Changing to Electronic Ignition

Hello: I have an 8N, front mounted distributor, that I converted to 12 volts a number of years ago. I recently noticed that electronic ignition kits are now available for it. I understand that if I covert to this ignition, I need to change my coil to a 12V coil ( I've used the old 6V for years without problem). Also, I understand that I need to use regular, automotive plug wire instead of the copper ones I use know. I would appreciate any info/opinions/ feedback on this type of conversion. Thank you for your time and expertise.
 
(quoted from post at 22:21:22 04/17/12) Hello: I have an 8N, front mounted distributor, that I converted to 12 volts a number of years ago. I recently noticed that electronic ignition kits are now available for it. I understand that if I covert to this ignition, I need to change my coil to a 12V coil ( I've used the old 6V for years without problem). Also, I understand that I need to use regular, automotive plug wire instead of the copper ones I use know. I would appreciate any info/opinions/ feedback on this type of conversion. Thank you for your time and expertise.

Yes, use the square can 12V coil. The EI will replace the points plate under the snap ring inside the distributor. You will have to drill a hole in the side of the distributor to run the wire thru. I put silicone around the wire. I quickly tired of maintaining points with a Wagner loader on the front of the tractor. As far as plug wires, I used the automotive type, which is what the CNH dealer in my area sells.
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The EI debate comes up here w/ such frequency that you would benefit from doing an archives search on the topic so that you can make an informed decision based upon factual information. Generally speaking, you will find a few facts, a lot of opinion, & some BS (“ my EI system doesn't have any transistors... “) . You will also find factual information that isn’t the least bit relevant to installing EI on a 23 hp, 60 year old tractor. (“the automotive industry went to EI 35 years ago”) You will also hear a lot of invalid comparisons as well. (Vacuum tubes in electronics, old straight weight oil, etc)

Once you parse out the illogical comparisons, BS & ill-tempered rants, there are specific factual pros & cons for keeping a points system and for using EI on an N. What it really comes down to however, is your use of the tractor & your ability (or interest) to perform maintenance on the tractor. Points require annual maintenance & replacement usually every 4 or 5 years. The EI unit itself does not have annual maintenance requirements.

I’ll offer my rationale for keeping the points in my N’s; if our experience & situation are similar, then perhaps EI isn’t the answer for you either.

Knowledge. I was probably 13 or 14 when I learned how to change a set of points; that was in 1962 or 63. Every car I owned up until 1976 had points. I can fix them or change them & I have the tools to do it; I understand how they work & understand the need to use quality parts. But, while I understand how EI works, I do not have the tools or knowledge to fix it when it breaks. When it stops, it stops. You aren't going to get it going again w/ a finger nail file, screwdriver & a dime to set the gap. Even as frustrating as points can be at times, worst case scenario is replace them for $16 and continue work. Not so w/ that EI unless you have some hi-tech testing equipment & the skills to use it. Don’t use the reliability of the EI on your car or truck as a benchmark for longevity on your N. Your car’s ignition system was designed for the EI & uses far different materials at much closer tolerances than your 60 year old tractor’s ignition system, designed for points. There are many specific & valid reasons that vehicles today use EI & most of those reasons are not applicable to a 23 hp, 2400 rpm 60 year old tractor engine. If you think an EI on these N’s is foolproof, then do that archive search I suggested. You will see many examples of folks who are not pleased to spend $135 for something that will fail & can't be fixed by the average-Joe tractor owner. And, I'm also amazed at some of the EI owners around here who will constantly tell us how infallible EI is every time the debate comes up but are strangely silent when a unit malfunctions.

6v System. All of my N’s are 6v & I haven’t had a reason to convert them to 12v. And, because of the precise voltage requirements of EI (it won’t work below 5.2v) EI on a 6v system is just a problem waiting to happen.

Maintenance. I keep my 2 front distributor & 1 side distributor N’s well maintained. Contrary to what some folks will tell you, EI will not cure a bad rotor or cap, worn plug wires, a bad ballast resistor, an ill-fitting coil or any other typical ignition problems found on these old tractors. The EI is only going to be as good as the system it’s installed on. All you get by putting an EI on an N w/ these problems is a poorly running N w/ an EI instead of points.

Consequence of error. If I hook up the battery cables backward on my points system nothing happens to them. Reverse polarity on an EI and it fries. If I leave the key on & the points are closed, I melt the points & probably the coil. That’s a $40 mistake. If you leave the key on w/ EI, that’s a $150 mistake.

Cost. I can replace a lot of points for the cost of EI. And, in my case, I’d need to convert the tractor to 12v, so that’s a total cost of around $235.

EI does not give you higher spark voltage, eliminate all maintenance on your ignition system or give enough of a horsepower boost to cause the tractor to do wheelies. It replaces the points. That’s it. It will not correct or overcome other problems in the ignition system. While it may give you more HP or improve fuel economy, both would be so insignificant as to be hardly noticeable on a 23 hp engine. If you can’t set points or don’t care to do it, or you don’t want to spend the 30 minutes or so a year to check the gap & lube the cam, then you will be happy w/ EI. And, the EI unit itself will be maintenance free. (but the rest of the ignition system won’t) You will spend probably $235 for an EI kit & 12v conversion. If you install them correctly you will have an easy starting tractor for a long time. And, the 12 volt conversion & EI will have just about nothing to do w/ the good performance. What will make the real difference is the new wiring, cables, clean grounds & new battery.

The key advantage to EI is that you do not need to gap & lube the points every year & replace them every 4 or 5 years or. If you perform annual maintenance on the points & change them every 4 years or so using quality parts, you will see no difference whatsoever between a points ignition system & EI on an N.

The key disadvantages to EI on an N are initial cost, nearly impossible for the average N owner to repair, will not work w/ low battery voltage, & easily damaged beyond repair by polarity reversal & other common mistakes.

Bottom line……….this is the question you need to answer: “If tens of thousands of other N’s operate just fine on 6v and points, why can’t mine?”
50 Tips
 
Put a Pertonix in my 8N front mountabout a year and a half ago. Came with a plate to cover the top of Dist. with a fitting for a round can 12 volt coil.

Worked great for the year and a half it was in there. was plowing snow, Tractor quit running, in the middle of the road, after checking it out found the Elec. Ing had taken a dump.

Switched back to a point system and has run great ever since.

Hope it works better for you.
BP
 
Steven, I was considering doing the IE upgrade while I am rebuilding my engine. I am going to 12 volt but not IE. With only one IE available and the only way to get parts is to order on line I decided to keep it points. I just can't wait sometimes for days to get parts in and I'm not really going to spring for overnight when I putting up hay or something. Nor am I going to pay for expensive parts to sit on the shelf in case something goes wrong. Now if my local parts store was to start selling em and would keep parts in stock......I really hate the front mount as having knee and back problems makes it even harder to work on. I use my N enough that it needs done 2-3 times a year.

If you are counting on an HP gain note they claim on some products (UP TO) x amount of hp gain, most often stated in %. If you really need the extra HP then you need a bigger tractor.

Rick
 

Its very doable even iff'in you have haft a brain... Plug wires are a non issue in this case BTDT made the swap to prove it to myself... No need to rite a book its as simple as it gets... I would wager 99.9% of the folks that claim to have issues with EI have no idea how to diagnosis this simple set up... EI suffers form the same issues a points set up suffers from,,, theirs no magic to it... If it will effect a points set up it will effect a EI set up...

The only issue I have had with yer EI set up is it can not deal with a failing coil but a points set up can short term anyways....
 
I just can't wait sometimes for days to get parts in and I'm not really going to spring for overnight when I putting up hay or something. Nor am I going to pay for expensive parts to sit on the shelf in case something goes wrong.

If you don't want an EI system thats fine , and your business .

You do not have to damage the distributor to convert to EI and in a few minutes you can reinstall points IF the need arises .

Some of us have gotten 36 years from a set of points , he he , but I have not had a lick of problems from my EI unit .

I do not care for the plate and screw in terminal that is sold in the kit . Either 12v system would benefit from a gutted square coil to round can conversion .
 
Steven,
This is a great board and the good folks here are very helpful. But they are odd in some ways.
Unlike you and I they just can not recognize the benefits of going to 12V.
You'll read lots of silly things like:
"6V worked for my grandpa so it will work for me."
Or, "I like to keep my tractor all original."

It doesn't seem to register in their minds that in almost every way electrics, rubber, lubricants, metalurgy, paints, etc have improved since these tractors were built.
So every time they change oil, put on new tires, buy a battery, paint or install new rings they are modernizing their tractor anyway.
The ones I like the best are the ones with 9/2Ns who fiercly advocate for originality. Then paint their tractors Red.
To each his own of course.
But going back to EI;
You will hear all kinds of horror stories about how EI failed and left someone in the lurch.
"My Dad's, cousin's neighbor's girlfriend's brother put EI in his tractor and it failed. EI is bad."
Not that they ever tried it themselves...
But you'll rarely hear of all the EI units that were installed and after years of service are still chugging along.
Because a good starting, good running, maintenance free tractor is just not as newsworthy as a tale of woe.
I put EI in one of my tractors 6 years ago and have not touched the distributer since.
For the first 4 years I kept a set of points and condenser under the hood - just in case. But I never needed them so used them on another tractor.
I am selling that tractor now so wont be able to give updates on EI in the future. But I am convinced that if you like the notion of "set em and forget em" EI is for you.
Now watch the luddites gnash and wail about this post. They always do.
But do as I do and pay them no never mind.
 
(quoted from post at 22:21:22 04/17/12) Hello: I have an 8N, front mounted distributor, that I converted to 12 volts a number of years ago. I recently noticed that electronic ignition kits are now available for it. I understand that if I covert to this ignition, I need to change my coil to a 12V coil ( I've used the old 6V for years without problem). Also, I understand that I need to use regular, automotive plug wire instead of the copper ones I use know. I would appreciate any info/opinions/ feedback on this type of conversion. Thank you for your time and expertise.

One thing I will add, even though I have an EI in my tractor, I kept the old points set up and mounting plate. Changing BACK to points, if needed, is about as quick as changing points. About 15 min. In my case I did it for convenience around June of 2010. So far, no problems. If you do the conversion, the EI on this site is $165.14 for a front mount 12V negative ground, including the coil.

http://www.ytmag.com/1247XT_4945.htm
 

Another thing to consider, while contemplating on trying Electronic Ignition or keeping points, our Amish farrier was here shoeing the horses shook his head and said, "With a good pair of Belgians, you don't need that tractor at all". Kind of puts it all in perspective, doesn't it.
 
(quoted from post at 20:44:46 04/17/12)
I just can't wait sometimes for days to get parts in and I'm not really going to spring for overnight when I putting up hay or something. Nor am I going to pay for expensive parts to sit on the shelf in case something goes wrong.

If you don't want an EI system thats fine , and your business .

You do not have to damage the distributor to convert to EI and in a few minutes you can reinstall points IF the need arises .

Some of us have gotten 36 years from a set of points , he he , but I have not had a lick of problems from my EI unit .

I do not care for the plate and screw in terminal that is sold in the kit . Either 12v system would benefit from a gutted square coil to round can conversion .


Ken no you misunderstand what I was getting at. I do like IE. I would love it if my local parts store carried the parts on hand should something go out on it. But I use the heck out of my N farming, from now to Oct I'll put about 20 hours or more on it a week, sometimes 40 or more. Right now I have between 4-5 acres to plow, disk and dig as soon as it's back together (sometime today) plus 4 acres of lawn to mow and some bush cutting. I can't afford the possible down time should something go wrong. I'm also the kind of person that really hates to update something then revert it back so if I did convert I would want to keep it that way. I was just pointing out that parts being readily available should be considered before making the switch.

Rick
 
Ken no you misunderstand what I was getting at. I do like IE. I would love it if my local parts store carried the parts on hand should something go out on it. But I use the heck out of my N farming, from now to Oct I'll put about 20 hours or more on it a week, sometimes 40 or more. Right now I have between 4-5 acres to plow, disk and dig as soon as it's back together (sometime today) plus 4 acres of lawn to mow and some bush cutting. I can't afford the possible down time should something go wrong. I'm also the kind of person that really hates to update something then revert it back so if I did convert I would want to keep it that way. I was just pointing out that parts being readily available should be considered before making the switch.

Rick

Sounds like a good reason to get a few more N's . Most of us here can post the reasons we gave the Misses for getting another tractor . You will have to figure out which ones will work for you .
 
(quoted from post at 18:25:45 04/18/12)
Ken no you misunderstand what I was getting at. I do like IE. I would love it if my local parts store carried the parts on hand should something go out on it. But I use the heck out of my N farming, from now to Oct I'll put about 20 hours or more on it a week, sometimes 40 or more. Right now I have between 4-5 acres to plow, disk and dig as soon as it's back together (sometime today) plus 4 acres of lawn to mow and some bush cutting. I can't afford the possible down time should something go wrong. I'm also the kind of person that really hates to update something then revert it back so if I did convert I would want to keep it that way. I was just pointing out that parts being readily available should be considered before making the switch.

Rick

Sounds like a good reason to get a few more N's . Most of us here can post the reasons we gave the Misses for getting another tractor . You will have to figure out which ones will work for you .

LOL Ken, I've got her convinced....now I'm just shopping. The one I have now ran good and had good oil pressure until I changed oil the first time. I'm thinking that the PO was running 50W to sell the tractor. When I changed the oil the first time I used 15-40W and noticed a change on the pressure right away. It also started smoking right away. So this time I will be a little more careful. Here an ruff N will sell for 12-1500 or so. I am really looking for an NAA or 600 series that can use my current implements. Those start around 3500 here and go from there.

Hobo I'd love a Ford 2000 but here that's a 6K tractor and I don't have 6K to spend on one right now.

Rick
 
You seem to be the guy to ask....all these people who say get rid of that ballast resistor and 6 volt coil and go to a true 12 volt coil ( 12 volt conversion) I assume are referring to switching to EI as well ?? You can't use a 12 volt coil with points, correct??
 
Why are you using an old tractor? 165 bucks to replace a 3 buck set of points.Fool and his money are soon parted.
 
(quoted from post at 18:21:22 04/17/12) Hello: I have an 8N, front mounted distributor, that I converted to 12 volts a number of years ago. I recently noticed that electronic ignition kits are now available for it. I understand that if I covert to this ignition, I need to change my coil to a 12V coil ( I've used the old 6V for years without problem). Also, I understand that I need to use regular, automotive plug wire instead of the copper ones I use know. I would appreciate any info/opinions/ feedback on this type of conversion. Thank you for your time and expertise.

Lots of Fords here.
some with EI, some with points, all 12v
every time I get a spare $79, I switch another one to EI
(my experience....low maintenance, instant starts, no points dirty/slipped/wear issues,
forgiving of small wear in the dist bushings, better idle/low speed running)
I don't mess with square coils at all on my front mounts.
All get gutted, and all use a IC14SB round coil, EI or points.
(seems most new square coils are import junk and that pigtail setup is just silly)
EI doesn't forgive mistakes however. battery polarity must be correct always.
I unhook a battery cable whenever I work on an EI equipped
tractor. Key off when hooking it back up.
(since all of my tractors run alternators too, cable off is SOP,
as you WILL drop a wrench or accidentally hit a hot stud with
something eventually)
I haven't had an EI fail me yet, but if it does, I'd just buy another.
The benefits outweigh the risk for me.

I'm super cheap, but the $ for EI is money well spent for me.
Just wish there was some more $ competition out there.
Like 36 has posted, there ain't much to the EI.
at $30-$40 instead of $80-$100 dollars ALL my tractors would have it.
 
My points are on year 24 now.Checked the gap this spring.All gasoline engines use electrons to fire the fuel charge.Many people pee away money for things they dont need.
 
Not true you can use points with 12 volt. From the time 12 volt became the norm until IE came out as OEM in the 70's everything, cars, trucks, tractors were points.

Rick
 
36 everyone on here knows that you don't like IE and consider it a waste. Yet there are others on here, myself included that consider the front mount a PITA to work on and would like it to be hands off. Me, having bad knees and back problems and being 6'5" means kneeling and bending so R&I the dizzy can see me doing nothing for a day or two sometimes more. My other option would be to pay to have it done.....with the hours I put on at least twice a year. In my case IE would be a bargin if it would run trouble free just a couple of years.

Oh yea, I'd like to know where you are finding 3 buck points and condensers.....

Rick
 

Points AIN'T 3 bucks in this century!!!!! Try 10 to 20, and most now come from The Land of the Never Right. I have a set of points in my IH 240 running a 12V alternator. Put them in 20 years ago when my Dad owned it. And, it is easier to access. Front mount with a Wagner loader on it is a PITA to change.
 

Points AIN'T 3 bucks in this century!!!!! Try 10 to 20, and most now come from The Land of the Never Right. I have a set of points in my IH 240 running a 12V alternator. Put them in 20 years ago when my Dad owned it. And, it is easier to access. Front mount with a Wagner loader on it is a PITA to change.[/quote]een gettin along with points all my life, & probably too old to change now, but..........if I ever do, I won't be wiring my tractor up like the diagram posted above (Genesee I guess?).
 
LOL,
I guess some people lack the literary ability to understand that by replying negatively to my post they automatically implicate themselves as a luddite. One guy here in particular comes to mind :)
When it comes right down to it, if I have to choose between having good electrical skills or having good reading and comprehension skills I will choose the latter over the former.
And for those of you too lazy to look up that word here's a couple of links for you.

<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=luddite" target="_blank">Modern use of the term Luddite</a>

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite" target="_blank">Here's a history of the term</a>
 
Nah, dog. Don't get all big headed.......they simply disagree with you! Every body can have an "opinion" even you. :)
 
Name calling is seldom effective especially when you feel compelled to provide a definition of the term for those of us whom you obviously consider illiterate.

Your vehemence has more to do w/ hubris than the merits of your pro-EI arguments.
 
My use of some words obviously makes you feel uncomfortable Bruce.
Sorry about that.
So I'll ask it this way.
Are you speaking for yourself or for all the anti technology types everywhere.
 
Allow me to try another tack.

W/ but a couple notable exceptions, your pro-EI arguments are reasonably articulate & on point. Consequently, labeling those who disagree w/ you as Luddites serves no purpose whatsoever other than to diminish the strength of your arguments. What you are saying is "If you don't agree w/ me, it's not because I'm wrong, it's because you're stupid".

More to the point, using a horse instead of a tractor would be a better fit for your Luddite argument.

And, being anti-technology, I'll make sure to get out my quill pen & forward this to you on parchment.

By steamboat.
 

Points AIN'T 3 bucks in this century!!!!! Try 10 to 20, and most now come from The Land of the Never Right. I have a set of points in my IH 240 running a 12V alternator. Put them in 20 years ago when my Dad owned it. And, it is easier to access. Front mount with a Wagner loader on it is a PITA to change.[/quote]een gettin along with points all my life, &amp; probably too old to change now, but..........if I ever do, I won't be wiring my tractor up like the diagram posted above (Genesee I guess?).[/quote]

Been working since 6/2010. Was in the Pertronix box when I got it. Any variation voided the warranty. Are you seeing a problem with their setup? I've used the tractor several times a week since 2010. Just wondering what you think I need to watch for.
 

Points AIN'T 3 bucks in this century!!!!! Try 10 to 20, and most now come from The Land of the Never Right. I have a set of points in my IH 240 running a 12V alternator. Put them in 20 years ago when my Dad owned it. And, it is easier to access. Front mount with a Wagner loader on it is a PITA to change.[/quote]een gettin along with points all my life, &amp; probably too old to change now, but..........if I ever do, I won't be wiring my tractor up like the diagram posted above (Genesee I guess?).[/quote]

Been working since 6/2010. Was in the Pertronix box when I got it. Any variation voided the warranty. Are you seeing a problem with their setup? I've used the tractor several times a week since 2010. Just wondering what you think I need to watch for.[/quote]
I am a giant believe in, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". So your good experience says leave it alone. That being said, Pertronix, in virtually everyone of their many installation instruction sheets (which look nothing like the one you posted and Pertronix does not use a part number such as on that sheet, EF4FM), always state that minimum coil circuit resistance required is 3 Ohms. Yours is 2.5 ohms. I believe EF4FM is a number used by a distributor, who buys Pertronix part &amp; assigns their part number to it and supplies parts outlet stores. Can't remember their name right now. Genesse pretty much does the same thing. The other thing (that is a personal matter) is the ammeter connection is such that it will indicate only alternator output.....thus never showing a discharge (-) condition as when lights or other load is/are turned on. I like it the way Ford &amp; every other manufacturer wire ammeters, where they read "net", current both into (charging) and out of (discharging) the battery. They both work, just tell you different things. Yours tells you only alternator output.
 
Oh no.
Am I really getting a lecture here?
Forget the hubris. Let's talk about condescension.
Take a chill pill Bruce. And add me to your ignore list if you need to.
You wont be happy untill everyone here completely understands 6V automotive electrics.
And I wont be happy untill everyone here realizes they don't have to learn all this electrical crap from A to Z. Just have someone convert it for you and never touch it again.
There.
I'm done.
 
" And add me to your ignore list if you need to."

No, that would imply that I don't like/appreciate your humor/wisdom & occasional burst of condescension/hubris.


" Take a chill pill Bruce. "

I'm 62 yr old retiree & combat vet. Nothing in this day to day world p!ssis me off for more that 10 minutes or 2 beers. Least of all an argument about EI on a tractor board.


" Just have someone convert it for you and never touch it again."

Bzzzzzzztttt! Wrong answer! And you know it. They break all the time.
 

We (that would be me and you, Ultradog) have something in common....a fine running 8N with Electronic Ignition....And I might add one that never fails.... 8N that would be. Lets see if I can count correctly.. 2012...thar would be this year, an subtract 1999...that would be the year I converted my "49 8N to EI system. Second grade school taught me to add and substract... So, 1999 taken from 2012....Wow! 13 years. So, my poor old 8N must not like me not working on it, changing points, condensers, coils, and spark plugs, etc. This may go down in the records books for a "N" series tractor running without any problems with the electrical circuits failures.

So, what can we say to the highly supreme General from Mechanicsville, Va.
to phrase him in believing the modern day electronics on a 1940-1952 tractor works. We are not arguing that he lacks the knowledge to understand the workings of the electronics involved, nor do we care.
We both know he controls his corner of the world...that would be the forum here and his support team, or any other words his "I've got your back" as they say.
I have to give credit where credit is due. He is one remarkable human being. In fact he alone has accomplish what no other human person on earth..past and any in the future has done...."Thread a sewing machine needle while the machine is running full speed." That alone should serve us all.. God couldn't do that.
 
I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my original post. After reading the many comments, I've decided to stay with the points ect. Thank you.
 

Points AIN'T 3 bucks in this century!!!!! Try 10 to 20, and most now come from The Land of the Never Right. I have a set of points in my IH 240 running a 12V alternator. Put them in 20 years ago when my Dad owned it. And, it is easier to access. Front mount with a Wagner loader on it is a PITA to change.[/quote]een gettin along with points all my life, &amp; probably too old to change now, but..........if I ever do, I won't be wiring my tractor up like the diagram posted above (Genesee I guess?).[/quote]

Been working since 6/2010. Was in the Pertronix box when I got it. Any variation voided the warranty. Are you seeing a problem with their setup? I've used the tractor several times a week since 2010. Just wondering what you think I need to watch for.[/quote]
I am a giant believe in, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". So your good experience says leave it alone. That being said, Pertronix, in virtually everyone of their many installation instruction sheets (which look nothing like the one you posted and Pertronix does not use a part number such as on that sheet, EF4FM), always state that minimum coil circuit resistance required is 3 Ohms. Yours is 2.5 ohms. I believe EF4FM is a number used by a distributor, who buys Pertronix part &amp; assigns their part number to it and supplies parts outlet stores. Can't remember their name right now. Genesse pretty much does the same thing. The other thing (that is a personal matter) is the ammeter connection is such that it will indicate only alternator output.....thus never showing a discharge (-) condition as when lights or other load is/are turned on. I like it the way Ford &amp; every other manufacturer wire ammeters, where they read "net", current both into (charging) and out of (discharging) the battery. They both work, just tell you different things. Yours tells you only alternator output.[/quote]

JMOR, you're right. I found the box. It was a TISCO part number. The pertronix number is 1247, and I will leave it alone until there's a problem.
 

We (that would be me and you, Ultradog) have something in common....a fine running 8N with Electronic Ignition....And I might add one that never fails.... 8N that would be. Lets see if I can count correctly.. 2012...thar would be this year, an subtract 1999...that would be the year I converted my "49 8N to EI system. Second grade school taught me to add and substract... So, 1999 taken from 2012....Wow! 13 years. So, my poor old 8N must not like me not working on it, changing points, condensers, coils, and spark plugs, etc. This may go down in the records books for a "N" series tractor running without any problems with the electrical circuits failures.

So, what can we say to the highly supreme General from Mechanicsville, Va.
to phrase him in believing the modern day electronics on a 1940-1952 tractor works. We are not arguing that he lacks the knowledge to understand the workings of the electronics involved, nor do we care.
We both know he controls his corner of the world...that would be the forum here and his support team, or any other words his "I've got your back" as they say.
I have to give credit where credit is due. He is one remarkable human being. In fact he alone has accomplish what no other human person on earth..past and any in the future has done...."Thread a sewing machine needle while the machine is running full speed." That alone should serve us all.. God couldn't do that.[/quote]


8N1949, I have a question for you.

You authored the article “THE FORD/FUNK 8N STORY” that’s in the archives here. Your name is Fred J. Barner of Coffeyville KS. When you first started posting here, you used the handle “skeeter/kansas”.
Which brings me to the question:
Are you the same Fred J Barner of Coffeyville KS, aka “skeeter” &amp; “skeeterman” that got busted by the POW Network website for falsely representing yourself as a retired US Navy captain &amp; pilot w/ the Navy Cross?
This is a ‘cut &amp; paste’ from their website:


It appears you have allowed the group of idiots at AirWarriors.com forum to continue to search,

slander my reputation as a former Navy veteran. In doing so, you allowed yourself, and all the

other airwarriors members subject to a "defamation of character"law suit..

Should I be brought into a court of law to prove my status as a Navy veteran, you will be sued

for your actions prescribed by law..

It is to you to inform your members on what you have allowed. One more slander and my

attorney will be contacting you and your lawyer..

Best Wishes,

Skeeterman



Skeeterman, you're a freaking nutjob. You lost, that's life, get over it. You were never a Navy

pilot, never will be, never could be. The reason we continue this thread is to point and laugh at

your pathetic life, rubbing it in your face if you will. One would think on the net you could get

away with lies but you couldn't even do that. That's truly pathetic A real man would count his

losses and continue on, leaving it be. I suspect that won't be the case.









Barner, Fred J.
aka Barnes, Fred
aka Skeeter
aka Skeeterman
aka Harold L McEachern

continued
continued 2
NPRC could locate no military records when provided with identifiers.

· Claims Navy Captain

· Aviator, Korean and Vietnam War

· The Navy Cross resulted from aerial flight actions on AUGUST 5, 1952.

· Retired Navy Captain with 30 years.

· Former Navy Korea and Vietnam fighter pilot.

· Spent 20 years in Navy, and 14 of those years piloting jet airctaft.

· Flew the F9F Panther, and F2H Banshee jets in Korea, and A-4 Skyhawk in Vietnam.

· U.S.Navy flight training in 1949, and three combat tours during the Korean war, and two during the Vietnam war.

· Retired from Navy in 1974, and moved back to Missouri.

· "delayed his advancement to Admiral"

· Being an old Navy man with 24 years....





Oh BTW..............check out the “Stolen Valor Act” . It’s a federal crime to falsely represent oneself as having received any U.S. military decoration or medal. Like the Navy Cross.



So what about it Fred, aka Skeeter, care to comment on the link below?



http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies485b.htm
 
luddite? that's funny? I work with cutting edge digital electronics technology every day. in fact.. the stuff I work with out dates so fast, we are usually ordering upgrade components every few months, each 'obsoleteing' the previous install.

i wonder if i'm a luddite because I like a 20$ set of points that lasts 10ys and don't want to gut my dizzy for a 100+++$ ei.. and if I did ei.. i'd be out thousands of dollars.. as if you are doing 1, do em all right? couldn't afford that.
I wonder how much $ it is worth to pull a piece of paper thru a set of points once a year as preventative maintenance when doing plugs?

I'll even admit to being a lil lazy and on a couple machines.. I only clean the points and check gap when I do wires every 3 years. I use a good grade lobe lube and it's always still present after 3ys... mind you every machine I've bought with points never makes it to me with any lobe lube on it.. not even grease.. :)

:)
 
Dammit Bruce, I had no dog in this fight and was keeping quiet until you put this out there.
As a proud Navy veteran myself I'm a staunch supporter of the stolen valor act.
I puddle jumped out of a little base fairly close to you. Little Creek.
Not an aviator, no Navy Cross. (don't want to get sued :lol: )
 
Steve,My main objection to SS ignition is the rip off price on it,There 3 bucks worth of parts in a lump of epoxy in the SS ignition.The ignition module died in my drive way in my chevy truck.I had a spare distributor in the shop so took the module out of it.Fixed the problem.A new module cost 12 bucks at that time.Friend had a SS ignition fail on the road.With towing and repair it cost him 300 bucks to fix.When you have hay down you can wait for a new module to come from East Overshoe.My tractor stopped while baling hay,a look at the ammeter said points were not making contact.Clean them with a pocket knife,problem fixed.The points in my 600 are on year 24.They are Motorcraft brand.Those points were used in Ford cars and trucks.Auto makers took to ss ignition because a worker could just slap them in place,no skill required.
 
(quoted from post at 20:45:12 04/19/12) I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my original post. After reading the many comments, I've decided to stay with the points ect. Thank you.

It'll be fine
normal maintenance and only good quality replacement parts
are the ticket.
While I prefer EI when I can afford it,
(36 is right on it being way over-priced)
my points tractors run just fine.
forgot to add earlier, that any tractor I convert
to EI gets the complete ignition check-up[b:ade12b213b] first[/b:ade12b213b].
only after I'm sure it is OK, does it get the $ EI.
And non-runners always get points first until
I get them running, and running right.
good luck
 
(quoted from post at 21:04:20 04/19/12) Dammit Bruce, I had no dog in this fight and was keeping quiet until you put this out there.
As a proud Navy veteran myself I'm a staunch supporter of the stolen valor act.
I puddle jumped out of a little base fairly close to you. Little Creek.
Not an aviator, no Navy Cross. (don't want to get sued :lol: )

Yea, Little Creek was Camp Shelton in WWII. USN Armed Guard base.

Did you check out the link to the POW network re Fred Barner, aka Skeeter? Plenty of great info there.

I caught a scumbag imposter here in VA claiming to have a Silver Star. Got himself a set of Silver Star license plates from the VA DMV thanks to a forged DD-214. The Feds got involved in that one too.

The folks on the POW network have access to plenty of resources to quickly ferret out the BS artists &amp; wannabes. And they just turn over the info to the FBI.

[http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies485b.html][/url]
 

Yes, I checked it out. I have to admit I didn't read the entire thing, just enought to get the idea.
I run into these guys on occasion, usually just trying to impress someone - not taking any real advantage. They still irk me.
 
The last point and condenser pak cost me 3 bucks.The 9n uses the same points as the Ford car.I was buying timing gears for Ford tractors for 8 bucks when a tractor place was getting 49 bucks for the same gear.I have a good supply of Ford tractor parts in my shop.I bought these before the rip off pricing started.The 640 tractor used the same ignition parts as the 50s cars.You dont have to buy import junk parts.
 
Well, it's been nearly 24 hours now since I asked if you are the same Fred J Barner of Coffeyville KS, aka “skeeter” & “skeeterman” that got busted by the POW Network website for falsely representing yourself as a retired US Navy captain & pilot w/ the Navy Cross.

No answer.

Maybe the link will help you remember.
Fred Barner the fraud
 

It does not matter what excuse you get foe are again EI does work and hands down better than a conventional system... My point every engine I own with EI I luv ... I would not change them back....

I can tear down most any modern system ,,, if I have assembled it rite I can shut the hood lite it off and drive it no adjustments needed...

Unlike the nasayers I don't have a problem giving folks what they want its their money not mine...
 
I have points in my shop for 3 bucks.Most are for early cars.Need points for a 47 Indian motor cycle.I have 10 sets.There are 5 new condensors for 600 series tractors made by Delco.They test good at 400 volts.
 
I have them in my shop.NOS no import crap.Not much left after 40 years of dubbing around fixing generators and starters.Fellow was looking for a new chopper for his fence charger.Saw one in a farm store for 23.50 I have some in the shop for 7 bucks.Never got around to rip off pricing.Saw seed potatoes for 89 cents a pound if you buy small amounts.Bag price is 42 cents.Good mark up for emptying a bag into a plastic tub.I save my own seed and avoid the crooks.
 

Bruce, you are correct, this is the one and only "Skeeterman" who was 'outed' by the members of the Airwarriors forum (I'm a member). Many stories about this fellow, what a poser. If you'd like a great deal more information feel free to contact me. :)
 
(quoted from post at 14:24:34 07/07/12)
Bruce, you are correct, this is the one and only "Skeeterman" who was 'outed' by the members of the Airwarriors forum (I'm a member). Many stories about this fellow, what a poser. If you'd like a great deal more information feel free to contact me. :)

Well, I see our discussion about Fred the Fraud &amp; the Stolen Valor Act must have offended someone because the posts got deleted. So, I'll just leave it at this: thanks to you &amp; your buddies at Air Warriors for outing him.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:31 07/08/12)
(quoted from post at 14:24:34 07/07/12)
Bruce, you are correct, this is the one and only "Skeeterman" who was 'outed' by the members of the Airwarriors forum (I'm a member). Many stories about this fellow, what a poser. If you'd like a great deal more information feel free to contact me. :)

Well, I see our discussion about Fred the Fraud &amp; the Stolen Valor Act must have offended someone because the posts got deleted. So, I'll just leave it at this: thanks to you &amp; your buddies at Air Warriors for outing him.

Look at this link (posted below). Interestingly ole Fred, AKA Skeeterman, edited his first post “Last edited by Skeeterman; 03-30-2007 at 07:06 PM” shortly after he’d been outed to the POW Network. However if you scroll down to post #9 in this thread you will be able to read his original post as someone “replied” to his first post with a quote. By this time Skeeterman was busy all over the internet trying to cover his tracks. :wink:

http://www.crappie.com/crappie/missouri-fishing/31645-saying-hello.html
 
(quoted from post at 13:47:06 07/08/12)
(quoted from post at 09:49:31 07/08/12)
(quoted from post at 14:24:34 07/07/12)
Bruce, you are correct, this is the one and only "Skeeterman" who was 'outed' by the members of the Airwarriors forum (I'm a member). Many stories about this fellow, what a poser. If you'd like a great deal more information feel free to contact me. :)

Well, I see our discussion about Fred the Fraud &amp; the Stolen Valor Act must have offended someone because the posts got deleted. So, I'll just leave it at this: thanks to you &amp; your buddies at Air Warriors for outing him.

Look at this link (posted below). Interestingly ole Fred, AKA Skeeterman, edited his first post “Last edited by Skeeterman; 03-30-2007 at 07:06 PM” shortly after he’d been outed to the POW Network. However if you scroll down to post #9 in this thread you will be able to read his original post as someone “replied” to his first post with a quote. By this time Skeeterman was busy all over the internet trying to cover his tracks. :wink:

http://www.crappie.com/crappie/missouri-fishing/31645-saying-hello.html

That's just too funny! I'll bet he's tried to edit posts on this board too. He will spend the rest of his pathetic life trying to erase the lies from cyber-space; just Google " skeeterman navy " and see what pops up!
 
How long before we can get the supreme court's ruling that the stolen valor act is unconstitutional reversed/amended?
I am one unhappy camper!

Court
 
(quoted from post at 19:00:25 07/08/12) How long before we can get the supreme court's ruling that the stolen valor act is unconstitutional reversed/amended?
I am one unhappy camper!

Court
url]

For some reason, we now have two threads going on the same topic. Here is the rest of this thread:


http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=919605&amp;sid=b5f29155bd16ec7962b9dda15c64dd55[/url]
 

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