OT ... Trees and attorneys

Why are attorneys so useless? It's easier to sue somebody because they served you hot coffee than it is to protect yourself. I've been to several and haven't received any useful information. One was even specialized in real estate and has for decades. Even he couldn't answer my questions about trees on my property line.

I see a lot of tree trimming questions here so maybe somebody can point me in the direction of the info I seek. My neighbor is threatening to sue me if I don't have some trees trimmed.

One tree has some dead limbs hanging over his deck and the trunk is clearly on my side of the line. It's diseased and covered in vines so I'm having it taken out completely. One beside it(which he isn't complaining about) is covered in vines also. It's only a matter of time before it succumbs to them, so I'll have it removed. And there is another tree that I want removed so he can't complain in the future.

The tree I have questions about is partly on his property, but mostly mine. He says I need to have it trimmed away from his roof. I'm pretty sure I'm not responsible for that. I think laws give him rights to trim all the way to the property line if he desires. Is the tree mine or is it a shared asset/liability? If I have it trimmed it will be trimmed all the way to the ground. But I need to be sure it is completely mine.

I'm also thinking of just trimming the one dead one, and telling him to trim the other away from his own house, and putting my house up for sale. His harassment is never going to stop, and as a law abiding citizen I'm screwed.

My limited experience as a timber land owner is that every other tree on a property line belong to you, the alternate trees are his. HTH I am not a lawyer.

How do you determine who gets the first tree ?

My experience is limited to the adjoining landowners being large timber companies or agencies like BLM. To my knowledge who gets the first tree has never come up.

Thanks for the suggestion. But I'm not sure if that applies to people in the city. The only law I've been able to find is that if I damage a neighbors tree I'm responsible for three time the value. I'm in ohio if I haven't mentioned it already.

How would you feel if the situation was reversed?

With ownership comes responsibility. If the tree trunk is on your ground it's your tree and your responsiblilty. An obviously dead limb or tree is an accident waiting to happen. If he takes a picture of it now and it later damages his building you don't have a leg to stand on in court. The lawyers are probably hedging because they know that and they also they recognize that you don't want to hear it.

Do yourself a favor and trim or remove the offending trees before one damages your neighbors property or he hires a professional tree trimmer and sues you the bill plus court and lawyer's fees.

Have things gone too far to offer to split the costs or share work?

Good luck.

How about if you pay half and he pays half for the trimming and call it even.
There now everybody is good, now time for cookies and milk before bed for each of you.

Tell him You are going to sue him for putting his house in the way of your tree. My experience is first in court usually is the winner. Tell him you will also sue him because he stares at you .

I'm not disputing the diseased tree. It's the healthy one whose trunk is on both sides of the property line that I'm disputing. If the roles were reversed, I would have already trimmed the tree myself. Just a few small limbs rubbing the roof and gutters. Thirty minute job at the most. If I can find a law that says I own the tree since most of the trunk and roots are on my property, then it will be removed. No more tree problems.

Things are way beyond working together. He's just trying to hit me financially. He has no yard, and he's mad because I put up a fence after he started harassing me. I thought about offering to let him have a tree trimmer bring their truck into my yard, but being nice to him has not worked in the past.

My neighbor that gives every body, especially me, trouble lives across the street. You would not believe all the crap we put up with. One day my son and I came home from Pheasant hunting and the Warden from a distant town had been here and the wife had to clean out the deep freeze and refrigerator. The neighbor told DNR we had fifty birds in freezer, that we were bringing home our limit three times a day. Well, we had 6 and a half birds between the two of us. Granted I had been having pretty good luck hunting but was giving them to others so they could enjoy a pheasant dinner and to keep me inside my possession limit. That time I went to court and had a harassment restraining order put on her. It was the quietest two years the police and sheriff had in town. Now she is pretty much back to her same old crap. Authorities just ignore it , pacify her. Oh, yeah, it really all started when I put up a privacy fence 30 years ago also.

Here's your sign!!!

It might be hard to get a good price with a sign like that.

My favorite sign in town says "Piqua Protocol: Bend over, grab ankles". I forget what the city did to the guy, but he got a sign permit and put that up. City workers came and tore it down. He sued them for violating his free speech and the city had to buy him a new one.

It is my hope that I never reach the point that I consider relocation because of relations with my neighbor. For me, it is better to give more than the minimum, needed to get along well, with neighbors and others I interact with, like a spouse for instance. If you need to sell your property, replace it and move, it likely will cost you 10-15% of your property's value to make the transition. Most of this is out of pocket but there is also work you must do and the aggravation. Chances are there will be things about your new neighbors, that you dislike. When I was young, I often thought people were taking advantage of my father, my advice to him was to take a stand and 'show' them who is right. For emphases, he would call me by my first name, and say; "I have to live here." It took decades before I got the point. Kill this neighbor with kindness and you will come out ahead, without an attorney.

I'm no lawer, and I don't live in the city. I was told, I have to trim a neighbors tree on my side, if the limbs sticks over my field and I want it trimed. I can not force him to do it.

I give everybody a chance to be my friend. My other neighbors are absolutely wonderful. I would give them the shirt off my back if they asked for it. My neighbor on the other side and the family beside him don't have as good of lake frontage as me. I told them any time they want to go fishing from my dock is fine by me. Take my row boats out if they like. They wanted to dig up a huge boulder in their yard to engrave for a memorial for their son that died. They said they would try not to disturb my yard, but I told them to bring the tractor in from my yard for a better angle to dig it up. I even told them not to worry about the ruts in my yard. They fixed it the next day while I was still at work though.

That's what I keep hearing and reading. My neighbor
says it has to be done by the end of the month. The
attorney said he would research it and he would get
back to be in 6 weeks. That doesn't do me any good
if he is serious about suing me. I want to find an
ohio law or city ordinance that says it and am
having no luck.

Hopefully you can talk to your neighbor and come up with an agreement that is OK for both of you. Dealing with lawyers is usually very expensive, and in my experience, it usually leaves scars on a neighborly relationship. If you arrive at an agreement, you might want to have it in writing, so no one "forgets" what you agreed to.

If there was a tree half on my property and half on the neighbor's property, and it was not bothering me, and I had a neighbor who would not agree to its removal, I would just leave it alone. Good luck!

But but but but but but he started it! lol

Ignore him. He is blowing hot air to bother you and it is working. If he sues you it will cost him money and he will lose.

Had a tall pine that sat on the property line between my neighbor and me. It was tall enough to crash in to either house. I asked the neighbor if he would pay half to have it removed. He was not interested.
So, instead of contributing to the overpaid legal community, I called my insurance man. He said all I needed to do was have a registed letter delivered stating our conversation, the date, and the neighbor's refusal to remove the tree. Had it fallen on my property, his insurance company would have to pay.
Funny how he was "suddenly" very eager to pay half to remove the tree.
The tree is gone, along with tree stump ground up. And by the way, the neighbor later thanked me for being persistant.

When I was young and just married, I lived in a little house in a small town. There was a huge hollow tree right on the property line, and leaning toward the neighbor's house. She demanded that I remove the tree before it fell on her house. I couldn't even afford to pay attention, but I offered to split the cost of hiring someone insured to lay it down, and I'd clean up the mess. She was as tight as the skin on a bean, and refused the offer. The next storm that came through dropped it on her house and nearly demolished it. The insurance adjuster was really ticked when I told him that I had offered to split the cost of removing the tree, but she had refused to participate. The adjuster hired me to clean up the tree, and it made about a month's firewood for us, and a couple hundred to set aside for Christmas.

You gotta try to get along, but sometimes if it doesn't work out you just have to let things fall where they may. My present neighbor and I shared the work of cleaning up a huge fenceline elm. We had a good time, even roasted some hot dogs over the scrap fire.

I hope it works out for you. It's hard to suffer demanding neighbors.

(quoted from post at 16:23:07 08/01/11)


I see a lot of tree trimming questions here so maybe somebody can point me in the direction of the info I seek. My neighbor is threatening to sue me if I don't have some trees trimmed.

One tree has some dead limbs hanging over his deck and the trunk is clearly on my side of the line. It's diseased and covered in vines so I'm having it taken out completely. One beside it(which he isn't complaining about) is covered in vines also. It's only a matter of time before it succumbs to them, so I'll have it removed. And there is another tree that I want removed so he can't complain in the future.

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It's variable by state and by township, but in general any vegetation that crosses an ownership boundary can be cut by the person on that side of the boundary. Your neighbor can cut the tree all the way back to the imaginary vertical line created by the property line. If it kills YOUR tree -- that's too bad for you. You should have trimmed it before it started crossing the boarder.

On the other side of the equation, if HE notices that a limb from YOUR tree is over his house and DOES NOT cut it -- he is screwed if it falls on his house. NOT you. (But that is variable by state, etc -- check on it). Once a dangerous condition is identified, HE has a duty to protect his investment -- not you. I would send a letter by certified mail with signature required. Video tape the letter and it being put in the envelop and showing that it was sent. In the letter tell him that you understand from his conversation that he is concerned about a limb that crosses the property line. Tell him that after it has crossed the line it is out of your control, but that he has every legal right to trim it back to the line -- even if it kills the tree.


Because he seems to be a peckerwood, I would also include in the letter that if he agrees that any incidental damage from the actions of removing the tree with limbs over his deck will be covered by him and not you - then you will be a good neighbor and pay to take out that tree.


Guaranteed* advice from "the law office of Dewey, Cheetam & Howe".**






*Guaranteed to be advice -- not correct, good or even sound.
** The name of a fictional "Three Stooges" law office -- not a real law office. I am not a lawyer, don't play a lawyer on television and didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. Always see a real lawyer for real legal advice!

I'm no lawyer but I've been dealing with them for several years, with various issues including a dead tree on a neighbors property, and I can tell you for a fact that given your situation no lawyer is ever going to give you a straight answer on your issue.

One thing I will say from all the discussions I've had with them is this. Tell your neighbor if he wants to take you to court over something that has not happened yet to go right ahead. IF a limb falls, IF one of the dead trees damages his house in some way then you are typically going to be responsible for it. This because you knew it was dead and the potential was there for it to fall. If it is a living tree, in good health, and it falls then there was no reasonable expectation that it was going to fall and it's considered an act of GOD. Thing is SOMETHING has to happen, you have to be violating some ordinance, etc, etc, etc for him to actually have grounds to sue. Sueing just because the potential is there, at least in the state of NC where I am, is simply a waste of the courts time.

That said it sounds like your biggest problem is that your unsure about one tree. The truely dead ones your neighbor wants trimmed set completely on your property, and you have no problem taking care of them. Still your unsure of the ONE that straddles the line. You sound like you have no problem paying to have it take down also but are scared the neighbor will fuss about that too.

SO, my suggestion is this. If your so unsure about who is responsible for the tree draw up, or have a lawyer draw up, a paper stating you are taking responsibility for ALL of the trees hanging limbs across the line. In fact have the paper state the situation using words to the effect that you 'take responsibility for the- X number of- trees having branches extending across the peoperty line from lot so and so, (owned by ----) to lot so and so (owned by ----). Have the paper also state that, 'your taking responsibility for insuring that all x-number of trees- are cut or trimmed to your satisfaction in order to insure the safety of any and all personal property on both lots'. Have it state further that the neighbor has absolutely no problem with you doing so, and has no right to any form of recourseor reimbursement for what ever action you choose to handle the situation. Then have it signed by the neighbor and notorized.

Doing this, or at least trying, should solve all of your problems. IF he wants the job done then he will have no problem signing the paper. Once he does sign it, it gives you his blessing to do whatever the heck you want to do with ALL of the trees. If he doesn't sign the paper then he's going to have a really hard time continuing to threaten to sue you for not doing something he states he wants done but then won't agree to have done.

By doing things this way you basically turn his own game against him and turn things in your favor while killing any chance he has of continuing to threaten you. Good luck.

Again,not a lawyer, but someone who has always been pretty good at helping a$$holes make even bigger a$$holes of themselves and then hanging themselves with their own rope..

Does the city have anybody that does property line fencing disputes? If they do that person might know what you would have to do or who is responsable for trees on a fence line.

Had a neighbor complain about trees in a line fence. I told him no problem. I hired a bulldozer and track hoe. I removed all the trees back twenty feet each side of the fence. Sent him half the bill. He raised cane about it. I showed him the county ordinance that spelled out how they handle tree/fence disputes. He said he did not want HIS trees cut. I said I did not want MY trees cut so I solved the problem for us both. I told him to be real careful about coming to B!tch at me about land issues. I usually handle it to the MAX the law allows. I am as good of a neighbor as they treat me. If they want to push I shove real hard back.


If it where me I would just remove them all. Asked him if he would help out on the cost. If he does great, if he doesn"t, it will still be cheaper than going to court.

Many folks are under the mistaken belief that there is a specific statute to cover every situation. Not true. Many issues are subject to the "common law" instead- that is, the decisions made in the appeals of trial court cases.

And therein lies your problem- there is probably very little, if any, common law regarding trees straddling property lines, because nobody wants to spend thousands of dollars to go to the Court of Appeals over a fairly trivial matter.

Enter the "useless" attorney: You probably don't want to spend any money to have him research it, you want an immediate answer during the initial office conference (or when you corner him at a party). Attorney doesn't want to "shoot from the hip" with an answer without researching the law, because if he's wrong, you're suing for malpractice or making a bar complaint.

It may not be the best system, but its what we got.

Well spoken fellow Counsellor.....Its like some of my clients who refuse to consult with a "useless attorney" when their aging mom could use a simple cheap effective Durable Power of Attorney, but then wait until shes incompetent and a full blown Guardianship is necessary and complain that such is so much work and becomes expensive (maybe 10 times what a POA would have been when she was competent). It makes a body wanna say "I told ya so"

John T Country Lawyer

Bingo.

Dean

(quoted from post at 00:23:50 08/02/11)

.... Your neighbor can cut the tree all the way back to the imaginary vertical line created by the property line. If it kills YOUR tree -- that's too bad for you.

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From previous disputes here in Michigan, you can trim back to the property line AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT ENDANGER THE LIFE OF THE TREE. If a limb (or whole tree) falls on your neighbor's house, it's HIS responsibility (i.e. he files the claim with HIS insurance company). Just had this happen last fall. Tree on my property got hit by lightning, fell on neighbor's house. Both insurance companies came out. Mine paid for cost of cleanup on MY property. HIS insurance company paid for cleanup on his property.

If your neighbor thinks a limb is a danger to his property, tell him to deal with it and walk back into your house. I've dealt with a-hole neighbors by putting them on "Ignore".

And, as I said, that's the way I understand it's handled in Michigan. And even if there's a law on the books regarding it in your State, there's no guarantee that a judge will follow the law when rendering a decision. He/she could go back into their chambers and flip a coin for all you know. That's why there are Appeals Courts and I doubt that it would be practical to appeal a decision over a "tree". As others said, removing the tree is the cheapest option. And if you're worried about the half/half tree, get him to sign a document stating that he will not hold you responsible if you cut the tree. If he won't sign a document, have someone videotape you TELLING him what you're going to do and asking if he has any objections. Might not be worth anything in court, but at least he'll know you're being up front and legally cautious with him.

Mike was that advice worth $360 per hour???

You betcha- PM me and I'll send my address, so you can send a check! LOL

Don't know of anyone fielding tree questions who gets 360 per- that's pretty much the high powered corporate types around here. The joke in Seattle is that you set your hourly fee by adding a zero to the number of the floor your office is on.

Not a lawyer,and I know your frustration with lawyers having had to deal with them myself.Also it seems like some people try and say what an insurance company tells them is a law some way,its not.I would say that in most places,if your tree falls on somebody elses house,no matter what an insurance company says,or even what a Shyster lawyer says,you probably are going to get sued,and have to pay anyway.So unless you want to be sued,drug to court,forced to pay,why not take care of the tree?Maybe you can get him to pay half on the one you arent sure about,but if its on your property you will probably pay for whatever damages it causes.
Lets just turn things around for a minute.If his limb was hanging over your roof,wouldnt you want him to do something about it?If his tree fell on your roof,wouldnt you want him to have to pay for it?I think you better trim the trees and take out the ones like you said before things get worse.Plus are you going to believe what people say on here about it enough to risk being sued?Once they sue you it could cost lots more.

(quoted from post at 07:26:42 08/02/11) Lets just turn things around for a minute.If his limb was hanging over your roof,wouldnt you want him to do something about it?If his tree fell on your roof,wouldnt you want him to have to pay for it?

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If it was hanging over my roof I would either remove it myself or have a professional do it. Not going to hope that my neighbor notices it and does something about it. I am going to protect my own property.

And then there are the ones who come in, but then fluff the deal you set up for them.

Woman I have known for years came in- mother is gravely ill, but still competent- mom wants to deed the property to her. I call her brother to verify that it's OK with him- then prepare the Deed, tell her that it has to be signed before a Notary, etc.

Mom's death notice is in the paper 2 days later- I'm glad we got the deal done in time.

Daughter comes in a month or so later- mad as heck- recorder wouldn't record the Deed- what did I screw up? I look- deed isn't signed! "Oh, I thought it was all taken care of."

Putting to use everything I learned in the Dave2 People Skills continuing ed class, I think we were still friends when she left. She was still mad, but mostly at herself.

You can't make this stuff up.

Tree law is really very simple.

Health trees can stay where they are.

Diseased trees, dead trees are the liability of the owner on whose property they stand. Limbs reaching over from healthy trees are the liability of the property owner they hang over.

Fail to remove a obvious hazardous tree and your or their insurance company has a "out" not to pay when it falls. Leaving you to hold the bag or get sued.

When a healthy tree falls in a storm, it is considered a act of God and what ever it damages is covered. BUT check your policy, lots of exclusions and deductible sneak in over the years.

Best way to "fix" a uncooperative nieghbor is send him certified letter regarding the tree in question and send a copy to his homwowners insurance company. Then they will either contact him to eliminate the hazard or drop his policy.

Ditto with my abutting property owner.
He has a postage stamp lot and enjoyed 20 additional feet of my property as part of his back yard until he started with "that's your tree BS."

To him everything is my responsibility as he is cheaper then cheap.

Well the rock wall I am putting up at the prop line cuts his back yard down to next to nothing.

And the local town Code officer pointed out to me his dog house and his swing set were in violation of the 20 ft "all other" structures set back. He had to move them. His house exceeds the lot coverage ordinance too but he apparently got that done when he knew someone in office. Too bad the last election most of the old cronies got booted out and replaced with by the book, fair and honest people.

I am nice only to people who are nice to me.
Now its the full extent of the law.

Pete