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Shop management question please answer.

S

Sunny 5 acres

Member
Recently in our shop our VP of manufacturing encouraged all of us to voice our opinions to better the manufacturing our shop. Out of almost 400 employees no more than a dozen have voiced opinion. We have found if we do voice a better opinion our section managers come down on us because we automatically make them look bad. In the end it all comes down to a power match between maint, prefab, weld, machine shop and shipping. My question is the management is getting real bad and all of us employees are getting more and more fustrated by the day. How do we approach this situation?
 
I've worked in auto dealerships where they claim to want your input on how to improve the efficiency of the processes [I believe the Deming model calls it "continuous improvement"], and then when you do speak up, you suffer retribution up to, and sometimes including, firing. I was fired from one job for filling out an "anonymous" employee survey truthfully...and that happened to another friend of mine at another dealership over 50 miles away.

So my advice is, keep your mouth shut, if they ask for any suggestions to improve processes, tell them,"I don't have any," and then continue to do your job to the best of your ability...and don't forget to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

Apparently, if they REALLY wanted your input, they'd have made YOU a manager and given you a means to submit a proposal higher up the food chain and then have it either approved or turned down. Since they didn't do that, you're to do your work with plenty of vim and vigor; otherwise you might be replaced by some other....fortunate soul.

And don't EVER criticize the management, unless you WANT to be looking for another job. If they tell you that a turd smells like a rose, then you tell 'em YESSIR...because your manager may just have some roses that smell like crap.
 
You're asking the wrong group.... Gotta go over to tool talk and ask superdavie (stickweld) and his cheering committee how he'd handle it :shock:

Sounds like the big bosses have no faith in/respect for the supervisors. Going directly to the workers and opening the door for workers to overide managers is pretty much a slap in the face. If you have a good idea that you can back up on paper (so to speak), put it together and present it. I would give the manager the respect to tell him I am doing it and offer to have him present when you pitch it.
Big bosses took the low road to get to you, it'll look better taking the high road back to them...
Dave
 
Job security is what it all about. Delco & Guide both had a suggestion program, that was open to all employees even down to the janitorial employees. Submit a suggestion and if approved, there was a bonus check presented and a award presented and wrote up in the paper sponsored by the G.M.corporation. Now it's fear that being fired is the norm if a suggestion is submitted. LOOK OUT STICK WELDER!!!!!! LOL phil
 
Yep they ask you to tell them like it is but then because you say things they do not like you get hammered because you did as your where asked. Yep BTDT and found if you work in a factory etc it is better to keep your mouth shut and live with it because yep they ask you to speak up then get mad because you did. Like one place I worked for. Unions came in and asked us to go union but the guy who owned the company flat out said you go union and I will just shut the plant down guess what happened it did not go union
 
You're exactly right, Old. I learned the hard way that, even when management ASKS for suggestions, it's a good way to get yourself labeled as a "malcontent" or a "troublemaker" if you take the bait and open your mouth. Doesn't have to be a suggestion about your supervisor; it can be one about a procedure that could be done more efficiently and save the company a ton of money, or it can be something to do with safety that might keep the company from being sued. The minute you open your mouth, no matter how diplomatically or selflessly, you will have a target on your back. It's a sure way to get fired.

Best answer is, "I don't have any ideas...now may I get back to doing my job?" Then go back to work and act as if nothing happened, and make sure the quality and quantity of your work is just as good as before, if not better. In fact, it might be a good idea to start leaving for work 5 minutes earlier, and hanging around 5 minutes longer at the end of the day...so they can't accuse you of slacking off.

Just some thoughts based upon MY experiences in the workplace.
 
Ya I learned it was a way for them to do the well we have to cut back so you will get layed off. Best way to go on unemployment is to open your mouth. But then it goes back to what I also learned about AT&T and the pre-hire test they give. If you get to high a score on there test they do not want you and if you get to low they do not want you. They want a person stupid enough not to ask question but smart enough to do the job as they tell you to do it. So if you ask a smart question you get layed off because you are getting to smart
 
If only we could all work together America could possibly be competative again! but its all back stabbing and worring who looks better or worse! the american worker is one of the back bones of this country!
 
They don't want to hear what you have to say. Just trying to find out who to fire. Happen to me. Told them what I thought one day. Then they got a letter from a customer telling them. What a great job I did for them. Fired the next week.
 
Old works both ways. There was a meat packing plant in Dallas Tx several years ago. Owner told them the same thing. Union leaders said he was bluffing.They voted to go union on a Friday night. Next morning owner told them. Finish what you have left,then shut the plant down. Monday morning they were all looking for jobs.
 
Years ago I had a District manager (3rd level of management) who would meet with employees once a year without 1st and 2nd level managemment present to hear suggestions and complaints. That way nobody's boss could hear what was discused. Even more important, the District man actually followed up and changes got made in how things were done.
 
In 1998 I left a large auto supplier and I was told by a Quality engineer that I worked with to go right to the VP of Manuf. and tell him how fooked up the company is, cause I was leaving anyway. I explained to him that there was no accountability, etc. and within a few weeks the QA manager was Fired, yep Fired. (and he needed to be) A few other people were canned too. But in 2002 the place was closed anyway......So it didnt matter much.
You need to have a person that is leaving the company go to a head honcho and tell him the nitty gritty.
 
Approach the situation tactfully, & follow the chain of command. Some times it works, sometimes not. Worked in both union & nonunion shops. This has worked for me. Go to immediate supervisor, have it written out showing how doing something differently will save costs in time, materials, equipment, labor required,or make a better product.
Just one example- worked for a scheduled line bus company, not the one with a running dog on the side. Two particular routes started at 5:30 pm, layover out of town, return the next day, one returned at noon, other returned at 4:00 pm. Another driver & I rotated routes, short route, then longer route, working 5 trips, then 2 trips off. Do the "quick turn" one day, have afternoon off next. Our days off rotated, so 1 relief driver covered our days off. He/she also would cover days off for other routes/drivers, getting in a full week. Busses were assigned to the route, so we had to slide seats every day. One bus would be at shop from noon to 5:00 every day. Other would be in from 4:00 to 5:00, just enough time to sweep floor, fuel up & wash windshield.
Two problems- if the bus arriving at 4:00 was delayed by traffic or weather it put both outbound behind schedule, one driver late, other waiting for his bus. If the later incoming was due for service or repair it required cutting it out for a day, cut in a spare for that trip.
Suggestion- assign bus to the driver, not the route. This way each bus would be at shop at noon on alternate days. Service & complete cleaning could be scheduled.
Discussed plan with shop manager first, he agreed, took it to dispatcher, on up the chain of command. Was approved within 2 days.
Willie
 
It really has less to do with the individuals than it does the culture of the company you work for. Where I work, (about 1000 employees), we have a continuous improvement department that reports directly to the VP of manufacturing. All through the leadership structure there is an attitude of embracing and encouraging improvements. Our founder is an engineer that was fired several times for suggesting improvements. He jokes that he had to start his own company because he couldn't hold a job. He started the company 40 years ago with an attitude of improving an industry. You're not likely to change a lot of attitudes quickly. Just be tactful and respectful. And don"t expect too much.
 
Years back, I worked for a company that was all military contracts. It had about 1500 employees on 3 shifts. They hired a quality control outfit to find the problems in production and how to fix them.

After many meetings with employees and evaluating the plant problems, they figured out that all the problems were in upper management.

Upper management did the only thing that made sense to them. They fired the quality control outfit on the spot.

John
 
Amen to that; 'company culture'. I used to work for one of the biggest companies in the world and forgot that those who spoke up when asked somehow seemed to "disappear" until I did. The problem with "process improvement" is yhat whatever improvement you suggest means that someone who came up with the process before you did a lousy job. If they still happen to work there then you just asked for trouble.
 
A friend of mine was in charge of finding waste and fraud in the wendy's hamburger company.When
Dave thomas was alive he was told to lay off his son and investigate everyone else.When dave died the people that took wendy's over said dave's son wasn't off limits any more.Daves son got 4
franchise stores,two in florida,two in
california.He also had a very expensive corporate jet that cost more to maintain than the four stores.He had a lot of other overhead the company was paying for.My friend reported this to the new owners and within a couple weeks he lost his job.A friend in corporate said he did his job to well.
 
I found that, in a union environment, where there were actual procedures in place for the circumstances under which an employee could be fired, the "continuous improvement" plan worked best. In a place where you were strictly an "at-will" employee, you were better off being a "yes-man" no matter what you thought...because, as you said, any suggestions for improvement were taken as a frontal assault on the person who put the original procedures in place. And if the person who came up with the original procedure was the boss--or even if he/she was still a manager with the company--your job security was an evaporating myth.

It became personal...what started as, "How can we make the process better, and make the company run smoother?" soon became, "Well, if you think there's a better way to do it, maybe you need to start your own company and do it your way." People look at their ideas the way they look at their kids--and God be with you if you dare criticize their "kids" !!! I've since learned that when folks like that ask for suggestions, they are seeking confirmation that their idea or their process is still the best that mankind has ever imagined; and for someone to suggest otherwise is to show their disloyalty to the company, and to their boss.

Yeah, I know...small people, small minds. But when those small people control your paycheck, best course is just to nod in agreement, tell them everything's perfect the way it is, and continue to draw that paycheck.
 
I work for a union shop and we have what he calls himself a "Business Manager". He wants suggestions but he always says they won't work or it won't be cost effective. If there is an idea that he thinks works he waits a week or so and then goes into the bosses with it and it's usually implemented and he gets an attaboy. The guys in the shop stopped giving any ideas, and it's go in do your job and go home, that's basically what the owner's want. Of course we never make any money on any work we do, and if we do it's not enough. The employees make too much money and we could be replaced with people off the street for half the money due to the economy.
 
I'm a manager in a major corporation. Our suggestion program rewards employees who submit good suggestions. From time to time I'm asked to evaluate suggestions in my area. The vast majority of the suggestions we receive are terrible. They fall into the following categories:

1. Somebody already thought of the idea, and a plan is in place to implement it.

2. Somebody already thought of the idea, but it was rejected for good reasons.

3. The suggestion doesn't make any sense, is incomprehensible, or otherwise isn't something that is actually implementable.

I'm not saying that there are no good suggestions, but employees who actually have good ideas usually get them implemented on their own. It's called "doing your job".
 
"The key to success is to get out into the store and listen to what the associates have to say. It's terribly important for everyone to get involved. Our best ideas come from clerks and stock-boys." Sam Walton.
 
Most places I've worked "doing your job" means doing WHAT you're told, the WAY you're told to do it, and not asking questions or making suggestions, if you want to KEEP that job. If you want to change a procedure, you can save your nickels and dimes and start your own company and THEN you can change a procedure...because if there actually was a better way to do something, the engineers would've already thought of it.

And if a company actually ASKS for suggestions or ideas...it's usually because they want to get rid of people who "over-think" their jobs, and replace them with people who won't ask questions. For a company to actually solicit ideas because they think the people on the job might actually know a better way to do ANYTHING is an insult to company engineers, and such disrespect won't generally be tolerated in a corporate atmosphere.

Know your job, do it better than anyone else, and know your place and keep your mouth shut...usually helps one stay employed. Answering a solicitation for ideas is usually a trap.
 
That philosophy is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I've encountered in most workplaces.

And Sam Walton is long dead now. He also had a thing about "Made-in-the-USA" products, too, and look what Wal-Mart has done to that philosophy.
 
I agree with Buzzman. If you want to keep your job,keep your mouth shut. No matter how stupid the way they have you doing it maybe. Tell them a better way and you will be looking for a job.
 
It's funny at my work, I can go in and tell the owner and supervisor the same idea every day for a week straight with no results. However if I go in and tell it to the secretary and phrase it right so she repeats it to them it is usually followed within the week! Then it's the usual "You need to tell us what is going on at these jobs so we know if you ned any help ar anything." I spent 2 years keeping track of that and not 1 time in two years when I needed a hand did I get it. Now they have a good idea that I'm quitting and I have a helper 3 times a week whether I need him or not! Kinda makes you wonder what was so difficult to understand about "Hey I need some help to day for......."
 
What Old and Buzzman are saying is correct, unfortunately. Don't ask how I know.

When I worked for PCA, I had a dairyman customer who wasn't doing well. The obvious reason was that he was a box of rocks (inheriting a farm isn't merit-based).

One time, he asked me to come out and go over everything with him, and try to come up with ideas on how he could improve. "Now be honest", he said.

Well, even I wasn't stupid enough to tell him that the main problem was operator cluelessness. But I did go over some stuff with him- one thing I recall is that he spent his time feeding cows and heifers (with a cumbersome enough system that it pretty much took all his time), while hired men milked the cows. I even tried to stroke him a little, by saying "You're the one who has a stake in how those cows are milked, and have the experience to do it right." Of course, both of us knew that the reason he was the "outside man" is that he hated milking.

I hadn't even got back to the office before he called my boss and said "I never want to see that guy again." Boss called my in, I told him the story. He just smiled, and then told me how the world worked. "When someone says give it to me straight", they probably don't mean it. But my biggest mistake was doing this in front of his wife. Turns out I was saying the exact same stuff as wife had been telling him, and once I left, she really started in on him. Boss said if you ever are put in that position again, tell the guy, "lets go out an look around, and we'll see what we come up with", even if you don't care a whit about whats out there. That way, the guy can filter it the way he wants, and you're not insulting him in front of his wife.

Pretty much the same way in the chain of command. Sam Walton could make it work because you can bet he didn't rat out the stock boy on what he said about his local supervisors. But most places are slaves to the "chain of command", and you get the results that Buzzman and several others spoke of.
 
I worked for a GM and had good and bad results with the suggestion program. I had pretty good luck with purely technical suggestions. Any suggestion involving management was usually a loser. I guess telling the boss politely that he isn't doing his job is a art form. On technical suggestions, usually the only person that would not consider a change was the engineer that was responsible for the process. As far as product suggestions, those could be quite involved, as everything had to be validated thru product engineering and possibly emissions testing. I never recieved any job threats, I was in a union envionment, that would be tolerated. I did see a couple of suggestions implemented that eliminated jobs, but I never heard of the union blocking anything.
 
(quoted from post at 09:19:26 08/14/11) It's funny at my work, I can go in and tell the owner and supervisor the same idea every day for a week straight with no results. However if I go in and tell it to the secretary and phrase it right so she repeats it to them it is usually followed within the week! Then it's the usual "You need to tell us what is going on at these jobs so we know if you ned any help ar anything." I spent 2 years keeping track of that and not 1 time in two years when I needed a hand did I get it. Now they have a good idea that I'm quitting and I have a helper 3 times a week whether I need him or not! Kinda makes you wonder what was so difficult to understand about "Hey I need some help to day for......."
Click to expand...
Funny, sounds like my wife. I can talk to her endlessly, but it seems like she doesn't hear me. I metion something to her mother, and it's a great idea!!!! :roll: I should say that I get on the the MIL pretty good. :D
 
Sounds like the place I work at. Managers tend to harass people who point out management failings.
Come in early, leave late, breaks and lunches on time. Say nothing.
Managers by the most part are not able to find any tangible faults and reasons for firing besides time keeping.
 
I'm with you on that. Put a roll of numbered tickets next to the suggestion box. Suggester writes the ticket number on his entry and puts the ticket in his wallet. If and when the idea is used the number is published and the ticket holder is rewarded, cited, or fired.

Areo
 
Management IMHO get worse and worse every day. From personal experience, if you aren't telling them what they want to hear you have a BAD ATTITUDE. Currently I "de-moted" myself and am quite content doing what I have always done best - being a leader in manufacturing. F#%@ upper management!
 
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