Aftermarket gauge cluster for generator only?

I've run my 67 Ford 2000 a bit since the rocker shaft / battery tray / new gauge cluster / rewire / alternator conversion. Everything works perfect. Except one issue. It's been showing me that it's running hot last couple times I've ran it. I ran it for over an hour with no problem pulling my dull 5' cutter through knee high weeds with no overheating, temp rock solid. Now it's heating up. I've flushed a bunch of rust out of radiator, I've got it sitting full of Prestone flush right now. I say showing me because just a moment ago I went back out to crank it and let it warm up again to help the flush work, I let it idle, then ran up to 1krpm for a bit, temp gauge pointing straight down like it should. Thought it was flowing again and it was fine. Until I revved it up to 1400 where the alt starts charging. As soon as the light popped out the temp needle jumped up to the edge of red. I understand it's because the system voltage jumped up to alt charge voltage. (14.6 - 14.7v)

Question is, I see on YT store that their replacement cluster for this tractor specifies that it's for generators only. I bought mine on Ebay but it appears to be the same one. So what have I got on my hands? Anyone ran into this before? Do I need some sort of dropping resistor to bring that charging voltage down some at the cluster? If I understand right the newer clusters don't actually have a "Stabilizer" resistor because they don't need it.

I'm still printing out a hose adapter to plug my garden hose into the radiator hose so I can flush it all clean anyway tomorrow. Is possible it's actually running hot after all. There was a good bit of rust in there. Still brown now.
 
OK.

It's definitely electrical. I'm guessing more voltage than the gauge is calibrated for. Cranked it again, this time I ran it up till it started charging early in the run before it warmed up to get voltage stable. I remembered I have an IR heat gun too. Block, top of radiator, water pump, sending unit itself all around 120-125* Had cap off, stuck my finger into the water, felt like nice bath water, yet gauge was just touching the red. So I know I'm not actually running hot, I know I'm still getting water circulation too, since bottom radiator hose was hot. (I'm assuming it's a downflow radiator) Either way for the radiator to heat up at all water would have to be moving.

So if low resistance is a high reading on gauge, then I'm guessing my 14.7v is throwing it off as it's dropping what it expects to be lower voltage from a generator sooner than it should. Seems like I need a dropping resistor in line. I am powering gauges through the stabilizer already.
 
I think I'm going to order another sending unit and see where that gets me. Surely if an alternator conversion messed up the gauges there'd be some information out there about it.
 
The gauge clusters are different because the RPM needle turns in the opposite direction between the generator driven units and the cam driven ones. If when you converted to alternator did you put in an in the block drive unit from an X600 or newer machine, or are you not using the RPM/Hourmeter? When you installed the new temp sensor did you use teflon tape, or something else that can interfere with the ground?
 
I used a conversion alternator with the tach drive on the back. It still has the old sender in. I'm going to Napa to pick one up. That has to be it now that I think about it. If it were voltage problem then the fuel gauge would be off too, and it's reading about right. Maybe the extra juice from the alt smoked that old sender after running for a couple hours.
 

Check you dash ground, Ive lost the ground on a couple of mine and the temp gauge would show hotter than the tractor was.

Early -000 series used a voltage stabilizer and the tach was driven by the generator, the tach swept clockwise with zero on the right side of the dial.
On later models -600, -610, -630 the tach was driven by the oil pump drive in the engine, that tach swept counterclockwise with zero on the left side of the dial, Ford also quite using the voltage stabilizer on later models but they use different temp and fuel senders.
If your still using the original type senders you must use the voltage stabilizer.

The reference for your cluster being for a generator tractor is because of the direction the tach sweeps, it has nothing to do with how the gauges work.
 
There is a third choice. Early -600 tractors retained the stabilizer but had the zero on the right and swept to the left.
 
He clearly stated he had an alternator conversion with a tach drive. No proofmeter change or oil pump tach drive is required.
 
The proofmeter doesn?t care whether the Tractor has an alternator or generator. The reference to generator only refers to the way the Tractor
was originally equipped. Wire the power supply for both gauges through the stabilizer, verify that the stabilizer is working. Check your cluster
ground. If you disconnected the ground connection at the original VR location, reconnect it to a clean ground point. Then check the temp
sender resistance, or replace it. But do everything else first.
 
He did mention RPM, but did not specificaly mention that the alternator had a tach drive. And I will mention that he better confirm the RPM with a photo tach as this site is getting them from the same supplier from a large East Asian country we did, and they are usually quite a bit off.
 
(quoted from post at 06:46:18 05/26/18) There is a third choice. Early -600 tractors retained the stabilizer but had the zero on the right and swept to the left.

Wasn't sure when Ford quit using the voltage stabilizer, that's why I said later models.
Zero to the right and swept to the left is a generator drive tach.

My engine driven tach like the -600's use is zero to the left and sweeps to the right.

As I said before, first thing I'd check is the ground, I've had more issues with faulty gauges due to a bad ground than from defective senders or gauges.
 
X600 Parts catalog is pretty clear on the question. One could also check the thread size on the temp sender to verify whether it requires a VS
on the power supply.
 
Thanks for the help guys. The tach works fine, if a little bouncy. (Need to add another zip tie somewhere to stop that cable flopping so much I think)
I've got an optical tach I can use to read the PTO rpm pretty easily to calibrate where 1800 should be. Is there a way to adjust the tach in the cluster?

Everything else electrical seems to work as it should. I'll start with getting a new sender and go from there. I was more worried about electrical compatibility of all the parts

Still going to flush the coolant system, dirty in there even if it's working. I printed out an adapter to shove a garden hose into the radiator hose.
 
Thread size of the temp sensors would not be definitive Rick. The x600 parts catalog shows 3 different temp sensors: one for 1-75 to 3-76, one for 4-76 to 5-79, and one for 6-79 and on. The first one is 1/8" NPT, and the other two are 3/8" NPT. Only the latest one is suitable for magnetic gauges.
 

I've tried to look up the part number but haven't been able to find it, I changed my 4000 cluster to engine driven tach around 2000, My brother was parts manager at our local NH dealer then and he found me a 1/8 sender for the newer cluster, may have been aftermarket.
I need to find out from him again as I'm fixing to change my 4000SU over the engine driven tack while we're replacing the broken crank, I like the up and down gauges in the 4630 style clusters.
 
If your after market gauge cluster is recent it is not the same internally as the original Ford cluster.
The aftermarket gauge cluster uses D'arsonval gauges and do not require the voltage stabilizer. There is a can about matchbox size that is identical to the old stabilizer, but it is just for appearances. It is an empty can with a jumper bridge inside.

I would start trouble shooting by measuring the battery voltage with everything off. Then measure it again just after cranking, but not enough rpm to energize the alternator. Raise the rpm and see if the gauge starts reading hot when the alternator starts charging you may have grounding problems.
If you have a volt meter you can read the resistance of the temperature sensor by grounding one lead and attaching the other probe lead to the flat blade extending out from the sensor. If you can trace the lead back to where it goes into the meter or regulator block and measure both the wire resistance and sensor resistance.
 
sammorgan3,

I have a question. You started with a ford 2000 1974. then 1967.

I take it you have only one Ford 2000 and established it as a 1967 Antwerp.
Since you are familiar with series pass regulators you could always wire your instrument panel to run say 9 volts with an lm 317.

I have to go back and read what you did with your led instrument lights and how you wired them.
 
I actually changed the warning lights over to regular 12v LED #1893 lights, and ditched the whole voltage dropper/regulator thing I made. Those work fine as far as I can tell. Batt light cuts off just as alternator voltage goes from ~12.6 to ~14.7 Oil pressure light cuts off when you start cranking the motor, takes about 10-20sec to cut on after you cut the engine off. Don't know if it's taking that long for the pressure to drop or if the switch is sticking. I'm replacing switch anyway, costs basically nothing. Shouldnt effect the gauges though, since the lights are both powered from the same side of the "stabilizer" as the battery voltage comes in from the ign terminal. Only the two gauges get their power from the other side, then the other gauge terminal leads out to their respective sending units. I'm thinking it's going to be the sender, but I have to take the cluster out anyway to swap the speed nuts when my "J" type come in so I can check everything again.
 
I am not sure about the pressure level drop in the 2000, but I am kind of amazed with the ford 4000 engine oil pressure. I don't like idiot lights so I tested the oil pressure on the "now mine 4000"(hope that is not too possessive) with three mechanical gauges before I bought it. I finally put an electric gauge on after I got it home because a broken oil pressure line can drain the oil and cause damage if the operator is not observant.

If I remember correctly the pressure stays up a few seconds after engine shutdown. Some of the pressure lights go out after the pressure reaches no more than 5 psi or less and that does not tell me if an engines bearings or oil pump are wearing or are something is going bad.
I would not be surprised if your oil pressure switch does not red light until the pressure drops below 3 psi (hysteresis)?

A good way to check it is to T in a mechanical gauge screwed straight into the gallery along side the switch (use one with a restricted orifice so the needle does not pulse.) You might even leave it there as a safety check. It will give you an idea of your oil condition and you can the observe the pressure when it is cold, as it warms up, and if it gets really hot under some conditions.
 
I bought a new cluster for $79 as I recall off ebay last year. Installed it on the '65 3000 with generator drive. Zero is on the right. Works
fine. Just disconnected the wiring to the old one and installed new. Instructions included. Don't remember if there were any gotchas in
the change, like a wire you no longer use sort of thing.
 
I seriously think it's just the sender, as it was working for a good few hours after I got the tractor fired back up after my fixes. I flushed it out with the hose, back through the upper hose and then down the neck while I held my hand over the top radiator port. It flowed in both directions so it probably doesn't even have a thermostat in it. Got everything flushed till it ran clear. Pulled it back over my parking spot and the water was already rusty again. :lol: So I just ran to town and bought a bottle of blue devil radiator flush, four laps around the pond had the gauge reading sorta hot again, but I could lay my hand on the side of the block no problem. I got it sitting right now, I'll crank it and warm it back up occasionally with a few laps today and tomorrow. The radiator tubes looked pretty clean after the Prestone and a good hose flush, the Blue Devil should finish it up and let me fill it back up with distilled and antifreeze. The block drain under the injector pump didn't let anything out when I opened it up, not too surprised there. Tried to get in there with a little wrench but it looks like I'll have to cut off the stem and get on it with a socket to get it off.

https://imgur.com/a/QvAA1wO
 
Two more hose water flushes today. Ran the hose on it till it cleared again, very quick this time. Cranked it up and instantly brown again. :lol: Small victory of getting water out of the block drain this time though. Cracked it with the motor running and warm and system pressure did the trick. Few deep deep brown drips followed by a small stream and working the valve finally got it to start sorta dribbling and running out. Doesn't seem like it wants to seal back up, no surprise there, that's why I've already got a new one on the way. Think I'll do a vinegar flush tommorrow. It's getting cleaner on top of the radiator fins every time, plain water coming out completely brown. May be to the point now where vinegar will dissolve all of it. Hopefully. Still has some rust flakes visible, but nothing compared to what it was. Still don't think it's actually overheating due to my temp gun readings the other day, but I want all the rusty mess out of it.

New temp sender and oil pressure switch scheduled to be here tomorrow. I'll wait till after the vinegar flush before I put it on. Consensus elsewhere on the net seems to be one wrap of teflon tape should be good to help sealing without interfering with ground. What say you guys? I do have some copper antisieze, but I can pick something else up in the morning if I need to.

I do have a hole in the dash already that PO dropped a big carriage bolt into, it's maybe 1" in diameter. No clue what it could have been for. I might just drill that out and put in an oil pressure gauge in. Electrical of course. The thought of a broken oil line pumping the engine dry in a few seconds doesn't appeal to me.
 
Deutz, seems I missed your question, or forgot to answer. Yes it's an Antwerp 67. Though it's been "americanized" by PO with aftermarket round fenders and removal of the hand brake.
 
Also while I'm thinking about it, should I lube the tachometer cable? Maybe shoot some white lithium grease into it? New cable probably has a teflon sheath, but I don't really know.
 
Sammorgan3

A broken oil pressure sending line won't drain the sump that rapidly, but if you are moving and/or preoccupied you might not notice a small stream of oil hitting the soil. You did bring up an interesting question. Just how long would it take to drain the sump of a 2000 or 4000 engine if the oil line broke.

Now I am going to have to check it out. Basically I will remove the oil line from a gauge and see how many minutes it takes to fill and 8 ounce cup. Then we can extrapolate from there.
 
Now I am going to have to check it out. Basically I will remove the oil line from a gauge and see how many minutes it takes to fill and 8 ounce cup. Then we can extrapolate from there.

And that would be a worse case scenario, as most leaks wouldn't be as large as the inside diameter of the tube.
 
I have noted that there is a difference in diameter in some oil pressure gauge lines. The largest diameter OD I have seen is 1/8". There is some tubing made of nylon, but I would not use it. The only time I now use a mechanical gauge is one that screws directly into a T fitting so there is no line. I use it as a calibration check for the electric gauge.

I have seen some that were smaller, but I don't know the inside diameters. If I test one I will go with the largest inside diameter.

I do remember someone writing about their Ford? backhoe oil pressure gauge line breaking and they did not notice because the operator was digging a hole, etc. It either froze the engine with a stuck piston, spun bearing, or thrown rod. I cannot remember. So it is possible to do significant damage it the oil level is not checked or someone is no aware of their surroundings.

I almost did it on a Super C but not from a broken line. The oil drain plug was slightly loose. How it got that way I don't know, but I caught it in time with only about a quart and a half of oil left in the crankcase. What tipped me off was erratic needle movement of the mechanical gauge. Sorry to go on, but I needed to give the benefit of my experience.
 
What's it hold? 3 gallons? It'd probably take a couple minutes to drain. I doubt it'd take too long at full oil pressure. It'd be pretty hard for it to go unnoticed too. Still a chance though.
 
The 3 cylinder 2000 and 4000 both hold 2 gallons. I think I will simulate the condition by using my air compressor and a piece of pvc with a valve, air input and fluid volume holder. I think this way is safer. I can also check the flow at different temperatures. I probably have already overdone this. It really does not need all this to get a ball park figure. Who would really want to know this other than a few individuals.
 
Well I flushed it again today. Stuck the hose running sorta slowly in the filler neck and opened the block drain and rad drain, cranked it up and let it run. Deep brown out of block drain. Fiddled with it to keep it flowing till it ran clear, then closed it up and drove it around. Still wanting to show hot. Parked it, drained it completely, put in 3 gallons of white vinegar. Cranked it up, started creeping up immediately like it's been doing. Warmed it till the gauge just touched red, then shut it down. Let it sit for a few hours, just cranked it up and ran it at about 1000rpm for about 15 minutes and the gauge hardly moved from cold. Looks like something's happening! I did check it with the IR gun, block showing ~125* front to back, top of rad showing same, water pump showing ~105* or so. Still going to replace the sender just to be on the safe side. And the oil pressure light cut on as soon as I killed it this time, though I don't see how that could be related. Unless it was sticky from sitting over the winter and it's finally freeing up. I have a new one anyway. Going to wait till my gauge comes in before I mount it though, so I can tee it in.
 
Going to let the vinegar sit overnight, then drive it around in the morning to warm it up before draining again and see what I get out of it.... And what's been pushed out of the block and onto the core. Had it pretty clean where I could see down the filler, except a few flakes of rust sitting sticking out of the tubes. Hopefully when I drain it in the morning I can flush it with water before sticking the new sender in and I'll be good... As soon as I fix the upper radiator hose that's got a slow drip now after I've taken it off a few times. :lol:
 
Well got a bunch more crap out of it. Drove it around, stopped at the shop to air up the tires, gauge went maxed out. Strange. Pulled the cluster, gauge still showing hot, unplugged supply wire, plugged it back in, gauge shows halfway. Odd. Ran new supply wires to both gauges and got rid of the wire that was on the cluster when I bought it. We'll see. Coolant system full of distilled and antifreeze now, hopefully we're good there too.
 
Ok. Well I'm lost. Got on the tractor this morning to go flip the bush hog over. Temp gauge reading nearly halfway up as soon as I turned on the key. Of course it was reading hot by the time I got up to the shop when I know good and well there's no way. :? It's got to be the gauge itself. Cluster has a good ground, double checked wiring to sender. New sender. Replaced wires that send power to both gauges. I don't know what's going on here.
 
(quoted from post at 12:19:14 06/03/18) Ok. Well I'm lost. Got on the tractor this morning to go flip the bush hog over. Temp gauge reading nearly halfway up as soon as I turned on the key. Of course it was reading hot by the time I got up to the shop when I know good and well there's no way. :? It's got to be the gauge itself. Cluster has a good ground, double checked wiring to sender. New sender. Replaced wires that send power to both gauges. I don't know what's going on here.
'm leaning to gauge/sender incompatibility, since there have been so many variations over time, so, if you still have old sender, measure its resistance at room temperature & again in a pot of boiling water & do same with new & compare measurements.
 
Well the thing is this problem happened the same with the old sender and a new one. Can have tractor running, block and rad showing 120 -130* or so and the gauge will be showing hot. Sometimes it seems to work fine and I can run the tractor for an hour with the gauge only showing about halfway up its travel.

It's acting like I've got a partial short in the wire going to the sender but if it was shorting then it should be pegging the gauge and it's not, it's like an intermittent fixed offset.

I can tell when it's going to "run hot" because as soon as I turn the key on the gauge jumps further over, like 1/3 up its travel before I even crank the engine. I hate to add an external temp gauge when I've already got one in the cluster but I don't really want to run it with a funky gauge. Maybe I'll pull the cluster apart and look for a bad internal connection somewhere.
 
Old sender reading 750 ohm at ambient temp of about 85*F. New one reading 340 ohm in cold motor. Jumpered case of old sender to ground and plugged it in, temp gauge barely moves when turning key on. Thing is sometimes new sender does that too. :lol: I think I need a new sender. Problem is finding someone who will give me resistance spec of their sender so I can get the right one. Looks like I need the 750 at ~85*

What are the odds I got another intermittently bad sender?
 
And I just spotted a difference. Some of the senders I see for sale have the insulation around the connector proud of the body by about 1/8", like my old one. Some are flush, like my new one. I'll take that $10 gamble
.
 
Sammorgan3,

Do you have access to any 1/4 watt resistors?
Rather than try to get a sensor to match you old one it might be better to measure the characteristics of your temperature gauge.

It would be good it you had some 100 ohm and 500 ohm resistors.

Start with a string of 100 or 200 ohm resistors and test your meters response to this ersatz temperature sender.

I think these are ntc thermistors and resistance goes down as the temp goes up.
What would be great is if you have a 2k turn pot. You can then measure the resistance range you meter requires by measuring the resistance at high and low points by simply turning the pot. If you do this you might want to put a current limiting resistor of say 100 ohms in series with the turn pot.

It is possible to get the resistance range of some temp sending units and then you can choose your sending unit by design rather than trying to match sending units based on what might be unknown performance of your units.

I think I have seen performance specs of some Standard Motor Products temperature sending units.
 
Deutz,

That'll be the next step if this other style of sender doesn't work. I'll be sure to update whether new sender works or if it has to be adjusted. I can't be the only one to have had this problem with these aftermarket clusters and senders, so I'm sure the info will help someone else out there.

I could adjust the sweep with a series resistor, but at the power dissipation it would probably have to be pretty large. Probably over 1 watt. Plus I'd rather have just sender and gauge for simplicity. VDO has an OEM catalog with different senders listed, so I can at least find something if this new one doesn't work. I'll do as you say and wire in a 1k or 2k pot (750ohm barely moves needle off cold stop) and find what resistance puts the gauge about midway.
 
I am not really sure how these D'arsonval gauges are wired since they can be configured in a number of ways depending on what is being measured and desired accuracy.

When I was taking an instrumentation course it took me a while to really understand the difference between a voltage operated device and a current operated one along with the differences in a constant current source and a constant voltage source.

I know you want the simplest and quickest method of getting a relatively accurate temp reading, but I can't help but think of operational amplifier applications in their myriad variations that could be applied. It would not take long to think one up, but it always takes a lot longer to actually get from drawing board to application. Basically not worth the time except for proof of concept by someone else who had a lot of time on their hands.

As I write this I have to remind myself to check my 4000 because I did not check the temperature sender when I installed the newer type instrumentation cluster (the old one was totally broken). I think it also has the original sender so I have to do exactly the same, remove the sender, measure its resistance at ambient and then immerse it in boiling water. I was not concerned because even though the gauge needle went into the hotter range the coolant did not seem to be boiling out and the radiator tank did not burn my hand. It only did this after about an hour or so of hard bush hogging. So yes I had already been thinking about some of this before you wrote your original post.

DL
 
It's an irritating hunt, because I've seen at least two different senders being sold as the same part #. I don't know if ALL flush-insulated senders ohm out at ~340@85* or if ALL proud-insulated senders ohm out at ~750@85* but I know I've seen both proud and flush being sold as same part # and I know my old one measures 750ohm at 85* and when it's plugged in and jumpered to ground, the gauge barely ticks off of the cold peg when the key is turned on. The problem is that sender has an intermittent problem of jumping to hot. The new sender jumps much further over when turning the key on. It SEEMS like it's having an intermittent jumping to hot problem... but it also seems to want to run much closer to hot when just driving around and not really working the tractor. I've got a "Proud insulation" sender ordered but if it doesn't work I might just go bother everyone at a parts house with a multi meter.
 
This is what I mean by two different styles. The one on the left is the first new one I ordered and installed. The one on the right is the one I've just ordered. It looks more like my old one with more insulation sticking up out of the body around the terminal. I'll see when it gets here what it Ohms out at.

I don't know why nobody gives resistance values for their senders. I've looked around at dozens of places and even the manufacturers act like it's some guarded secret.

I guess John Q Public would be confused and angered with these strange numbers and open bottom O symbols.

https://postimg.cc/image/f00i90vgr/
 
How temp sender manufacturers see mechanics:

17716.jpg
 
I would not be too "proud" of that 2nd sensor. I looks like the plastic kind of migrated up around the blade.

Airtex/Wells says that the thermistor is often damaged during the injection molding process and this can lead to premature failure.
They of course have solved the problem in their sensors.

DL
 
Well I measured the resistance of the sender on the 4000 and it reads 294 Ohmmmmmmmmmms at 80 F. That is too low and would be what is expected since the original gauge was thermal bimetallic.

I measured the sender on my working Dexta and qt 80 F it is a little over 2000 ohms. I think I need to swap them. The one on the Dexta is a kluge add on since the original was a mechanical capillary.

Like you said the companies don't provide much usable specs on the omega. Maybe I should measure a whole lot of different makes, make a list and call myself Omega Man with apologies to Charlton Heston.

If you check your gauge with those impedance devices and find you need a sender that is about 1500-2000 ohms at 80 F let me know and I will send you the make and number.
 
Well the second sensor in the picture is a Sparex, and YT shows the same type with the insulation protruding up further, so I'm thinking the first one is actually something else that some vendors just scabbed in. I might be wrong, but we'll see in a few days when it comes in. I know the one that ready ~750Ohm at 85* just barely moved the needle off of the cold peg when I powered the gauge with it jumpered in right after measuring the resistance. I'm pretty sure anything around 1k at room temp would be fine. Your 2k would probably be fine too, since most senders that I could actually find a Resistance at temp curve for seemed to fall steeply in resistance at lower temps and level out at higher temps. I do know that old sender was working fine for a few hours, then it started randomly dropping resistance, so hopefully one with the same resistance will do fine too. If you have your hands on that 2k part number I wouldn't mind having it on hand in case the one I just ordered doesn't work out.
 
Update, update, update,

I went by my local aftermarket parts store today and asked for a replacement temp sender. The part number is the same as the one they sell here at YT. C4AH10884A They had one and I put my meter to task.

Room temp measurement: at about 80-85 F the sender read about 1200 ohmmmmms.

He had to go outside so I borrowed a cup of hot tap water, but it in their microwave for about 1 minute. It was hot, but not boiling and the resistance now read about 225 ohms. So I think the previously mentioned part number C4AH10884A should do as a replacement.
 
I forgot to say I was amazed that you actually found a sender that had performance specs and a curve. Wow.
The manufacturers will probably ban the vender for showing actual specs. lol
 
The low resistance sender I'm having problems with is also C4AH10884A :lol: And I checked the Napa farm store, they didn't have it. I doubt Advance or Oreilly's has it either. Hell I doubt either of them could even look it up by part number. Only thing they know anymore is to put in year, make, model, and engine size.
 
Where do you live? At least what state.

Do you have an O'reillys Automotive nearby?

That sensor is a BWD, but I have to find the model number. I think I bought about 5, but I have to find a box.
There are others like some smp sensors that qualify, but I have to search them out.
 
I do have a couple O'reilleys, Advance, and Autozones nearby. I've tried cross referencing the Ford PNs to aftermarket manufacturers but come up empty so far. Guess the #s are too old to cross reference.
 
sammorgan3,

I dug up some part numbers, but I would have to check each type out because some are oil pressure switches and not sensors.

I think the ones I bought were BWD WT127 or WT127P. Another one is BWD WT691. I would have to go to OR parts and put an ohm meter on each one. I checked the one on the Dexta, but it had no information stamped on it. They might have a record of which ones I bought. I might be going to town tomorrow and if I can remember I will check these out. You cannot always tell from the description since it is sometimes incorrect so they have to be checked directly.

DL
 
(quoted from post at 15:44:45 06/05/18) sammorgan3,

I dug up some part numbers, but I would have to check each type out because some are oil pressure switches and not sensors.

I think the ones I bought were BWD WT127 or WT127P. Another one is BWD WT691. I would have to go to OR parts and put an ohm meter on each one. I checked the one on the Dexta, but it had no information stamped on it. They might have a record of which ones I bought. I might be going to town tomorrow and if I can remember I will check these out. You cannot always tell from the description since it is sometimes incorrect so they have to be checked directly.

DL

Cool, thanks. I can take those numbers and have a lead. I can check them in the store with my meter if the one I have ordered doesn't work.
 
Earlier this evening I found one of the unused sensors and checked it out. This one also read about 2100 ohms at room temperature.
I put it in an almost boiling cup of water and the resistance dropped to 85 ohms.

DL
 
That last one I linked on Ebay is 98ohm @ 200* so that's pretty close actually. Only thing is it's a bit longer than the Ford part so I'm not sure if there's enough hole there to put it in.
 
I checked that link again. In the instructions it does say there is a gap (visible in photo) in the probe part that can be cut. I take it that most of the probe length is a sink to transfer heat to the thermistor. Not wanting to cut apart a working temperature sensor I will wait until I replace the bad one to see where the thermistor is located.

Most of the sensors I have found fit earlier Fords and other vehicles. So maybe they did try to have some uniformity to minimize logistic support unlike companies like HP ink cartridges.

1970s- late 80s
 
Sammorgan3,

Success! I went by the OR store earlier and they did have the record of the sensors I bought about 3 + years ago. They are WT903. Funny no compatability listed. Must be universal.

It says the temperature range is 141-211.4 F.degree.
I guess they mean the linear region.
Of course they don't have a blade connector terminal, but a threaded tip. I don't think you will have any problem getting a connector to make it fit if the others won't suffice.
 
(quoted from post at 16:27:27 06/06/18) Sammorgan3,

Success! I went by the OR store earlier and they did have the record of the sensors I bought about 3 + years ago. They are WT903. Funny no compatability listed. Must be universal.

It says the temperature range is 141-211.4 F.degree.
I guess they mean the linear region.
Of course they don't have a blade connector terminal, but a threaded tip. I don't think you will have any problem getting a connector to make it fit if the others won't suffice.

Sure sounds like an electric fan switch to me.

Detailed Description
Temperature Sender With Gauge; In design, we specify custom wax formulations that will expand when heated, activate a snap action electrical contact and transfer the electrical signal to the fan controller. In manufacture, we custom form the wax pellets for different temperature range specifications. All units are calibrated & tested to confirm switch actuation at their specified temperature. The switch is designed using a formed bimetallic contact arm. The bimetal contact movement is achieved using the different expansion rates of two metals fused together. This is a creep action device, provides precise performance. In production, all thermal switches are factory-calibrated to make electrical contact at the specified lower-temperature set point. Our switches feature a robust design with high grade materials to meet the stringent demands of today's service professional. BWD is a global manufacturer of original equipment ignition products, complete quality control is maintained through the manufacturing process from componentry to finished product.
 
Jmor,
It is true that some of these are fan switches, But I tested these and they behave like a thermistor temperature sensor. There was no on and off with hysteresis. I got a graded response and at about 200 F degrees the resistance read about 85 ohms.

If these were switches they would read a high resistance at room temperature. These read anywhere from 1500 ohms to 2000 ohms at ambient.

That is why I tested them at the store because sometimes the information is generalized and not specific for a particular item number.
 
Neither local O'reilly's has them in stock :lol: But at least I have a definite # now.

Something else I found:

"The AutoMeter 100 to 250 degree, short sweep temperature gauge uses a specification of 1123 ohms of resistance to ground to = 100 degrees F, and 65 ohms of resistance to ground to = 250 degrees F. You may contact our Service Department for further specs."

That sounds suspiciously close.

Source:
https://www.autometer.com/resources/index/faq_view/id/11[/url]
 
My Sparex sender just came in and I checked it. At room temp it's 1k ohm. S.65566 is the part #. I don't know if the first guy bought the wrong part and just listed it as a Ford or if his supplier got it wrong.
 
Page 31 of this PDF:

http://www.vdo.com/media/182591/flc_sensors_instrumentation_en.pdf

Shows 323-801-009-001D being 36ohm @ 120*C
From what I gather, that sender is:

https://www.vdo-gauges.com/sensors/...r-300-deg-f-150-deg-c-1-8-27nptf-801-9-1.html

It does list 801/9/1 there, so maybe?
Unfortunately the technical data sheet they link to doesn't include any part numbers even in the same format as VDO's part number.

I think the Sparex will work fine for me, since it's 1k@room temp vs the old 750@room vs the 1st replacement that was only around 300. I'll keep my temp gun handy and see what's going on gauge vs temp.
 
Sammorgan3,

That VDO PDF download was a great find. Good detective work. It actually has temp vs ohm specs for their sensors and it looks like a lot of them differ only in physical layout. I don't know how you found it, but it does explain how a number of different sensors give similar readings when checked out.

I was also able to cross the WT901 and got all but the Echlin number.
At least we all have some cross index numbers and some technical information in case more are needed. Some of these are available in 24 hrs if needed. It sure cost a lot of time researching this. If only the rest of the companies had provided more information. You would think most companies be more helpful to end users instead of dumbing people down.
 
I note that VDO calls this an oil temperature sensor and has a hiagher range rating than some of the others. That means to me that it might not be quite as accurate as the official coolant temperature sensor, but at least it might be better protected against higher temps. I will have to check my gauge with resistors to see what ohm range qualifies as normal operating temp and what ohm range indicates it is getting to overheating temperatures.
It certainly is better than what I have now.

That chart may make it easier to select other sensors that might be closer to the called for specs of the gauge cluster.
 
Honestly I think I'd look at the Autometer short sweep senders if I needed something quickly. May even be able to find it in the "hotrod" section of auto parts stores. I worked on the cutter this morning, so I didn't mess with the tractor. I might throw the Sparex sender in tomorrow.
 
Oh, your sender is inaccurate too? If so scrath the Autometer because I think it's going to end up close to what you have since it's 1100 ohm at 100*C and 60 at 250*C
 
Sammorgan3,

Quote: "Oh, your sender is inaccurate too? If so scrath the Autometer because I think it's going to end up close to what you have since it's 1100 ohm at 100*C and 60 at 250*C"

I note that your post says 1100 ohms at 100*C and 60 ohms at 250*C. Are you sure you meant Celsius degrees and not Fahrenheit?



I did not mean that inaccurate. I was just speculating because the sender is rated up to 150 degrees Celsius where some senders are rated up to 120 degrees Celsius. That might not represent any variation in accuracy. What I now have to do is take some alligator clips and measure the ohms at about 140 F and again at boiling 212. F. The reason I use boiling water is that it is a known quantity at sea level and be calculated for changes in altitude. The height above sea level where I live is only 210 feet so water boils here at about 211.7 F which is not enough to matter. Most of Mississippi is less than 500 feet above sea level so the most this could affect a sensor is about 1 F degree. I don't think precision beyond 1-3 F. degrees is necessary unless someone has a digital temperature gauge.

Then I have to take equivalent resistors and use them to simulate these meter readings as a resistor function on the temperature meter. There can also be some variation in the D'arsonval meters. so I now have three different sensors so I can check these against the meter's calibration.

I do need confirmation of the normal operating temperature of Ford three cylinder tractors. I have read that the normal range is 200 to about 215 F degrees. Do most of you agree or has anyone actually measured it on their tractor?
 
Sammorgan3,

Well I installed two new WT903 sensors. One in the 4000 and one in a
Dexta. Now I am going to check out the gauge responses.
Hopefully I can get it done before the week end is over.

I wish I had a K type thermocouple meter like you do. It would make the job a lot easier since thermocouple junction have predictable Seebeck coefficients and know millivolt outputs per degree.

I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and eventually get a thermocouple meter. I could make one, but having to use a cup of ice water as a junction reference does not make for a very portable instrument. I don't have the equipment to make a solid state temperature compensating junction reference. Also I actually want to use the tractors and am going to have trade precision accuracy for practical accuracy.
 
I don't know how accurate it would be. Surely close enough for tractor work:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TM-902C-LC...2273842599&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Likewise on the temp gun:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Temp-Meter...25&hash=item1a30ef6af0:g:tXMAAOSwsW9Y0ej8

I work for Milwaukee Tools, and I bought one of theirs during an employee sale. But I've heard the cheapo Chinese versions are adequate. For the prices I wouldn't complain too much even if they're some degrees off. Can always calibrate even if you needed an offset chart.
 
Thanks,

I already have two infrared guns, but I think direct immersion would be necessary to get a close reading. I looked at the offerings everywhere, but I am a bit leary of meters from the land of almost right as someone called it. Maybe I will order one or two at that price or get one that is shipped from a U.S. site.

I need to go to sleep. I have too much to do and I am going to pay enough already for staying up this late.

DL
 
Searching "Thermocouple meter" on Amazon brings up quite a few too, with a much better review system. All of them seem to have accuracy problems.

This one looks OK. One guy complained about accuracy 8* off from a Fluke. http://a.co/4bO1rIC

Here's a panel mount model, EGT temps for hot rodding an old Ford? :D http://a.co/hShFtsu
 
For some reason on page six of this topic the character length formatting is off and sentences run off the page.

I looked at the specs for the handheld unit and there is a calibration function. About 25 percent complained about inaccuracy. It could be poor quality control. (not unusual) Accidental recalibration. Bad a/d converters. Not dual slope converters? All of the thermocouples should read the same if they are K type. So it is wise to have at least three probes to check the calibration. It really is not rocket science to understand these. All these meters do is convert the millivolts mathematically
to the standard for the K type thermocouple. It should be a set formula. So If the thermocouples are okay the problem should be in the meter portion. Just guessing.

Yes, Amazon has better customer reviews. I usually don't trust them if there are 15-20 or less. But they do list verified customers.
 
I admire your perseverance for sure!, but I do believe that =/-5F or even +/-10F will be perfectly accurate enough for engine temperature gauges on tractors. Lot of good info turned up in the thread, however.
 
Our car had a catastrophic water pump seal failure that resulted in a totally destroyed engine. It can cost $1500 to $5,000 to replace.

The temperature sensor sits high so it would not have registered this and the car does not have a coolant level sensor. Never the less it did sensitize us to making sure everything coolant wise is in order.
 
I had to break this into three posts because the naughty sensor thought erroneously that there were bad words or phrases in the post.
 
Well I got the new sender installed. Gauge moves much less when turning the key on but I haven't had a chance to run the tractor. Spent my day off fussing with a riding mower I'm trying to sell.
 
Well, small update. Gauge just touches red when the head is running about 140* according to my IR gun. :? Still gunna have to mess with it. May order in one of those higher resistance BWD senders after all. Pretty sure the motor has no thermostat, might as well get a thermostat and a new water pump too. Dunno what kind of shape the pump on it is in.
 
sammorgan3,

If you need a universal fudge factor device (UFFD) to compensate for variations in meter sensitivity, offset, and gain let me know.

I am thinking of kluging up a simple one to save people time hunting for the right stuff. It would be a work around, but contrary to the definition of kluge it would be a rather simple almost elegant solution to everyone's problems concerning meter inaccuracies if it saves people time and is not expensive (a relative term).
 
(quoted from post at 11:18:56 06/19/18) sammorgan3,

If you need a universal fudge factor device (UFFD) to compensate for variations in meter sensitivity, offset, and gain let me know.

I am thinking of kluging up a simple one to save people time hunting for the right stuff. It would be a work around, but contrary to the definition of kluge it would be a rather simple almost elegant solution to everyone's problems concerning meter inaccuracies if it saves people time and is not expensive (a relative term).

A resistor in series with the sender unit? You dont need cold to be correct, only hot to be correct.

Same with fuel, you only need empty to be correct.
 
Ya I was really hoping to not add a series resistor if I could help it. Doesn't look like there's much choice though. I'll poke around with it and see what I come up with.
 
There might be another way, but I have not tested it.

Parallel a higher reading resistor (4-6k?) between sensor output and ground. Then put a series resistor between the output and the meter. The parallel resistor would tend to limit the range when in combination with the series limiting resistor. A change in sensor resistance would have less effect because of the fixed parallel resistor. ???
 
Hm... A parallel resistor always decreases resistance though, because there's two paths for current to travel. Adding one parallel to ground would effectively decrease the resistance from the gauge to ground, making it show an even higher temperature.

You'd have to parallel it to +12v to offset the resistance to ground, making sort of a voltage divider. But at the same time that's going to increase the current being sinked by the temp sender. I think the best way would be a series resistor in line between the gauge and the sender. Either that or limiting the voltage that gets to the hot side of the gauge.

I'll take the sender back out of mine and do some tests to see the resistance at temperature and how much current it's sinking. Not sure if a 1/4W resistor will work, may need something bigger.
 
Oh crap. I see what you're saying now.

Yes, a parallel resistor would buffer the resistance swing of the sender. A higher value would buffer it less, a lower value would buffer it more. Not sure if that's what we really want though. You'd still want the gauge to be able to show you an overheat condition.
 
I'm ordering a thermostat and water pump now for mine. May as well change pump if I'm going to be wrenching anyway. Didn't seem to have very strong flow in the radiator even though it wasn't getting above 140*

Can't hurt to change 50 year old pump anyway. New thermo pushing engine up to 190* is really going to peg the gauge though so I'll definitely be needing to run those tests. :lol:

I actually have a PID box I made with a K thermocouple for controlling my LEE bottom pour lead pot. I need to go get a hot plate. Little 50/50 coolant mix in a boiler and I can fine tune whatever temps I want to test. 8)
 
All,
Well this thing is on page 13 (in classic view) and takes up almost a whole page by itself. WOW!!!!
To the original poster, did you actually buy the temp sender from the same place that you bought the cluster from?
If I am understanding this whole thing correctly the ones you have now do not match up.
The whole temp sender reading too high thing, is a classic case of a miss match in components. Cluster, sender and in some cases Voltage Stabilizer.
Have you tried a voltage stabilizer in this circuit? It would reduce the voltage in the circuit giving the same result as increasing the resistance.

I think all of us would like to see you get this resolved. Maybe you can get some sleep then. LOL! (looks like you post late at night)
HTH
Keith
 
I should have mentioned that the resistance of the limiting resistor would have to be increased if a parallel resistor were installed on the sensor output and ground. Yes it is a voltage divider; well of sorts. Usually a voltage divider sources from v+ (or voltage reference) to ground with a central wiper tap if adjustable. Here you would have a high impedance on the meter to use as a reference. In this case the difference is just one fixed and one variable resistor tied in parallel and current draw depending on the resistance of the meter. I am going to have to learn how to use some graphics interface to display my thoughts. ---some day.
 
A parallel resistor is a current divider, not a voltage divider. What you have been describing is two resistances being added to the original circuit, one in series with the original sender and one in parallel with it, so the one in series is providing a voltage drop to the sender, and the one in parallel is providing a current drop. By varying the two additional resistances properly you should be able to come up with a combination that makes the gauge read close to the true temperature over a certain part of its range, but it can never be accurate for the entire range, but all you're worried about is proper readings at the hot end, say 160 to 240 degrees or thereabouts, and that should be doable with the two resistor approach.
 
Easiest way to get close is to measure the resistance of the sender when it is in the middle of the temperature range that you're concerned about, say 205 degrees. Just put the sender in some water on the stove and heat it until a thermometer says the water is at 205 degrees and then measure the resistance of the sender.

Then use a variable resistor in series with the gauge with nothing else in the circuit and adjust the resistor until the gauge reads 205 degrees with 14.5 volts applied (or whatever the charging circuit of the tractor puts out when it is running properly).

Then use the series and parallel resistance formulas to get the entire circuit of the sender and the two additional resistors to equal what the sender wants to see at 205 degrees. There will be many combinations of values for the two resistors that will accomplish this, but I believe that the closer the value of the parallel resistor is to the sender's resistance at 205 degrees will be the one that gives you the most accuracy over the largest range of temperatures. I haven't done the math so it may be a little higher or lower than that, but I don't think it would be off by much.
 
OK. Throwing a pot on the gauge shows middle of the range, needle straight down at a resistance of 450ohm with alternator charging. (Mine charges at 14.7v) With engine off, just on battery voltage, it showed a bit colder. Had to turn pot down to 330ohm to get needle back vertical. So with my gauge I should be looking for a resistance of 450ohm at 180*F
 
Ok here's what I measured with the pot:

Middle of range, needle straight down: 450ohm
Touching red: 270ohm
Full red, over second dot at end of travel: 160ohm

So I'm thinking we should look for 450ohm at 190*F and 160ohm at 250*F

Something like that anyway.

As far as I know 50/50 mix boils at 223*F atmospheric and about 250*F under 7psi pressure.
 
What do Ford 4000 owners consider normal upper coolant temperature range before a blown head gasket or worse damage occurs? I know I made a rough guess earlier, but when your horse has some age/mileage on it you need to know if it will cross the desert or leave you having to dig a lot of sand.
 
That I don't know. I'd imagine you'd want red line around 220-230 or so. That way there's time to ease the load off and let the radiator cool it down while running. I bought a 180 thermo, running diesel too cold not supposed to be good for them. Fuel wash on cyl walls. Will have to consult dad the diesel mechanic on it.
 
The following pages, image or what ever shows up is from Air Cooled Motor Engines by Julius Mackerle. 476 pages.

The actual pages are 285-286.

SNTL-Publishers of Technical Literature, Prague
and Cleaver-Hume Press Ltd, London . 1961 Authorized English edition.
[/img]
 
Well, I could not transfer the information on my pdf file. I will have to find another way. It could be my Chromebook. The image shows information on cylinder vs temperature wear on air-cooled and water-cooled engines.

The 1972 edition used is $372. It is out of print. While I was able to download the 1961 edition, I cannot copy the image even though I credit the author and publisher.
 
(quoted from post at 01:26:47 06/25/18) Julius Mackerle has passed away but the copyright expires in 2079. O'boy. Can't wait.

Copyright law doesn't protect actual data and information in a technical document, only the "manner in which it is organized and presented", so anyone should be able to read that document, copy the data out of it and then change the way it is presented or formatted and publish it without fear of copyright violation.

Could you imagine if someone could copyright the boiling point of water at sea level, or ohm's law? That's why the courts have ruled over and over that actual data and information cannot be protected by copyright. Even copyrights on history textbooks only protect the author's specific phrasing of the descriptions of the historical facts, not the facts themselves.
 
I will have to photograph the drawings and redraw them with photo shop. For some reason the photos will not copy. I think it is important to see them.
 

I take a photo with my phone then email it to myself, then sent it to my photo album, I can down load them from there.
I can keep the photo or delete it if I think using it is a one time thing.

Is there supposed to be a decimal point somewhere in that $1948
 

Sounds like a interesting book, but probably one I'll never own at those prices.

Todays engines run a good bit hotter but this is how most of my older semi's where set up.
They had 172 degree tstats
The clutch fan turned on at 200 degrees
The temp warning alarm come on at 205-210 degrees
We normally started backing off at that point to get them cooled down some.
If temps hit 220 we shut them down.
I like to apply the same theory to my tractor engines but with gauges that don't have numbers it's hard to tell.
Most times if the gauge goes into the red or it starts pushing coolant out the overflow I back off and try to cool it down some.

I have considered installing a temperature warning sensor like big trucks have and adding another light the the dash, most of the aftermarket gauge panels have extra spaces for additional warning lights like those on later models.

On my 4000AP I added a light connected to the thermostart post on the key switch, when the light comes on I know I have the key in the proper position for cold weather starting.
 
Destroked 450,

A friend of mine has one of the 1961 or 1972 books. I did copy some of what I consider the more important parts like I wanted to post. I think I gave them to my brother, but I might have some around somewhere. That hard cover book was worn to a point the spine was broken and pages were falling out. I will take a picture and post it if I can.
I think having an over heat signal is good. I considered putting one in with a fuel solenoid to shut the engine off it it overheated. I am not always attentive to red lights especially in bright sun so something else would be better for someone like me.
 
I forgot. There are a number of copies of the book available from interlibrary loan at some libraries. I don't remember if the borrower has to pay shipping and it might depend how far away the lending library is.

To sum it up. There are a lot of newer books with electronics incorporated in environmental controls, but this book is more comprehensive and probably the basis for a lot of the groundwork used by technologies today.



.
 
I drew up an arm to clip my K probe and hold a sender onto the lip of a pot. Ya, I could make something simple to do it, or I can use a little plastic and let the machine crank it out while I'm doing other stuff. 8)

Even gave it some speed holes so I get results faster.

19105.jpg
 
Ok, got it put back together with a 180 thermostat (Was empty and glued shut with silicone.) and a new (crappy looking) water pump. Head got up to 200, burped it one more time and hose heated up, added more water and checked again, head at 180. Had to run it at 1400 to even get it to heat up, it leveled off at 140 at low rpm and didn't get any hotter. It leveled off at 180 while I ran it though, cooling just fine. Bottom rad hose a good 50 cooler according to my calibrated hand, so radiator is good and clear. Dropping to idle for a few minutes had the head back down at 160, so it seems I don't have a cooling problem. At least under no load. Once this rain clears out I'll finish up a few little welds on the cutter and take it for a cut.

Just printed out the sender holder while I was working on tractor, should have some results from that in the next couple days.
 
PLA got bad soft at 160*F :oops:

I clamped the probe and the sender to the side of the pot.

Looks like a straight series resistor isn't going to work. Here's my results from the Sparex sender:

180* - 150ohm
210* - 90ohm
220* - 75ohm

Gauge needs:

450ohm - center of travel
270ohm - touching red
160ohm - pegged red

I did test and see that the gauge is pushing system voltage to the sender, which means it's looking to drop:

32mA - center of travel
53mA - touching red
90mA - full overheat

Now, a quick little calculation shows that 5v dropping across:

150ohm - 33mA
90ohm - 55mA

To reach 90mA it would need 55ohm, since this sender is for automotive engine use, I'm going to assume we're well within the linear region, so 55ohm should be somewhere around 235*F. My pot of antifreeze was steaming and starting to boil so I ended the test at 220*

So if I just limit the voltage at the gauge to 5v the Sparex sender should work beautifully, showing 180*F in the middle of the range, and 210*F just touching the red line. Rather than making a board with a 7805 and dealing with vibration, cooling, all of that, I think I'll order an automotive buck converter and splice it in.
 
Are these buck converters the off the shelf step down switchers sold on line?

They are more efficient than series pass regulators but for the amount of power I would use a 3 terminal. I was still a little surprised that the amount of current for full deflection was 90 ma.
 
They're pretty common, doubt you'd find one in a parts house. Here's the one I'm looking at, mostly because of the heatsink. May be getting a bit large to mount to the cluster though. Maybe under the dash would be fine.

http://a.co/cmf7pIN

Here's a much smaller one that still has more than enough capacity.

http://a.co/90WEygK

Speaking of capacity, I should probably check to see how the fuel gauge is reading. :lol:

I mean if you get right down to it, it's as simple as hacking up a car charger for a cellphone. MicroUSB chargers all put out regulated 5v at least 1A.
 
I was also thinking of the adjustable output bucking converters, but it is nice to know about the ones that are already potted.
 
The only thing I have hacked up lately is a hairball. lol

I guess yes a usb charger would also do since they can deliver an amp. I had not thought of that. Some don't even need a cigarette lighter receptacle. Repurposed?

Are the usb chargers linear or switchers?
 
I would imagine most of the off the shelf supplies you could find would be switchers. Especially the little mini cigarette lighter plug ones. Dissippating 9W of power to go from 14v - 5v at one amp would be pretty difficult with as small as they are.
 
That makes sense. Somewhere along the line people began to think that when transistors replaced tubes they did not need to consider heat dissipation. That is what makes switchers better. I have seen them in combination on computer boards where the switcher was used to convert the voltage down to just above the needed voltage and a linear used to finalize the output to remove ripple and provide a more stable output.
 
The size of the heatsinks on the IGBTs in an inverter would beg to differ with those people that think heat dissipation doesn't matter with transistors. :lol:
 
(quoted from post at 06:49:15 07/05/18)
Oh and my pot of antifreeze mix started boiling at about 230*F and got no hotter, that was 70ohm.

It may get hotter in a closed system with a 4 or 7 lb. radiator cap.

Oh it would. Would also get hotter if it were closer to a 50/50 mix instead of the roughly 33/66 that it was. But that was hot enough for a test. If the motor is at 230* it needs to be unloaded or shut down.
 
Well I did a little cutting today with it. Stopped pretty frequently to shoot the head with my IR gun. Steady at 185* while cutting up by the shop. Went into some heavier stuff and came back it read 192* so it seems to be just fine. Had a little dribble out of the vent line but the bottom of the rad still read 90* I don't think I lost any serious amount of water. Didn't cut any more of the heavier stuff after that since it's a bit further from the shop where I left the IR gun laying. Going to baby it till I get the temp gauge working, but so far the cooling system seems fine.
 
So after all this (on page 21 now and will fall into the archives soon) you found that you needed the voltage stabilizer that this site said you needed all along.
I'm just not following your need to re-invent the wheel here???????
Was it really worth all that aggravation just so you could end up saving the 4 dollars????
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/C7NN10N507A_Voltage-Instrument-Stabilizer_5383.htm $16.35 vs $12.59
 
That's not how the cluster works.
I don't have bimetallic gauges. I have magnetic gauges. I've mentioned that before. You haven't paid attention.

The stabilizer is not a regulator, it blinks the voltage on and off constantly, which would make the magnetic gauge simply jump from hot to cold constantly.

Let me spell it out again. I have a new cluster, which is the same one on the newer model tractors that have a 3/8npt sender instead of the 1/8npt sender. This is the only cluster available, and it does not match up with the 1/8npt sender.
 

I converted my 4000's cluster over in 2000, at that time they offered a 1/8 sender for the newer clusters but I haven't been able to find it in the parts listing lately.

I'd like to find it again has I'll be converting my 4000SU over in the near future, already have the tach drive installed in the block.

If it comes down to it I guess I'll pull the front off and drill the head for the larger sender.

Also have a 5000 that will get converted some day.
 
I couldn't find one that said anything about magnetic gauges on older tractors, several outlets list the same part number but I've gotten two vastly different senders with the same #. Aftermarket parts for these old tractors are a crap shoot. So far I've had Brake pedal bushings that don't come close to being right, a brake cross shaft that had a Woodruff key slot 0.030" too narrow and 0.020" too shallow, tachometer drive cable was too big on both ends, had to be hand fit to alternator and tachometer, and the sender fiasco.
 
Doesn't work. :x

With 5v supplying the gauge it needs 50ohm to read midway and straight to ground doesn't even reach the red zone. Probably going to be internal resistance of the gauge itself throwing it off. Math wise it should work just right.

Guess I'll be retapping the head to 3/8.
 
Know what? I'm not tapping the head.

I'm going to scab an external temp gauge on it, use my friggin tractor, and either order one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-INSTRU...er&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

Or if this "Lost PLA" aluminum casting thing I'm playing with works out make my own this winter and put actual gauges on my tractor. I'm tired of trying to scab this crap together. These replacement clusters are not for straight thousand series tractors, I don't care how they're labeled.
 

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