed the plate on the side of the block, its full of scale. Other than removing the engine, then having the block cleaned in caustic cleaner. Does anybody have ideas?
 
I tried this stuff, but I think there is limits even to it.
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I put the pressure washer hose into the port on the side of the block, seems like pushed all scale away from that area. But its around the block. Its about a 1" think below the where the water manifold bolts onto.
 
I'm not sure that gray stuff is rust, though. It might be more like calcium / lime buildup. You could experiment iwth CLR, if it fizzes lots, then it's lime buildup. Let us know, I'd hate to have that stuff inside my H.
 
You did not say if the radiator was plugged so solid that no coolant is circulating. And in the pic of the block where the side plate is off it looks like part of a side plate deflector is still in there. The side plate should have two deflectors spot welded to it that stick out an inch or so from the plate. They rust off. Pry that out and get a new side plate (I have them in stock) The H is pretty easy to cool if anything is any where near where it should be. I don't think you need to remove the block.
 
(quoted from post at 21:22:27 11/02/14) Couple years ago Dad & myself picked up a H in southwestern Minnesota. It has a 6ft belly mower, going to use mow around 1/4 mile of new trees that were planted around the old barn yard. All of last year was spent building a shop, so the H had to wait for some TLC. Farmall tractors are not very common in Western Canada, mostly the W line. My Grandfather used to have a H after the war, its long gone. Found a H with a belly mower, since it coming across the border. The paper work has to be all in place before crossing. So if the tractor was not what we wanted, cant bring a different one across at that moment. So were stuck with it, also came 1200 miles one way.

Now its 2014, finally get to work on the H. Did the typical things, tune up, oil change, etc. Get it running okay, take out to mow the grass. Its overheating, notice water pump is leaking. Tried to get the belt off, tapping on pulley, it breaks. Get new water pump, have the rad cleaned out. Put back together, still overheating. I hooked up pressure washer to the port under the carb that goes into the cooling system. Had the water pump out. Was at car wash for a hour or more. Figured its good now, nope. Got a pail of evapo-rust, put that in the cooling system. Still over heats, removed the plate on the side of the block, its full of scale. Other than removing the engine, then having the block cleaned in caustic cleaner. Does anybody have ideas?
Click to expand...

Replace the radiator.
 
The side plate should have a sheet metal water guide spot welded to the plate. This helps direct water to the back of the block as an aid to cooling. I had one H that always ran hot. I found the water guide had rusted away. You might want to replace when you finish cleaning the block out. I never had one quite as plugged up as what you have. That is going to be a chore to get out.
 
David G, who is Redpower & what does he suggest? Im open to all ideas.

Yes the water pump impeller is hooked up, I thought about that. Thought I did forget at first.

The water manifold/plate is brand new.

The Rad shop claims the rad has good flow, but I have my doubts.
 
That piece in the middle is cast, seems to be part of the block. I tried tapping, prying on it. It does not move at all. I didn't want to get to carry away & end breaking the block.
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I used a heat gun & got the temp of the engine's coolant from same place factory gauge is. It was going over 200F, I shut it down. The factory gauge was in the red, so its getting to warm. Our SW6 barely moves off cold, so there is some of issue. This H is sure getting the best of me right now!
 
OK yeah I see it now. Yes, your cover looks good. Yes, I see some scale buildup but I don't think that would make it overheat. Then I don't know by reading your posts what you think overheating is? If it's not boiling the coolant out I would not worry too much about what the gauge says. Maybe you just need a new gauge? Have you confirmed the thermostat is working? I guess I'd try taking it out and see what happens. And check with your hand the temp of both the top and bottom of the radiator as the tractor warms up to see if you think it is circulating.
 
Make sure your main jet adjusting screw is open enough so your engine isn't running lean. I would remove the thermostat to see its the problem. Hal
 
Is that 3 inch channel looking piece SUPPOSED to be there???
I don't remember seeing anything like that on any H I have worked on, but then, I never paid that much attention.
Anyone with experience care to offer an opinion ???
 
get a candy thermometer or an automotive coolant test thermometer and drop it in the radiator and get a temp reading. im thinking you are not getting a good coolant flow from the block. if i remember the h sender is in the head. could be your passages are plugged up . if the tractor is where it will not freeze due to temperature, fill the coolant system with straight white vinegar and let it set a week. vinegar is a very mild acid and will dissolve rust and calcuim and not hurt the block. then give it a good flush.
 
you got the right idea. that thing is a mess. needs
disassembly and the caustic dunk tank.
 

Save yourself all of the grief and simply change the radiator.
I know you said it was flushed. They clog up so bad that you can't flush them.
 
Put the thermostat in boiling water, it open up & stayed open while in the water. Took out, as it cooled it closed, so that's working. Like was suggest, Im going to get the rad core replaced. As I said, Farmalls are not common. So will have to get it recorded. Shipping a rad from the Midwest will be too much. I been cleaning the block out. Going to try this for now, if that doesn't work. I will have to take the block out & have it dunked by a engine shop. Thanks again for the help guys.
 
lots of good suggestions.
working with an unknown radiator, couple of quick tests I do.

bottom hose off, garden hose on full flow stuck in the radiator neck. Draining thru the radiator should stay ahead of the hose flow easily.

plug the inlet/outlet of the radiator. Fill and then drain it into a bucket and see how much it holds.

I take the thermostat out temporarily when flushing/cleaning a nasty one. I want to actually see the return flow to the radiator when it's running. Should be very violent.
(and especially nasty ones, I might leave the thermostat out for a few days when all that junk coming loose is still circulating. They will get plugged)

Once done, on to the engine.
lean is hot,
but the most common hot problem I see is a stuck or malfunctioning advance mechanism.
If it is stuck/sticking, no advance when rpms come up and a very, very hot engine, exhaust side, will result.
(they sound 'louder' and the exhaust components will be white and crackling hot when this is the case)
A small combustion leak into the water jacket will get that temp climbing too.
 
This is what I got out of the block, a bunch of scale. Been talking to a lot people from south of the border. That old farmers would run water all summer. Couldn't afford antifreeze was also told. Something we never did in the West. Did this tractors not come from the factory with antifreeze in them?
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The tools I used to get most of the scale out. Then used acid/water to break up was left. I pushed the tractor outside, winched onto my trailer. Took it to work & used hot water to clean the block out.
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Here is a picture of the block full of acid/water. It foamed up yellow colour. Did a nice job of cleaning it up.
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Got the H unloaded, figured I should take the cylinder head off. As the scale is all over the place. Glad I took it off. The scale was blocking passage ways.
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Took the cylinder head to the machine shop to have them resurface the face. It was abit warped, then have a look at the valve train. Hoping Im getting to the end of the this overheating engine.
 
I took the rad to another rad shop. They flow tested it before cleaning. It took 30 seconds for the water to flow. Cleaned it, now takes 16 seconds. New core will be about 12 seconds they said. If I'm happy with cleaning, rad shop will take what I spent on cleaning towards the price of a new core. Brand new thermostat from IH.
 
This is interesting, the H's run really cool. Did you pull the side cover and power wash the block out good?
 
Once get head back on after machine shop is done with it. Im going to put coolant flow meter in the system to make sure its flowing properly. The temp gauge was reading hot, so was my heat gun. SO yes it was overheating. It will get another new thermostat, another new water pump. As first new water pump was leaking. I'm pretty sure got it, but never know.
 
Yes I pressured washed the block out at work. Removed the manifold, plugged the intake/exhaust ports. Removed the header plate. Used hot water & soap for a hour via the coolant header plate. Then turned off the soap, it was brown in colour for a bit. Then it went clear. I left the head on as didn't want to get water into the oil side of the engine. Once I got the tractor back home in the shop, took the head off. The passage ways had lots of scale blocking good coolant flow. Got the head hot tanked at machine shop. Machine shop is going to check the valves, seats, guides, etc.

The SW6 that's been here since 1955 runs cool, even after 6hrs of plowing snow in 3rd gear.
 
They have an abundance of cooling, so it is unusual to hear of one overheating. I am thinking about choking down the thermostat bypass on mine so it runs up to temp.
 
Sort of related to this topic: Was it common to take out the thermostat on an H, or replace it with something else?

By something else, I mean that I just took the water pump and cooling assembly off mine and instead of a thermostat, I found what looks a piece of aluminum (from a beer can maybe?) with a 1-1/2" hole cut in the middle sandwiched between the parts where the thermostat would go :D.

--b
 
(quoted from post at 06:04:21 11/05/14)
Save yourself all of the grief and simply change the radiator.
I know you said it was flushed. They clog up so bad that you can't flush them.
Click to expand...

I do believe I mentioned the radiator a couple of times.
 
I checked the head for warpage, it needs to be resurfaced. The first machine shop was a total screw around. They told head needs to be rebuilt. They wasted close to a month. I finally told them I want the head back. They couldn't find parts. Really I said, 5 seconds of searching the internet found lots of places that sell valve train parts. I picked up the head, for some reason they planed the head surface before doing guides, seats, etc. Took the head 2.5 hrs away(we only have 1 engine machine shop). Got them to dunk the head(head was full of scale also), install new guides, clean up the seats, install the new valves, springs, etc.

Finally got the head installed last week, put manifold, carb on. Today installed thermostat housing, belts, fan, shroud, rad, etc. Put coolant back in that I had taken out. Had to add other gallon, guess all the scale that was in the block made it hold less. Turned on the exhaust fan in the shop, fired up the engine. Let in idle for 10 mins, no overheating like before. Took it to full rpm, let run for 1/2hr. Still no overheating. Went outside, drove around the yard. So far its good. Dropped the 3pt blade & worked it in 4th gear, temp stayed between the "L" & "D" of the word COLD on the gauge. Things are starting to get better for this old H. Had my temp gun in pocket to make sure all its good. Temps over the cylinder head were reading about 140F.
 
Good deal. With as much scale as you showed in the pictures, no wonder it was overheating.

If I remember my history correctly, antifreeze was not commonly used until at least the late 1950's. Water was the coolant of choice. In winter you filled the radiator after starting the tractor and drained it when you parked the tractor.
 
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