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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 860 Parts Online

860 Wiring

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MikeyK

01-13-2018 20:47:34




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Hello,

After less than 5 hours of run time, my electronic ignition failed. Pertronix sent a replacement at no cost and it has been installed. I also have a 3 ohm Pertronix coil so the external resistor (small white rectangular block) has been removed. It was probably a faulty part but I just want to be sure my 860 is wired correctly so I'm not sending too much juice to the electronic ignition.

Below is a crude diagram of how everything is connected, does it look correct? Thank you for your time.

-Mike

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MikeyK

01-17-2018 19:35:14




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
John,

Thanks for clearing that up. I like to do a lot of research before tackling a repair and I stumbled upon that diagram a long time ago and saved it to my computer so I could better understand the wiring.

Just out of curiosity, why don't you like the 1-wire method? What are the advantages to the 3-wire method? Thanks for your time.

-Mike



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John in La

01-17-2018 20:05:06




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-17-2018 19:35:14  
Mike;
This discussion sometimes starts a pile of c_-_ because everyone has their beliefs and it is hard to teach a old dog new tricks. BUT..........

This alternator was originally made to work in a 3 wire setup.
The marine industry took it and put a expensive regulator in it to make it work as a 1 wire setup.
Then the aftermarket guys put a cheap regulator in it to sell as a cheap version of the 1 wire.

The marine version works very well.
The cheap aftermarket version works.

Since I have a 861 that came from the factory with a idiot light.
And this alternator was originally designed to work with a idiot light.
I like the 3 wire setup.
But I can understand you have a 860 that has a amp gauge with no idiot light so a 1 wire is your choice.

There are those (sometimes me) that say you need to rev the motor to get the alternator to charge.
This is mostly true. But that does not mean you need to rev the motor when cold.
If the alternator starts charging 5 minutes after you start the tractor because you let it sit and idle to warm up. So what. It is not like a tractor has a heavy electrical load and needs a charging alternator at start up.

Its just a personal choice because the alternator does not work as designed in a 1 wire setup. It works just not a 110%. And that is my belief and no proof from anyone else is going to change my old mind even if I am proven wrong.

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MikeyK

01-17-2018 10:22:36




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
Hi John,

I moved the one terminal block wire from the solenoid side of the amp gauge to the alternator side, as you suggested, but then I started looking at the "1-wire 12v diagram" below. It shows the terminal block connecting to the solenoid, on the same side as the battery connection, not the amp gauge. I am using the "1-wire" method so this diagram seems closer to the way I had it connected previously, or am I'm just confused? Thanks.



-Mike

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John in La

01-17-2018 19:10:31




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-17-2018 10:22:36  
Mike;
That is one of the first diagrams I drew.
It started out as this diagram that does not use the amp gauge.


In my haste I put the amp gauge where you see it in the diagram you posted.
When I noticed my mistake; partly from others on this site pointing it out to me; I redrew the diagram with the amp gauge in the correct location. So the diagram you posted is wrong and obsolete. You did not get it from me.

In fact I have deleted all the 1 wire diagrams I drew from my computer because while I drew them I do not personally like the 1 wire set up. But to each their own.

So you either found that diagram on the web; or someone else is passing it off as a good diagram.
Heck I have even seen others trying to sell the diagrams I drew.

Here is a link to my photo bucket site. It has all the diagrams I still approve.

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MikeyK

01-14-2018 07:51:31




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
John,

The engine was rebuilt right before I took ownership a couple years ago but it's true, I don't use it a ton. Could it also be a faulty ignition switch or an overheating issue? Thanks.

-Mike



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John in La

01-14-2018 07:58:07




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-14-2018 07:51:31  
If it were a faulty switch it would stay running like normal; not spit and sputter.
Over heating could be determined by your gauge but that is not a likely problem.

Your timing may be off a little.



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WayneIA

01-14-2018 11:01:48




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to John in La, 01-14-2018 07:58:07  
Timing has no effect on the engine running after the switch is off. If you have a diode in place, carbon deposits in the combustion chamber are the likely culprit



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MikeyK

01-14-2018 07:26:59




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
John,

Thanks for the explanation, I'll move that wire today.

I have two more quick questions:

1.) With a new 3 ohm 12v coil, I don't need the resistor (small white rectangle block) anymore, right?

2.) What does it mean when I turn the key to the off position but it doesn't immediately kill the engine? If the tractor has been running for a while, it will sputter a bit, like it's running on one cylinder before finally stopping, sometimes with a backfire.

Thanks again for the assistance, I appreciate it.

-Mike

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John in La

01-14-2018 07:40:58




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-14-2018 07:26:59  
1) No you do not need the ballast resistor.
The resistor is used to keep the new 12 volt system from frying the original 6 volt coil.
You change the 6 volt coil to a 12 volt coil and you do not need the resistor.

2) May have a little carbon buildup on the piston.
The carbon stays hot enough to fire the gas mixture even after the key is off.
Best thing I can tell you is USE the tractor. Do not baby it by pitter putting around.

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MikeyK

01-14-2018 07:02:54




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
rvirgil_ks,

After I confirmed that the electronic ignition did indeed fail, I asked Pertronix if there was anything I could do to help prevent future failure. The tech said it was probably just a faulty unit but that using a carbon-core (suppression) spark plug wires, instead of solid copper, would help. He explaining that the solid copper wires emit electromagnetic interference that can degrade an electronic ignition over time. So, I bought a set of carbon-core wires and installed them, just to be safe.

-Mike

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MikeyK

01-14-2018 06:54:08




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
John,

Thanks for the correction. I used the instructions that came with a new wiring harness and it shows the alternator connecting to one side of the amp gauge by itself, while showing the solenoid and terminal block connecting to the other side of the amp gauge. What would be the possible side-effects of having the amp gauge connected like I do?

-Mike



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John in La

01-14-2018 07:20:14




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-14-2018 06:54:08  
Mikey:
The way you have it wired the gauge can not show a discharge.
It can only show a charge.

You hook the power source (solenoid) to one side of the gauge and everything else to the other side.
Now you turn the key on or turn lights on and the gauge shows a discharge.
Motor starts and alternator starts to charge. It supplies enough power to run the lights and coil and any extra power shows as a charge to the battery.

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rvirgil_ks

01-13-2018 21:02:10




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
Wire from ammeter to terminal block, and supply wire to light switch, should connect to alternator side of the ammeter

Did Pertronix tell you to use suppression type plug wires and not solid metal wires



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John in La

01-13-2018 21:01:40




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 Re: 860 Wiring in reply to MikeyK, 01-13-2018 20:47:34  
The terminal block and alternator hook to the same side of the amp gauge.
Make sure you have the coil wire hook to + now that the system is negative ground.




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