Earlier tonight i saw 3 vehicles on my property in the dark and i went across the road to investigate.I'm in ohio.There was a pickup pulling a car with a chain and another car all with kentucky plates.The pickup was about to drive through my grass to turn around when i pulled in.I had a gun in my hand and questioned the guy as to what he was doing.He said he was trying to turn around.I opened the gate so he could drive out.A half hour later two sheriffs cars were at my house.The guy called the sheriff,said i pointed a gun at him.The deputy wanted my side and said he would call the prosecutor to see if any charges would be filed against me.I guess you can't even protect your own property any more.The deputy told me to call them instead of checking myself.
- Thread starter Ray
- Start date
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known Member
I never approach someone with gun in hand. In Michigan unless the gun is in a holster it is considered brandishing.
But I have approached many people with gun in holster and my hand on it.
But I have approached many people with gun in holster and my hand on it.
Emphasize to the sheriff that you didn't point a gun at anyone, it's your word against him and he could be considered a trespasser. To reinforce your basic good will, point out that you helped the guy when he asked you to.
You will have to check your state laws. In my state you can carry a gun on your own property.
KEH
I remember when, 4 or 5 years ago, Venus Ramey confronted two would be thieves in her Kentucky farmyard. Venus was 82 years old and had a .38 revover trained on them. One of the perps told her to just put the gun away, they would drive away and everything would be OK. At that point she shot one of the tires of their truck out. They took off running and when apprehended by a Sheriff's deputy told him that she had shot at them. The deputy informed them: "She didn't shoot at you, she shot your tire out. I know this lady, if she'd shot at you you wouldn't be talking about it." Venus Ramey, by the way, was 1944 Miss America from Kentucky and was most proud of the fact that her picture was painted on the nose of a B-17 that made it back safely every time. Never lost a man.
Bob Huntress
Member
"I guess you can't even protect your own property any more"
Don't you hate that? Ask the sherriff who is responsible shouldthese intruders hurt themselves while stealing your outdoor equipment? We are lucky that our empirical government allows us to keep a gun or two around for show or deer season. If you fight even city hall, they will require a background check to own a computer, what are you to do?
Don't you hate that? Ask the sherriff who is responsible shouldthese intruders hurt themselves while stealing your outdoor equipment? We are lucky that our empirical government allows us to keep a gun or two around for show or deer season. If you fight even city hall, they will require a background check to own a computer, what are you to do?
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Yep any more your had no matter what you do. If you call the cops by the time they get there the damage is done and the person is gone already. It you go out with a gun your the bad guy and you can end up in jail. If you park so as to block them in again your had. I was told to call 911 and then go talk to the person. Oh and when you call 911 say something like need help some one sneaking around your place or some other such type of thing and that way maybe the cops will get there on time. Also it is good to take pictures of the person and what they are driving so you have proof
Taken from an e mail I received:
A WORD TO THE WISE
Comments and sayings from various Conceal Carry Instructors.
It is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
And you can take that to the bank.
Words of Wisdom:
If you own a gun, you will appreciate this.
If not, you should get one and learn how to use it.
Shooting Advice:
Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not to protect you.
'Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arm’s length and never
say "I’ve got a gun". If you feel you need to use deadly force, for heaven’s
sake let the first sound they hear be the safety clicking off. They
shouldn't have time to hear anything after that if you are doing your job.'
'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the response time
of a 9mm/.357 or .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'
"The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win - and cheat if necessary."
"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with
your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it's going to
be empty."
"If you end up in a gun fight, if you're not shooting,' you should be loading.'
If you're not loading', you should be moving', if you're not moving', your dead."
"In a life and death situation, do something. It may be wrong, but do something."
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you
have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for?"
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but
I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the
universal language."
"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."
"You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family."
John T
A WORD TO THE WISE
Comments and sayings from various Conceal Carry Instructors.
It is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
And you can take that to the bank.
Words of Wisdom:
If you own a gun, you will appreciate this.
If not, you should get one and learn how to use it.
Shooting Advice:
Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not to protect you.
'Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arm’s length and never
say "I’ve got a gun". If you feel you need to use deadly force, for heaven’s
sake let the first sound they hear be the safety clicking off. They
shouldn't have time to hear anything after that if you are doing your job.'
'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the response time
of a 9mm/.357 or .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'
"The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win - and cheat if necessary."
"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with
your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it's going to
be empty."
"If you end up in a gun fight, if you're not shooting,' you should be loading.'
If you're not loading', you should be moving', if you're not moving', your dead."
"In a life and death situation, do something. It may be wrong, but do something."
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you
have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for?"
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but
I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the
universal language."
"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."
"You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family."
John T
ShadetreeRet
Well-known Member
Heck, around here if you call the sheriff's office, the perps could be in the next county before the sheriff ever showed up.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
In most states, you aren't allowed to "brandish" a gun. In other words, use it in a threatening manner. Of course, your hillbilly visitors wanted to cause problems for you, so they told the sheriff that you pointed your gun at them. I'm sure the deputies know the score and I would be very surprised if anything comes of it. Just the same, were I you, I would call an attorney before you have any further contact with the sheriff's department or prosecutor.
Lou from Wi.
Well-known Member
Ray ,the situation you post is TRULY a 2 sided coin.Holding a firearm in a situation you described bears EXTREME CAUTION. All some one on either side looses their temper, then the situation really becomes pardon the pun) EXPLOSIVE.Sure the correct reply,depends on the people intruding with a somewhat reasonable explanation ie. turning around, lost, ,those type of examples. I would guess you are a ways away from police protection and have to wait for em to come and investigate. Facing down intruders is quite a challenge when it comes to banishing a weapon. Lots of thoughts goes through the mind, theirs and yours both.Any way I do understand your problem and sympathies with your problem. Wishing you a rightful solution and a reasonable conclusion . Regards LOU.
omahagreg
Well-known Member
A couple of years back, a Walgreens drug store was being held up by two. Customer draws a pistol on them, kills one. One of his bullets went up the barrel of the perps gun! He had a permit for the gun, just not the conceal carry. Charges were pending, but in the end all charges were dropped against the customer! Drives me crazy when a property is posted 'no weapons allowed' as that means only the bad guys will be packin'!
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
The other day I was asked by a friend to go out to his place and get a tractor started for him because it would not start for him. Well I needed to get gas before I went to his place so I asked the people who owned the store if I could walk into there store with my 44mag on my side. Deer season here and my friend said if I saw a deer on his place I could shoot it. Any how the store owner said it was ok for me to go in there store with it on my side. They did say if some one else did that they might worry but no worries with me doing it
Tim in Montana
Member
Remember when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Tim in Montana
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Ray,
I would have done the same as you. As a matter of fact I have always carried a firearm with me when I've heard vehicles running through my property at night knowing good and well that a trespasser, thief, or poacher is messing around. The sheriffs dept is 30 minutes away from me and I can't expect them to be here as quick as they need to be when called. Some may disagree with me but thats there opinion and I don't care. You have the right to own a firearm in this country and you have the right to use it when necessary.
I would have done the same as you. As a matter of fact I have always carried a firearm with me when I've heard vehicles running through my property at night knowing good and well that a trespasser, thief, or poacher is messing around. The sheriffs dept is 30 minutes away from me and I can't expect them to be here as quick as they need to be when called. Some may disagree with me but thats there opinion and I don't care. You have the right to own a firearm in this country and you have the right to use it when necessary.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
This is a case where a .44 mag strapped conspicuously to the side of your leg does sufficient talking to strangers without getting you a lecture from the "authorities" afterwards.
Stuck into the front of your pants with 1/2 half of it exposed does the job too. It's too darned big to miss seeing so you don't need to brandish it.
Stuck into the front of your pants with 1/2 half of it exposed does the job too. It's too darned big to miss seeing so you don't need to brandish it.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Yep and in most cases a person sees that and thinks twice. Many times I step out of my place with a 44mag on my side and no one has said a thing about it but one guy and I told him he was trespassing and better leave NOW
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Ya minutes like 60 or 120 minutes if your lucky but in my area it cam be hours which is still minutes just many many of them
Organicfarmer1972
Member
I've approached many in the last 26 years with my handgun out.
My method is to keep it discreetly behind me while I talk with them. If they are OK or the situation doesn't call for deadly force, I simply turn my holster side away and put it back. That way they never see the weapon but it is in my hand in case I need it.
I also try to keep a smile on my face while I'm talking (even if I scared sh!#less). It diffuses the situation most of the time and I don't have to use force near as often (no, I've never had to resort to deadly force, yet).
It works the same if I'm confronting someone on my land on my personal time.
I like the earlier comments regarding a person tried by 12 rather than carried by 6. Courts most always side with land or home owners.
When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. Very true statement and another reason of why I teach CHL classes.
My method is to keep it discreetly behind me while I talk with them. If they are OK or the situation doesn't call for deadly force, I simply turn my holster side away and put it back. That way they never see the weapon but it is in my hand in case I need it.
I also try to keep a smile on my face while I'm talking (even if I scared sh!#less). It diffuses the situation most of the time and I don't have to use force near as often (no, I've never had to resort to deadly force, yet).
It works the same if I'm confronting someone on my land on my personal time.
I like the earlier comments regarding a person tried by 12 rather than carried by 6. Courts most always side with land or home owners.
When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. Very true statement and another reason of why I teach CHL classes.
I hope it turns out OK for you.
My brother lives in Northern Ohio. He caught a thief red handed breaking into his neighbor's home. He held the thief at gunpoint until the sherrif arrived. Darned near got in as much trouble as the thief.
I caught a thief in my neighbor's barn, here in Southern Illinois, stealing coils of copper wire and tubing. Blocked him in with the wife's car. Had a loaded unholstered .38 in my back pocket. Sherrif was on his way and I was wondered how he'd respond concerning the pistol. When he arrived, I told him about the pistol in my back pocket, and I'd let him take it if he wanted to. He said he wasn't worried about my .38 - end of story. I never had the pistol in my hand, but I had it with me because I didn't know how many knotheads I was dealing with, and I didn't intend to submit to an a$$ whooping. The thief knew I had it, and I told him I didn't want to hurt him, but would if necessary or if he got too close. Thief finally spent time in prison, not for that one theft, but for several in addition to that one.
My brother lives in Northern Ohio. He caught a thief red handed breaking into his neighbor's home. He held the thief at gunpoint until the sherrif arrived. Darned near got in as much trouble as the thief.
I caught a thief in my neighbor's barn, here in Southern Illinois, stealing coils of copper wire and tubing. Blocked him in with the wife's car. Had a loaded unholstered .38 in my back pocket. Sherrif was on his way and I was wondered how he'd respond concerning the pistol. When he arrived, I told him about the pistol in my back pocket, and I'd let him take it if he wanted to. He said he wasn't worried about my .38 - end of story. I never had the pistol in my hand, but I had it with me because I didn't know how many knotheads I was dealing with, and I didn't intend to submit to an a$$ whooping. The thief knew I had it, and I told him I didn't want to hurt him, but would if necessary or if he got too close. Thief finally spent time in prison, not for that one theft, but for several in addition to that one.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
"Brandishing" a gun on or at someone who is not threatening you with a same kind threat or deadly force threat can be consider a violation of the law in many states. Charges would have to be filed and proven, of course, I don't think if a car was broken down or even trespass is considered a deadly force threat. Certainly a holstered gun is warranted in many situations for insurance.However,threatening someone with a pointed/drawn gun can have consequences for the owner if someone wanted to press charges.
Ray, Makes you wish you lived in Texas. Next time carry a Double Barrel, Then when every thing seams couisher(ms) Break it open and carry it over you arm. Just inform the uninvited guest you were hunting (Varmints), Tell the Sheriff Deputy the same thing. Re inform him YOU Live Here! They are transients, and Uninvited, and you felt Threatened! By their presents! If they didn't feel comfortable well that is just tough!...OBTW...Just don't specify what kind of Varmints, either!!!
Later,
John A.
Later,
John A.
That sucks Ray. I would explain it is your property and with economy how it is and folks stealing everything for scrap you were being cautious.
Here in FL we have Castle Domain - see link below. You may also look on same site for OH gun laws.
The PT145 goes where I go. 10+1 45 ACP.
Castle Domain
Here in FL we have Castle Domain - see link below. You may also look on same site for OH gun laws.
The PT145 goes where I go. 10+1 45 ACP.
Castle Domain
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Just because he carried a hand gun in his hand doesn't mean he threaten them with it. They don't want to meet a land owner they shouldn't go driving on other people's land.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Agreed.
There is nothing you can tell them that your lawyer can't say better.
There is nothing you can tell them that your lawyer can't say better.
Ray My observation of your post meant you only had a gun, at your side posing no direct threat to the other guy.. It was only there to prove you would protect your self if he brandished a weapon to stop you from using it.
Long time ago I was hunting about 100 yards off an old side road sitting waiting for a drive to come through ( My guys were doing the drive and sent me around the hill in a vehicle to bring them back) So I had a loaded gun watching for deer to come through I noticed a pickup parked near my car and he loaded up his gun it was cold and he was only in a warm vest with the orange vest, and hat. he walked directly to me with the rifle (at ready, but at waist level sideways to me), and told me I was trespassing, and I had to leave. seems like I was about 200 yards inside his line he had posted , and he was nice about it I apologized, started to leave when he said . "it's Ok for this one time.just to finish the drive out,but not to come back" he turned around went to his truck and unloaded his gun, and left.
I never felt threatened as he was only protecting what was his , but if he would have directly pointed it at me... I would have felt it to be excessive force.
Long time ago I was hunting about 100 yards off an old side road sitting waiting for a drive to come through ( My guys were doing the drive and sent me around the hill in a vehicle to bring them back) So I had a loaded gun watching for deer to come through I noticed a pickup parked near my car and he loaded up his gun it was cold and he was only in a warm vest with the orange vest, and hat. he walked directly to me with the rifle (at ready, but at waist level sideways to me), and told me I was trespassing, and I had to leave. seems like I was about 200 yards inside his line he had posted , and he was nice about it I apologized, started to leave when he said . "it's Ok for this one time.just to finish the drive out,but not to come back" he turned around went to his truck and unloaded his gun, and left.
I never felt threatened as he was only protecting what was his , but if he would have directly pointed it at me... I would have felt it to be excessive force.
Lou from Wi.
Well-known Member
Ray here is my picture of our arsnel for protection and a recent picture of me (in uniform) when I got out of the service, in protection mode. Notice the helmet.Helps with he noise when firing the weapons lol regards LOU
Lou from Wi.
Well-known Member
Roy. The need to warn tresspassers who are not stealing, damaging property, can be talked into leaving your propery with out the display of a weapon. Notice I didn't say absence of a weapon. Having a ccp goes a long way as a deterant in this type circumstance.Power(PHYSICAL)struggles between people who are tresspassers and those land owners can become violent in a heart beat. Taking alife for such a small mistake as a tresspass just isn't (imho)worth it. Taking a license number (back tag) ruck plate ,then turn it into the local sheriff . Maybe nothing ever comes from the report/investigation-but the prelude was correct. again IMHO. LOU.
Get a lawyer, that is #1.
Was the gun on a sling on your back or a pistol on your hip. Or were you like Chuck Conners in the show "The Rifleman" Where you were just walking around with it free?
If the gun is on a sling or holstered in your hip then I dont see a problem, but I am not the law. I would likely have done the same thing if a jerkoff was on my land. In fact I go outside with a shotgun during hunting season just in case a guy takes a shot at me with a bow or gun.
Pointing a gun at someone is a felony. Did you get that guys license plate #?
BTW: Protecting you land is not allowed unless they break into your house, then it is open season.
Was the gun on a sling on your back or a pistol on your hip. Or were you like Chuck Conners in the show "The Rifleman" Where you were just walking around with it free?
If the gun is on a sling or holstered in your hip then I dont see a problem, but I am not the law. I would likely have done the same thing if a jerkoff was on my land. In fact I go outside with a shotgun during hunting season just in case a guy takes a shot at me with a bow or gun.
Pointing a gun at someone is a felony. Did you get that guys license plate #?
BTW: Protecting you land is not allowed unless they break into your house, then it is open season.
i dont know how the laws back east are written, but here if you find yourself on a farm or ranch without the owners permission you will probably meet the owner, 100% chance he'll be armed, 50% chance your reason for being there will allow you to leave in one piece,law here is well we got 2 to 3 deputies to cover a county larger than most eastern states,and millions of acres of nothing and nobody, rule 2 is if a lawyer gets involved in anything, he will wind up with all the money, or your wife lol one or the other
First and foremost, never talk to the Police, refuse to give a statement, most people convict themselves. The Police are not allowed to use any judgement or common sense anymore and the vast majority are too stupid to do so if it were allowed. The law is not to protect property owners and citizens rights anymore, it is to raise revenue, the only people who can pay are law abiding, working citizens. Dopeheads and drunks go to jail and eat for free, they cost money, that is why thre are so many of them running around loose, driving around in uninsured cars stealing, selling dope etc. Ever wonder why everyone in the community except the Police seem to know about these type of people? As far as calling the Police out to investigate you will be dead or robbed blind before they get there.
mike in new mexico
Member
BINGO !!
OK first check the laws of your state! Make sure that you can carry a gun in your hand when you are not threatened or maybe your state has a retreat clause. As long as they stick to the same story you may wind up in trouble. Also take the time to look up the prosecute for your area. Most often if they are anti gun they will try to charge and prosecute any time there is a gun related incident. May not be what they should do but they allow their personal or political agends rule. Look at the ones who have charged people for legally defending themselves just over the size gun they used or because of hand loads. They claim that using a large caliber or hand loads shows intent.
2 consider this, when confronting people who are trespassing (note people as in more than one) it is your word against theirs even if they are lying as to what happened or was said.
You are way better off to take a long gun and binos, stay out of pistol range, observe and get a plate number then call the cops. If they do decide to become a threat to you you have the long gun and stand off ranges while most often if they have bad ideas they will have a hand gun.
Again the laws of your state are the only ones that matter! Laws of my state don't count unless you are in MN too.
Rick
2 consider this, when confronting people who are trespassing (note people as in more than one) it is your word against theirs even if they are lying as to what happened or was said.
You are way better off to take a long gun and binos, stay out of pistol range, observe and get a plate number then call the cops. If they do decide to become a threat to you you have the long gun and stand off ranges while most often if they have bad ideas they will have a hand gun.
Again the laws of your state are the only ones that matter! Laws of my state don't count unless you are in MN too.
Rick
A couple of guys turning around doesn't justify using a weapon. I have had local rednecks run thru my yard with a 4x4, but I am not going shoot somebody over it. Stupid people are a pain, but that doesn't justify the death penalty. Btw, most of our rednecks here are 2nd or 3rd generation outta Kentucky.... I think there might be a genetic thing going on there. But since you are from Ohio, I'm surprised you'd notice!!! 
I think you did the right thing. You can't be too careful these days. A couple of years ago a tornado hit my area. Tore us up pretty good. That evening police showed up wanted to know if I was staying at my place at night. I said yes and had a shotgun leaning against the door jam at the time. He told me that police would be patrolling all night and to make sure I was shooting at one of the good guys . Never said anything about calling them first.
Forgot to mention, remember Bernard Getts, the subway shooter. I dont remember exactly what happened to him, but he shot 4 black kids on the subway and he even said, "you look okay, here is another" and shot him again. He may have got probation.
A trial by Jury would likely get you off with a fine, worst case. As long as you have an all rural folks jury.
A trial by Jury would likely get you off with a fine, worst case. As long as you have an all rural folks jury.
Got some pretty savvy local deputies where I live. they know the score. Had a real troublemaker just up the road several years ago. He would get drunk and race his hopped up Mustang up and down the road slinging gravel everywhere. Had several young kids in the area at the time. One of the neighbors politely asked him to cease and desist. When the neighbor turned to walk away, he was clobbered from behind with a big roundhouse. got up and promptly beat the schit out of him. Then called the sheriff. When the sheriff got there, the guy was still laying on the ground out cold. Nuttin happened to the neighbor. Another time, he went knocking on one's door with a loaded rifle. The neighbor came to the door with a bigger gun. the old troublemaker left. Here comes the sheriff. Neighbor told the sheriff if that ever happened again he would shoot him. Sheriff told my neighbor to just make sure the guy had a firearm close by by the time they got there. They were tired of his trouble making ways. It would be good riddance for all. If he hadn't sold out and moved away, he would have been dead by now. For all I know he is.
Noah W
Noah W
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