Got my first tractor, need help

JollyRogers

New User
Hello

Needed a tractor and found a tractor close by that could be delivered, turns out to be a Ferguson TO30. Looks to be in "Fair" condition, lots of welds everywhere. It came with a Fasco loader, lines are rotted and the cylinders shot. Oh and the engine is apart but all the parts "should" be there, goodie :D

First thing we did was remove the loader to get easy access to the engine. After cleaning the top of the block we found cracks between the sleeves. Further reading online tells me this a common problem with a few solutions ranging from mild to extreme. We have already taken in the loaders lines, cylinders and pump in for replacement and rebuild. The previous owner has already rebuilt the top, new valves ect.

So I humbly ask for the help from owners and mechanics of these wonderful tractors.

What method do you recommend to repair the block?
Can a Check list be provided?
Also a To Do list?

More information:
The Serial plate number is missing
The steering "Hub" has been replaced with a TE
It was converted to 12 Volts
A previous owner decided to cut holes over the radiator and gas caps..... :shock:

Pictures:
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Will get more pictures later
 
no offense JR but I hope you got that thing for free as it's going to be a money pit. I won't offer advice on the engine as there are way more enlightened people here to answer that issue. I had a TO-35 with a cracked block like that and I wound up replacing it with a used block. if it's cracked top and bottom it's most likely history. IMO.

good luck.
 
Congratulations upon the purchase of a loader!! As for the rest of it, well. . . . Cracked blocks are common enough. This now
becomes a cr*p shoot as to repair. Me? Being cheap as I am, I would look into "pinning" the block. Basically drilling holes
between the cylinders and through the block side to side. Install your favorite grade 8 fine pitch bolt and install lock tight
and a nut on the far side. Top and bottom so your probably looking at a total of 4. Put it together and run a can of KW Block
seal in it. Hit the link if you have funding.
Untitled URL Link
 
I agree with steve19438.

If you can get it cheap enough to justify getting a loader out of the deal, you will be better off to find a running tractor to put it on.

A couple other problems, no power steering. You will not enjoy cranking on the steering with the loader on it!

Also no live hydraulics. The hydraulics will only work when moving or stopped in neutral with the clutch engaged.

One other, no high/low gear range.

I believe that loader will fit a TO35 Deluxe, and other Ferguson/MH/Massey Ferguson of that era.
 
Okay, this is round II.
Many years ago now, the wife and I brought home the first tractor. 1940 9N with a loader. It rolled off the (her tractor expert) friends
trailer and snapped the front axle knee. I cussed and was not impressed. A few days later she made noises about using a tiler behind the
machine. I told the the tractor PTO/ground speed was to fast for a tiller unless she found another transmission to put into her machine or
another machine. Then came along her TO-20 (delivered about 70 miles) with the added transmission for the tiler and a third trans for
speed. That cleaned out the bank account at that time. The first machine got fixed, I kept the loader and sold the 9N machine.
That left us with her Fergy. Others have come, a few have gone, and I have sold some I should have kept. A few tractors have stayed and the
implements have come along also in times. A few of those have gone and one of those should have stayed. Oops.
As for your lack of power steering, That can be mechanically assisted by lengthening the steering arms on top of the spindles. This makes
for a wider turning circle but can be overcome by using the brakes to turn. You have a machine that can educate you in fixing it or you can
pull the loader and find another machine. My fix would probably run you 150 bucks on the outside and get a running machine. Like I said,
it's a cr*p shoot. You can take that 150 and spend it towards another machine or try to fix this one to see what you get.
 
Hello

Steve19438,
No I didn't get it for free, But close :D

Steve@Advance
Yes those can be problems, I will try to work around them.
Did not think about keeping the loader and get a better MF, I will have to keep my eyes open.

Bruce(OR)
That is the "tension rod" repair, correct? that looked manageable. We do not plan on using it with a tiller, as those seem to damage the soil around quite a bit. Looking for pen cleaning and post hole digging. Maybe fix the driveway and renovate pastures.

Here are pictures of the cracks on top, will pull the engine later and get some pictures of bottom.

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You're getting honest responses, but not quite exactly what you asked for.

This won't be quite either.

As the owner of a TO30 I just want to add my 2 cents and say they are great tractors. True, they don't have some more modern features. But whether that matters depends on what you want to do with it. I use mine more or less like they were built for in the 50's, so it serves me beautifully.

I am rooting for you to fix this up and make it beautiful again. (And beautiful in a tractor doesn't necessarily mean all shiny, though that's OK. To me it means making it able to work well and earn it's keep.) I'll be awaiting pictures of another TO30 made running again and ready for the next 60 years of use.

As for the details.... I've not pinned a block myself so I cannot give you first hand advice. But I've heard good things from those who have done it (at least those that did it well).
 
At some point it may have had a different loader, so raising the hood was a problem. Thus holes
for gas and water. The cracks on top may not be serious. The ones, if they exist, on the bottom
are. By the punch marks on the sleeves, they seem to have been removed and reinstalled at some point.
If they stick up the recommended amount, the head gasket seals against them and separates the water from the cylinders. At the bottom there are O-rings which should be replaced if the sleeves are
pulled out. Did it leak water into the oil pan? Were the head bolts properly torqued? You may have
less of a problem than you fear.
 
"Tension rod" repair is a new phrase on me. I sold off a Fergy once that had those bolts run through it by a prior owner and
painted over a time or two. At the last minute, as we loaded the tractor, the nickel finally dropped as to what those "rods"
were. 4 bolt heads on one side of the block and 4 flush nuts on the other side. I saw the same machine being sold again about
2-1/2 years later for more money. So, it must work. The cracks shown should not amount to much once the head gasket is on
there.
I am wiling to bet that the 'O' Rings at the bottom of the cylinders are what went bad. You have a few choices at this time.
Pin it before you put it together, or assemble it and then run the KR Block seal and see what you get. KR Block seal is
probably in your future no matter what. You can risk it and put the engine together with new seals and gaskets. The head gasket
used to come with instructions to thinly coat it with "cup grease" Also known as wheel bearing grease and speaking of which,
should be short fiber wheel bearing grease typically used on drum brakes. The thin coating allows the gasket to shift a bit
when torquing it down. That grease also glues that gasket into place once tightened down and works like a champ.
So reseal it, and fire it up. If you get milk shake oil, add the KR block seal treatment and change the oil, try it again.
Still making bad oil? Might be time to try pinning the block, last ditch attempt at this level. Another oil change is due
again.
This is about the most two finger typing I have done in awhile.
email is open.
 
I would call a couple of machine shops, once you have inspected the bottom. Describe your cracks and ask about pinning and tension rod repair costs. Take the block in for assessment if you like any of the answers.
 
When I saw the 2nd picture I said that is not a TO30 at least not a TO30 dash. Look below the distributor there should be "cast letters and numbers" if you really clean them off it should show Z 129 if it is a TO30, if it shows Z 120 it is a TO20. Don't worry about the rest of the letters and numbers. Also the TO 30 has a outside oil filter on the right rear side of the engine. If this is a TO20 it will have a LARGE plate on the bottom of the oil pan where the oil and filter is changed. That shift lever looks like a TO20, maybe this is where the TE "HUB" comes into play. These are still good tractors.
 
Hello

Oops it is a TO20
After Richard L's post I did a double take.

Jeremy in DE
I will post more pictures as things progress. However it will be pictures of a TO20 and not of a TO30. I hope that is fine.

steve19438
That's a big crack o.0

cdmn
I do not know if it leaked water into the oil or if the head bolts were properly torqued. It was purchased with the engine apart with only some information about its previous owner.

Bruce(OR)
Will definitely look into the pin repair vs other options. It seems more manageable and less likely to cause problems than welding. On top it does not look like enough material for a Lock and Stick method,I have not seen the bottom yet, and likely a laborious method. ($)

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Ron(Ont)
We will pull the block soon and start calling them.

Richard L
You are correct the engine is a Z120 not a Z129. The block has Z129A600 and Z12-A600N. I am guessing the 0 failed to take when it was made? Further reading online makes me think they used a 129 cast(?) to make a 120 engine?

That would of been a major headache had we order the wrong parts. Thank you very much for pointing that out.

The dash is interesting, pictures of TO20's online show the fill port lower left but mine is center left. It is also not magnetic, maybe magnesium?

Thank you all for your time and information it is very helpful
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Hello

Got the block pulled, much easier than expected. Washed it and was able to get some better pictures.

The clutch is worn and so it the throw out bearing, get the kit? The bell is oily would this be engine oil or transmission oil?

I can not tell if there is a crack in the bottom. Will remove the crank to get a better look.

Also took some pictures of the rebuilt cylinder head

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I'd certainly replace the clutch disk and throwout bearing at this point - and replace the input shaft seal - you'll want to replace the rear main seal if you pull the crank

I do not like the corrosion of the cylinder walls, a full rebuild with new sleeves would be in order -

I agree the pictures are not conclusive, but the one seems to indicate a crack in the lower web -

here's a couple of resources -
http://fergusontractors.org/nfs/replacing-cracked-blockhead/

reportedly, these guys repair blocks, I've not had personal experience - https://www.ariens.com/en-us/dealers/grunders-farm-equipment-inc-593

If it were me, I'd be inclined to poke around and find a good block - not as easy as it once was, apparently, but they are out there - you are going to wrap more money up in this thing than you can sell it for, but I rationalize that I am investing in a tool for my use, not flipping an item for money -
 

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