Antique metal wagon wheel removal help

fpappal

Member
I posted a while back about making wooden axles for an old farm wagon. This is really my fathers project so I am posting this for him. When he was a kid (he is 79 now) this wheel was actually part of a wagon used to haul onions off the muck. He can remember using a large wrench to unscrew the square center. That would allow the wheel to come off and he would have to slather grease all over it and then put it back on. These wheels have been out in the weather for decades and we are just starting to try and get them apart. The wrench is long gone so we are going to have one made up. What he can't remember is if the threads were right hand or left hand? He feels that they may have been designed so they would always tighten but he can't remember. So before I start trying to get these hubs apart does anyone know the thread direction? I would hate to be tightening them the whole time I am trying to get them off! If they were designed to always tighten how the heck am I going to know which direction to loosen them? I am not even sure I can get the square centers to turn, going to take a lot of heat I am sure. If you have any experience with old wagon wheels like these I would appreciate the help.
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Right right left left. They have likely been off the wagon so long that you do not know which side or the direction of travel
 
Right side facing forward in wagon have right hand threads, left side has lefty threads. This will keep nuts from getting loose as wheels go forward. You may need big wrench and cheater to loosen and maybe a torch. Little propane torch will not get hot enough. When it loosens it will pop loose all at once . BTDT. Getting the skeins or thimbles off the old axle wood is where the real challenge is at.
 
The old axle wood is gone, rotted away. I have no idea which wheel was in which location on the wagon. Therefore I have no idea which one is right hand and left hand, correct? I have tried to use a pipe wrench on the square centers and when I do the square center turns inside the wheel. So the skeins appear to be loose. Are the skeins the oval shaped pieces? I know nothing about these wagon wheels, learning as I go.
 
You are correct. They have been in a pile for years. I actually used a metal detector to find many of the original brackets. From what my father can remember, all the pieces are there. Just matter of putting it all back together, and making axles.
 
If you clean the grease, rust, dirt off the ends you should be able to see some of the thread. I have a hay wagon with that type of axle and the tapered spindles have grooves worn in the bottom.
 
Take a wire brush and clean up the nuts. They sometimes have a R or L cast.
into them.
BE VERY CAREFUL removing wheels from hubs.
Lay them flat on the ground and let penetrating oil soak in them a few days.
The hubs are a little easy to break. A small amount of heat around the wheel where it fits over the hub might help.
I am working on a wagon now.
If the open end of the hubs were laying up, water may have stood and froze and broken the hubs like 2 of mine did.
Photo of the wagon I am building.
Richard in NW SC
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Thanks for all the replies. I never would have believed it but I actually got one of the square nuts off today. My father went to the local metal fabrication facility and had a new wrench made. The square nut is about 1/2 inch thick, but half of that is inside the hub so there is not much to grip. He had a round wrench made with a square hole so it grabs the entire 1/2 inch of the nut. On the back side of the skein (I think that is what you call it), the oval shaped part, we used a chain wrench with a long 2 ft pole on the handle to secure it. I put the new wrench on the square nut and gave it a few wacks with a large hammer. Nothing happened. Not knowing the direction of the threads we reversed the chain wrench and I tried to hammer it in the opposite direction. After a couple good wacks it actually moved! The rest was easy and it walked right off. These rims have been sitting outside in the woods for probably 40 years. I am totally amazed that I was able to break the nut loose. You could even see the old grease still on the threads, and it didn't look all that bad. So tomorrow I will try the other three, hopefully things work out as easy as this first one.

Next step is making axles....
 
I just made a couple axles. If you have good wood inside the skein keep that for a pattern. I used 4"x5" white oak or white ash. White oak will last longer. It is a slow and tedious process.
 
Whack the nurse somewhat hard with a hammer, then spray BLASTER on them, and let set a day. Do the same thing tomorrow, and let set. Nest day whack them again, and spray, then try the wrench. Pipe wrench works also.
 
In bygone years I've needed a wrench like you said you need. It's easy to make your own. For instance if it needs to fit a 2" nut, get a piece of 2" flat stock a quarter inch or so thick, weld pieces to the edges of the flat stock. And if you want to fit all sides of the nut weld another 2" piece to close between the other two shorter pieces.
 
A pipe wrench will not fit back in the wheel the nut is resesed in. To many wagons with that type of wheel to count.
 
If you don't mind sharing your secrets, how exactly did you go about making the axles? Did you use all hand tools or power tools as well? Which kind of tools did you use? I have no wood inside the skein, it all rotted away. Any easy way to make a pattern? I was thinking about pouring something inside them to make a mold. Not exactly sure how to go about doing that though.
 

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I used a bandsaw to rough out, wood chisel, drawknife and belt sander. Lots of test fits until the skein was all the way on and snug. I used paint to tell where I had a high spot and wood needed to be removed. I think I had about 4 hours in one axle. Yes it is tedious and you need sharp tools and be patient. BTW, the axles need to be about 6' long. Watch some videos on YOU TUBE by Engels Coach Shop. He shows how to make a wagon and all the hardware. He just has not made a video on axles yet but says he will soon. There may be easier ways to make an axle but I haven't been able to figure it out. In the old days they must of been factory made on a big lathe that was designed to cut the offset cone oval.
 

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