New project, ideas needed

jon f mn

Well-known Member
My company has several of these tiltbed low boy trailers for hauling 40' containers.

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As you can see, the containers need to be strapped on, and if they are loaded they also need to be chained as well. The boss asked me to come up with a way to make it so they can be pulled all the way on the trailer and fastened down without straps or chains. This creates several problems. First they are pulled on with a cable winch hooked to a cross chain that hooks in the front of the container in pockets.


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That creates the problem of getting the container close enough to the trsiler gooseneck because the cross chain leaves too much distance, they need to get within 6" of the gooseneck. They have several different trail ers, some with the winch on top of the upper deck and some with it down on the main deck. With the lower winch the Chain hits the winch before the container gets close enough, on the ones with the upper winch the cable pulles up too much on the front of the container.

So the first issue is how to get the container all the way forward.

The second issue is that to unload the container needs to hang over the rear of the trailer so that when the trailer is raised the container hits the ground so it will drag itself off.

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So if the container is pulled all the way on the trailer there has to be something to push it back again, about 4', so it will slide off. There also needs to be a way to latch them down in all 4 corners using these standard corner boxes.

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One additional problem is that the rear leaves very little to work with because the trailers are pointed so they can get the bed to the ground. So there is no room under to work with. You also can't put anything above the bed at the rear because sometimes you can't get straight to the container so it has to slide over the side.

So, any ideas on how to achieve all these goals? It needs to be easy, fast, safe and idiot proof. Should be easy. Budget is pretty open if it saves enough time. Strapping takes 15+ minutes each for on and off and we can haul 5-10 loads a day, so labor adds up quick. Plus workers like to claim injuries from throwing straps. There are no commercial trailers yet that don't need straps, so there is nothing to copy.

Did I forget anything? Loly
 
Of course it a little different but similar. Waste management used to deliver rolloff containers to our construction sites. They were pulled on with a winch and slid off by elevating the bed. I do not recall how those containers are secured in place. I'm certain no straps are involved because they are required to tarp their loads now days and have never seen the straps. Just something to check out as a possible solution. Maybe someone on the forum has experience with rolloffs. gobble
 
My company does roll offs too, but the locking and loading mechanism is part of the container there. I can't do that here because we use standard rail containers and so the container can't be modified.
 
Im not sure about your on and off the trailer issues, but what if you weld to the containers in the corners (those shipping
containers have heavier steel at the corners, I have two of them) so that you could possibly use either ratchet binders or the
over center ones (ratchet would be easier as there wont be much "give")

So you could get the thing up on the trailer, then use a binder to pull down on all four corners....

read this again....ok. So do you have to get the container all the way onto the trailer, or can you haul them hanging off a bit?
If you can haul with a 4' overhang, maybe just weld a plate onto the rear sides so you could attach your binders to the
rear....and Id think that is as simple as it gets.....problem is....I dont know how many containers you have to weld these
contraptions onto....that may not be practical??

Other idea for the front of containers is to cut your rub rail out where the container is "loaded", and build some type of cam
over latch that hooks into those pockets in the front....that might not be to bad to do, and no mods to the containers....still no
solution to the rear though...
 
Been too many years since I saw their rig, but the container company "mobil-mini" seemed to have just what you are looking to do. Might be able to find info on their rig.
 
Offhand, the only idea I have for you is something similar to this. My idea was a bit different, but likely not as practical as this pic.

I can get you the container pulled fully forward and secured in place, but getting it back is the hurdle I'm still working on. Trying to come up with something as simple as possible. Anyway, thoughts on this?

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Jon, how many trailers are you looking at modifying? I have an idea for a trailer modification, but could get a bit costly if there are too many trailers to do.
 
You already have hydraulics on the trailer so pushing them back with a cylinder shouldn't be a problem or a pulley system under the deck, think a table on a track.
Now the tie down thing might be harder, the trailers with the elevated winch will lift up the front , maybe set the front down on the "pins"? or a modified screw binder that hooks in the existing holes on the container.
A few barley pops and spend some time looking at it should help.
 
how about 3 or 4 pieces of 2-3" pipe set under the box as it's loaded...run out of cable... just push the box forward... same for unloading...push it back as you need too ?? used this on portable buildings several times

john
 
(quoted from post at 16:14:30 02/21/18)There also needs to be a way to latch them down in all 4 corners using these standard corner boxes.

These are used by haulers using flatbeds.
They are retractable container twist-locks.
In-line with the industry standard truck chassis style you also posted. They would be welded into the bed.
Not to sure how much they stick up when fully retracted.
www.pacificmarine.net/construction/flatbed-truck-container-twistlock.htm

But they might not work in your trailers.
Do the trailers you use power slide off and on the frame a few feet? Or are they strictly tilt only trailers?
 
How about something similar to what Kcm
posted in a pic below crossed with a hydra
push spreader design. If you had a
hydraulic "sled" on the front of the
trailer that could push pull the last 3-4
feet, and secure the front pockets down.

On the back maybe a couple L shaped dogs
that would drop in the deck and latch in
the back corners.

I know you don't have much clearance, but
some flatbed manufactures offer pop up
container dogs. I am trying to think how to
turn them on the side.
 
(quoted from post at 16:51:14 02/21/18) How about something similar to what Kcm
posted in a pic below crossed with a hydra
push spreader design. [color=blue:e27a043535]If you had a
hydraulic "sled" on the front of the
trailer that could push pull the last 3-4
feet[/color:e27a043535], and secure the front pockets down.

On the back maybe a couple L shaped dogs
that would drop in the deck and latch in
the back corners.

I know you don't have much clearance, but
some flatbed manufactures offer pop up
container dogs. I am trying to think how to
turn them on the side.

That's pretty much what I originally had in mind, but think that might be a bit bulky.

As far as locking the container down to the trailer, I was wondering about using a special pin that would slip into the container (one pin at each corner) and then bolt to the trailer -- or maybe have a couple of pins that attach to the trailer, then smaller bolts to keep anything from sliding out. Problem with that is, the bolt holes would have to line up near perfectly.

Have been thinking about having fixed pins at the front of the lower deck -- as the container gets pulled forward, the holes in the container would slide over these fixed pins. That would secure the front end in place. Using this idea, all we have to figure out now is how to get the trailer all the way forward, and then how to secure the rear end.
 
5 minimum, plus 2 spares. 2 are like this
one where the vertical p art of the
gooseneck is a parallel link and the upper
deck does not move. These have the winch
above. 2 the gooseneck is attached to the
lower deck and there is a lift mechanism
between the 5th wheel plate and frame and
thhe entire trailer raises up. These have
the winch on the front of the lower deck.
The other is the single axle and is flat
all the way.
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Gee Jon, that's quite the mind-bender you gave us! To pull the container forward, push it back, secure it down, and all the while making it stupid-easy and without having to lift much weight. That's quite the brain teaser! *lol*

Not sure it'll matter, but do you have any idea what PSI the hydraulic system operates at?

Is it "possible" to run aux. hydraulics down the trailer?

Looking at pic #3 from your OP, see that opening at the bottom, about 5" or 6" by about 4' wide? 1) is this opening on every container and 2) how far to the first cross member? Can that measurement change from one container manufacturer to another (meaning, distance from end to first cross member)?
 
The openings are on all containers, but are
only on one end so they can't be used for
this project because we have to be able to
load from either end.

The hyd are standard truck had so I'm
guessing 2500-3000 psi. I'm thinking some
sort of hyd cylinder is going to need to be
used.
 
Seems that way.

I would imagine the trailer sides are strong enough to handle mounting a cylinder on each side and pulling a loaded container. What about trailer width? Would mounting rams on the sides extend beyond max allowable? And then, how much push/pull would the cylinders need to move a loaded container on those decks?
 
If you are using standard rail containers or the intermodal containers that have been in use for over forty years, there is probably a lot of standardized and off-the-shelf handling equipment and components for those containers. That industry has been highly automated for many decades, I'm surprised your company did not buy trailers already made to handle those containers automatically. Worst case, your bosses should be able to lease a trailer for you to copy. Right now the hard part is finding one to copy. I would search the container manufacture's websites for the handling equipment they sell and maybe ask their engineers who else they may know that makes equipment to handle their containers. Rail and trucking publications should have ads and lists of manufacturers. Thomas Register is also a place to start looking.

Myself, I would discuss this with your company's purchasing department, this sounds like the type of high dollar project that purchasing departments love to sink their teeth into and they might be more efficient at it than you would be. It might all depend on how busy you are, LOL.
 
The company has dozens of commercial chassis for hauling containers from the rail to shippers and back. They have several types including convertible ones capable of hauling 1 or 2-20' containers or 1-40' container. The problem with those is you can't drop the container on the ground. The containers must be lifted on and off the chassis. We have several lifts that do that including one at the office where I work. But there are no lifts available on site where we deliver to so that is why they use these tilt trailers for the 40' containers and roll off beds in tandem straight trucks for the 10 and 20' containers. That is the industry standard right now. We are trying to improve on that.
 
Thinking about your project reminded me of a set-up on a big old truck camper I had.

It had a single hand winch on it and allowed you to load and unload very easily.

Basically you would need a cable down the bed with a pulley or snatch block at the back end.
The cable does not get anchored to the winch itself instead several wraps of it go around the drum then after the cable is run through the pulley at the back both ends are connected together.

Where they attach together is where you would attach your bridle or bracket similar to what kcm posted.

Run the winch in one direction to pull the container on then when run in the opposite direction it will pull it off.

With basically an endless cable you should be able to pull it all the way on, a couple of pins at the front to lock into the boxes will hold that end.

For the rear maybe a set of pop up pins could be put in from holes in the back of the deck to lock it down.
 
The winch cable running the entire length of trailer deck sounds like an idea to pursue.
If the winch could be converted to a dual drum, then you could pull and push directly on the container corners.

Might also make loading easier if the trailers had roller pipes strategically placed. Like a building truss company delivery truck.

On the parallel arms trailer, it appears the rear axles move forward. Maybe that action can be utilized to pull the container off beyond the trailer end?
 
There are trailers set up with cable on a
pulley set up like that but they don't work
very well because you need to be backed up
straight to the container or they pull off
the pulleys. The company looked at those
but decided they were not for us. We drop
most of the 40'ers at construction sites
and even tho we drop them where we can get
at them straight, they frequently get moved
and then we need to be able to winch them
from different angles and sometimes from
quite far away. We get a lot of business
from other companies with that type trailer
because we don't need the containers moved
before we can load them.
 

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