Further comment on tractor collecting's future

Pete76NY

Well-known Member
Right on time the Guy in New Hampshire with the really nice and waaaaaayyyyyy overpriced tractors for sale on photo ads hit again: Case SC "Rare Tractor" and I think he is askin" like $4800. Well that"s fine, lt is his and he can ask what he wants, but here is the problem it creates: I know where there are several SCs and DCs sitting in the dingweeds...certainly not rare (maybe if they have foot clutch, Eagle Hitch and wide front they would be a little more desireable, but certainly not rare...Waterloo Boys are rare, 730 HiCrop LPs are rare, Hen"s Teeth are rare)anyway, I stop and inquire, invariably I hear "well it was my Great Uncles it"s been there for years I don"t know what it"s worth." Instead of appearing like I am trying to steal it and tell him that on it"s BEST most restored nothing wrong day it"s a $1500-$1800 tractor, so in it"s present condition it is worth $600, I tell him to see what he can come up with and call me back. Soon I"ll get a call, "well my buddy knows a guy who has an old tractor, he told us to look on Yesterday"s Tractors to get and idea...hey that tractor is rare! It"s worth over $4000!" One of the BIG reasons not so much collectin" gettin" done now days!
 
I just commented on the other post..

You have hit the nail on the head for me..

And if you were to try to talk them into reasonable money, yup, you just wanna rip me off..

My uncle had a SC Case.. all said and done, it was ROUGH.. But back 30+ ago when he parked it it had new rear tires (which are still good tread, but about shot from weather checking) and the drive chains were new.. It has to be worth a grand, right?

So I try to get it bought.. well, now the engine is stuck, like I said tires are about shot (even though they were new), and he parked it because "I think the mag was goin out or something.. it's been so long ago I can't remember anymore" he says..

Well, I think to myself, if I invested tires and the new drive chains, I would have had a bad mag fixed, so there's probably something else.. Like it's just plum wore out.. So the negotiations begin.. He wants to hold firm, I wanna haggle him down some.. The tractor was in the family for a long time, sure would be nice to save it..

This went on for a long time.. we just couldn't meet on a price.. He scrapped it.. and he says "Well, at least they didn't try to steal it from me!"

Some people ya just can't reason with, but every now and again ya find the person who says "I just want someone to take it and get it goin again and keep it alive and love it like they did".. and they give ya a good deal on it.. I've been fortunate with one or 2 of those kinda guys.

Brad
 
Some of em don't even look up what it's worth anyplace. Local guy here has a ruff Ford 8N with the jungle gym Deerborn loader, really beat up rear blade, wrong fenders off a 100 series Ford and he's been trying to sell it for over a year. Had it up for auction twice where it failed to meet the reserve on it. Current condition I wouldn't offer more than 1200, last auction high bid was 1700. Had another one who was trying to sell a M and an H and ask 3k each. Tin was str8 but both needed tires and paint.

You see a lot of that with private sale autos too.

Rick
 
The other week a Little Giant went on the auction block. THAT"S RARE!! Ironicly it brought significantly less than the last one did some decades ago. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and unfortunately we can't fix ignorance. I'm guilty of that myself.
 
Okay dont get me wrong, I like old tractors and have collected and restored a few and still show at least one

HOWEVER IT HAS TO BE A DYING HOBBY AND HERES WHY

Think about it, most of the interest is because dad had that tractor or grandpa had that tractor or I did when I was young buttttttttttttttttt those generations (Greatest WWII, Baby Boomers like me, maybe our kids) ARE DYING OFF and I dont see our grandkids or kids ever having that bond. Sure any young boy loves a tractor, but the days of dad or grandpa having that tractor are coming to an end..

Prove me wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!! What say you????

A cynical John T
 
Of course all the divorced and separated Mothers that keep the children away from their Father. They have further weakened the Father-Grand Father bond to the boys.
Mothers don't take the boys fishing, hunting, to tractor shows, sports games or out to the "fix it" shop either.
 
No, I don't think so. Every mothers son is a "gear head" of sorts. They might like a classic or antique car but their knowledge and their budget prohibit that. So they choose a tractor. It's simple, it's affordable.
 
well go to the next tractor auction and just see how it is dying, don"t think so, round here stuff is selling for a little less money but is still moving well
 
Maybe we need a law. Some pre Reagan price controls. A Ford 8N is worth no less than $2500 and an H is worth $2500. M a little more.
Green As, Bs, 77s, 88s and All Yellow and Orange tractors not worth less than $2700. Guaranteed by the government and enforced by law...

The beauty of our system is that a thousand factors enter in to the value of a tractor or old car, an hour of labor for a man, or a call girl, diamond ring, barrel of oil, acre of land, bushel of wheat or ounce of gold.
They rise and fall as do the currencies they are traded in.
I doubt prices of old things will reach the heights they reached 5-8 years ago when the Boomers still had IRAs and 401s that were worth a lot. But old iron will always be a commodity that some folks make and some folks lose money on. And some folks will just want one because they're cool and $5K is not too much to pay for an Allis B.
 
Tractors in this area are bringing a little over scrap prices unless they are realy rare.Alot of older implements that are still usable are also going for scrap.
 
The biggest problem I see with tractor collecting, or collecting of any other type of vehicle is this. In years past pretty much everybody could afford a basic set of hand tools and work on nearly any vehicle they chose to, be it car, truck tractor, motorcycle, etc. With the advent of the ECM that controls everything things started downhill, and as of a few years ago I think the days of working on most anything with basic hand tools are gone. The machines that are available nowdays, and will be the antiques of the future generations, are going to be impossible for anyone to work on without the thousands in computer gear needed to make the engines run, etc, etc. Unfortunatly by the time the machines get to be antiques the computers needed to work on them will also be antiques and obsolete too. I believe they call this whole scenerio "Planned obsolescense"....and they are doing a good job is making everything, including a mechanic with a real brain to do the troubleshooting (a glorified parts changer doesn't need too many smarts...LOL), obsolete right along with everything else.

This all is the main reason I made the post I did the other day about buying old trucks, equipment, etc., instead of buyin new all the time. If we don't keep the old stuff alive with alot of TLC, like anything else, unfortunately it will die out.
 
John,
Might be but, my 25 year old stepson and his buddy as well as 15 year old daughter kinda like them.

Hope they keep this up for another few years - would like to "pass them down"!

Jim (Conservative, Christian, Old Fart)
 
BINGO B and D YOU Hit it on thne head ,,MY 1st wife done all she could to keep my boys out of the dirt of farmin ,, But Bouht them all sorts of tractor toys, to play with when she left and took them with her ,was; nt long ,, my 1st son came back to live here ,,2nd son did not ,, 1st son can do or fix anythin ,, 2nd son is still learnin now ..
 
(quoted from post at 16:56:34 11/30/11) Some of em don't even look up what it's worth anyplace. Local guy here has a ruff Ford 8N with the jungle gym Deerborn loader, really beat up rear blade, wrong fenders off a 100 series Ford and he's been trying to sell it for over a year. Had it up for auction twice where it failed to meet the reserve on it. Current condition I wouldn't offer more than 1200, last auction high bid was 1700. Had another one who was trying to sell a M and an H and ask 3k each. Tin was str8 but both needed tires and paint.

You see a lot of that with private sale autos too.

Rick

It's worth extra with hundred fenders. Ya can't get those LOL.
 
My wife hates it when I refer to a local battered womens shelter as "The bad Wifes Home". I believe the decline in long term relationships(Marriage) is an even split, yet to hear about it on tv, it's all the man. Every woman is the ideal trophy wife, and every man is a serial wife beater.
 
Yep, "Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Cowboys", Ed Bruce can suck a f@rt! Having to put up with my single flower-power-minus-drugs Mom....BELIEVE me, I know first hand what you are talking about. Love her to death even though she drives me up a wall. It's all I can do. Dad was around 'till I was 10 or 11 (33 now). He got remarried to one of them stubborn-jealous types. Fell into poor health about a year-or-so ago & it's the last I've heard from him. Still alive, I think. I'm honestly not entirely sure there's enough courtesy there to invite any of his "real" family to the funeral, either. The plot thickens & the shutt storm continues....

My Grandfather, on Dad's side, was an inventor. I don't know a ton about him. I know of some of his inventions & do recall some of the time we spent together, but he passed when I was ten. My Grandpa on my Mom's side was a farmer & that's where I get the "need to farm" from. My occasional inventiveness & intrests in model railroading & trains comes entirely from my Dad's side.

I've tried to inform these younger generations about the virtues of clean living, good health &
some form of agriculture or gardening. I'd say, 99.9999+% of them have little or no interest in anything not having to do with creature comforts. To many fools working for their bar tab, too.

Guess I had to vent a bit, my apologies,

Mike
 
I hope the price of tractors gets cheaper. I work on vehicles all day long and love to wrench on my old tractors at night. Its a labor of love. BUT i can't afford that certain parts tractor or parts cuz a guy trying to make a killing off the parts sale. I need a parts Super C tractor for parts to go on my super C that I rolled (almost killed me) but can't find one reasonable. Might as well throw the super C in the metal bin and just get another one. Shame cuz it got a C-153 and power.
The price of iron is a whole other subject.
 
What we see is a interest in later model tractors. Example 560.4010 etc. Our tractor club is working to get more young people involved. Our club I&I Penfield,IL. & Half Century Of Progress are having great interest from the FFA & 4H clubs in Illinois. Several are restoring tractors & selling raffle tickets at our shows. Take these young people out to the field let them drive your tractor. Some like to moldboard plow,or work with the threshing crews.I have seen some 35-40 yr. old that have never plowed. We had good attendance at both our shows this year. Thank You all for helping out.
 
I spent a year in Greece 1988-89 courtesy of Uncle Sam. If I remember the year I lived there the average Greek family made about $5,000. A Greek conscript was paid 1,000 Drachma a month which worked out to $6.00 American. The average Greek had a better idea of what something was worth and understood that a person doing something needs to make back his expenses and something for his time and troubles. To many Americans do not understand that and feel anyone making money of of them is guilty of theft or some other mortal sin. AND if you have something they want and you don't want to sell it to them at a loss you are taking advantage of them and need to be put in jail or "there outta be a law" in short the socialist Greeks have a better understanding of capitalism than we do. To many people look at old iron and say this part is worth x dollars and this is worth Y and add up the sum of the parts and figure that's what it's worth, and if you want it your gas, your taxes, your carrying costs, your tools, your risk and YOUR time don't figure into their equation -kind of the same theory unions use.
 
If you involve them they will keep the bug going. I know from my boys and grandsons. Even one of the grandsons is named Case. Just like cars, kids of today still like the 55's 57's Muscle cars. Just ask a few of them. Now tractors of today won't make the grade 50 years from now. That is a different story.
 
Yep Earl,
Bought a raffle ticket from just about every 4-H club at the Half Century of Progress.
Good to see the kids involved the way they are in central ILLINOIS!
 
I have three sons. All grew up on my very small farm running antique equipment and helping fix it occasionally. They are all very successful guys with strong work ethics and I'm very proud of them, but only one shows any interest in old iron, and then it's an old Camaro, not a tractor. I think that the whole thing of that "first car", hot rodding, hopping up a car, has not interested the next generation at all. They seem more interested in sports or electronics than anything with wheels. I can't remember what my Dad said was wrong with my generation, but there must have been something. I think his generation had some fond memories of farming with horses, but he never collected them. Maybe it's because everything changes, but I agree with the ridiculous pricing on the ad that was mentioned. If those tractors were worth those prices they'd have sold long ago.
 
I would regretfully say you are right and why i say is that these old restored classics just don't bring very much money...least not what i think they should .people just seem to want new
 
I have 2 sons. One I can't keep up with for the number of tractors he is buying and selling. The other is more conservative but has a nice collection. The oldest is 36, the younger one is 34. I grew up on a farm but never farmed and they haven't either but their uncles do farm. They have collected models that were never used when I was around the farm. They just have a natural interest in mechanical things, can take anything apart and fix it right. Might be inherited from their grandfather and passed on through me. He was a mechanic, inventor for over 40 years. Had his own shop. We always joke that when a tractor comes up for sale that needs work, it is just what we were looking for. Prices around here (SD) seem to be holding pretty good.
 
John you make a good point, but like always, there"s execptions to the rule. I was born in "67, and at the time I was born our "big tractors" on the ranch were a WD-9 and a 560(IH of course). Spent alot of time haying on A"s, H"s, M"s, and newer....but what"s interesting is that now, I still think of those as "using tractors", just "cause they"re so darn, well, usefull!

What really tripped my trigger as a young kid was the remains of an F-20 that was sitting in our junkpile...hadn"t been used since my dad was little(40"s). The first "old tractor" I ever bought for myself was, naturally, a running F-20. Since then, as time"s gone by, I"ve found myself drawn even more to the earlier stuff- old horsedrawn equipment in particular, but in general most anything used in my great grandfathers and great-great grandfathers time....and if I could find stuff earlier than that, well, I"d drag it home too!!!!

Point being- I didn"t grow up with(using) hardly any of the stuff I like to "collect"....it"s just that I like "old stuff"....my highschool age kids are sorta like that today also...and, although they(we) might become fewer in number as the years go by, there will always be people like us who crave having old things...simply because there will always be those who recognize and appreciate the craftsmanship, pride, and quality etc. that went into darn near each and every item that was built "back then". (For just an example, look at turn of the century school desks with their elaborate scrolled iron-work legs, compared to the "box on legs" kids sit at nowadays...)
 
My wife and I split when my kids were preschool age, and the kids came here to live on the ranch with me. A few years ago they both had a hankering to go live with their mom and "enjoy city life" 5 hours east of here near Omaha, and, since their mom and I still get along ok, I agreed.

I'm happy and pround to report that, as of this school year, both kids(17yr old son an 15yr old daughter) have decided they like it here better and are again living on the ranch with me and attending our local "rural" highschool...working in the hayfields in the summertime, helping with cattle work on weekends etc., and gettin' better grades to boot!

Kids will, by and large, figure out on their own what's good, provided they've had the proper opportunities.
 
I can only speak for myself but neither my father or grandfather owned a tractor. Neither of them was a farmer and I was born and raised in town. I purchased land in the country but I do not farm, I'm a cabinetmaker. I purchased a 1959 Case tractor and I really like the tractor and appreciate the history of the tractor and the Case Company. The model I have is a 210B which only 381 were made and I'm restoring it as authentic as I can.
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Can't prove you wrong, you cynical old goat!! I tend to agree with you.

I'm 68 and my interest is because when I was a little guy, my grandfather had a Ford 2N and there was no place I'd rather be than at his farm. Got a little older and my uncle had a Farmall M and Massey-Harris 44 that I drove and actually worked with for quite a few years. So those first experiences are very important and led me to where I am today.

And--back then--there was no internet, electronic games, computers, etc. etc. to siphon off my interest.

Changing times and changing circumstances contribute to changing interest. Prove me wrong!!!
 
People are free to ask what they want and free to offer what they are willing to pay. He can accept your offer, put the effort into finding a buyer willing to pay more or let it continue to sit in the weeds.
 
I'm not trying to "prove you wrong" here. I will point out that there has always been different types of "collectors."

There are those that just love anything old and mechanical. Many have no interest in "shows" and often have private collections never shown to anyone. Those sorts will always be around - my wife and I included. One of my sons also.

There is also the "newcomer" that wants to be part of something and follows fads. These sorts come and go like clockwork. Many can't wait to have the best thing to show off at a show. It is theses sorts that made old $50 tractors become $5000 tractors. Many I've met could not even change a spark plug. They just buy something ready to show.

Then there's the nosgtalgic person who is buying what he/she remembers when young. That of course can change as these people die off.
 
Thank goodness there are plenty of auctions to put things in perspective. You can still buy a tractor reasonable to fit any budget. Case in point last Sat in Lancaster county 400 tractors up for bid and most changing hands. JD 4020 4x4 for 18500.00 Well painted WD for950.00 People with overpriced tractors come around to reality eventually.
 
I think it's a situation of thinning the herd. The guy with fewer dollars for toys is not buying old tractors now. The guy who has been collecting for years and has some money burning a hole in his pocket will continue to buy old tractors and pay big dollars at auction for the right tractor. I was at an auction recently where all the big dollar tractors were going to well known buyers. The auctioneer was calling out the states where the tractors would be living. He knew the bidders well. I sold my parents place in town for big dollars before the economy did the nose dive. The buyer will never get what he paid until things turn around.
 
I've got a JD 50 in the photo ads now. and will take less than the asking price. But I can garuntee one thing, you cant't buy one running with everything working correctly, fix all the leaks, change all the fluids and all the other little things wrong with it, and have it painted for my asking price. Forgot the part about driving to get it or having it delivered.

Worth is a fleeting thing, and changes everyday. From one side of the country to the other, from top to bottom. Just because you are living smack in the middle of America and can buy it out of a fence row for cheap. Doesn't mean that tractor is worth th same as one in SC, ready to do what ever you want with it.

Sometimes you have to put things in perspective. I want a 730 standard Diesel but by the time I give $4-5,000 for one in Iowa or there abouts pay $1500-$2000 to get it to SC and then start to fix it up, I may as well go to someplace close and give the man $10,000.00 for one that is ready to use. I'm money and aggravation ahead.

This post is not pointed at any one in particular, just meant as a view from the other side of the fence.
 
My opinion (probably not worth much):

There's still interest among younger folks, it'll survive. We are not tractor "collectors" or expert tractor restorers, but my 11-year-old son asks me if we can "go work on the tractor" literally every day after he gets home from school and finishes his homework. Literally. Every day.

Now the tractors that they work on when they are older will probably change. My son loves the old Model A JD, but he spends all his actual driving time on the more modern tractor (in this case a 4520) when we are baling hay or doing chores around the house. That'll probably be the one he remembers (and wants to restore) when he's 60 and remembers the "good ole days".

Chet
 
Dodgeit ...and one heck of a nice 50 it is! I agree with you that if you wanted a turnkey 50 with no issues it"s a winner...BUT and no offense here, you would have to be seeking a 50 specifically and want to do NO work on it.
I do beg to differ on what I would have in one unless I really got snookered; Guy in our club has a fairly nice good running 50 for sale right now, has front weights, 1 set of rears and 501 hitch, paint is fair but I would redo it, tires gettin" iffy, leak here and there. IF i get serious about negotiating I can get "er home for abot 1800-2000...I am gonna have way less than 5G in it, and part of the fun for me is doing the work! This 70 was bought in baskets for 1100, have a total of about 3700 in it, and would be 400 less if had paid for Firestones at a reputable dealer to begin with...just replaced a Titan from Junior somebody"s tires that had sidewall crtacked so bad within 3 years it had to be replaced.
 
(quoted from post at 11:26:46 12/01/11) Dodgeit ...and one heck of a nice 50 it is! I agree with you that if you wanted a turnkey 50 with no issues it"s a winner...BUT and no offense here, you would have to be seeking a 50 specifically and want to do NO work on it.
I do beg to differ on what I would have in one unless I really got snookered; Guy in our club has a fairly nice good running 50 for sale right now, has front weights, 1 set of rears and 501 hitch, paint is fair but I would redo it, tires gettin" iffy, leak here and there. IF i get serious about negotiating I can get "er home for abot 1800-2000...I am gonna have way less than 5G in it, and part of the fun for me is doing the work! This 70 was bought in baskets for 1100, have a total of about 3700 in it, and would be 400 less if had paid for Firestones at a reputable dealer to begin with...just replaced a Titan from Junior somebody"s tires that had sidewall crtacked so bad within 3 years it had to be replaced.

Pete no offense taken. I was just simply pointing out that the worth of something is directly related to how far it is from the source. Your in Farm country, I'm in orchard country. That is a steal of a price in SC, but probably an OK deal in NY. If you can do all the work yourself so much the better. I do allot of my own work but have to farm somethings out due to time constraints ( full time job 60 hrs a week).

The best part is supply and demand, the market will set the price it sells for. Do I expect to sell the 50 into farm country? No. Will it sell around here? Maybe not for 5K, but I will get what I need to break even.
 
Some clubs "get it"- Was coming into a show one time, and guy at the gate was pondering whether to let a teenage kid in with an early '60's JD (2010 as I recall)- "Rules say tractors have to be pre-1960, but let me talk to someone". Another club guy was near me, and I overheard "I don't care if he just drove a new one over from the Deere dealer- he's a kid interested in tractors. I want him in here."
 
it just all depends on the person take me for example i'm now 23 me and my dad have been collecting oliver tractors for over ten years now i mowed lawn every day all summer to buy or first tractor a 1943 oliver 60. We never lived on a farm and none of our imediate family members have oliver tractors but i've been hooked since day one and will pass them to my children someday. Most kids now days are to wrapped up in video games and not getting outside and enjoying things that dont run off electricity. you all may think its a dying thing but it will never die the idea of what is an antique tractor may change but there will always be ppl restoring old tractors if it's as new as a ih 1066 or whatever.
 
AAA-Men! I graduated high school with two couples who then married and had "boys" ,the she,s decided the farm life where they had grown up was NEVER going to happen to THEIR boys. It didn't! They ended up in jail. I just love when we see her and I just have to ask (very seriously of course) how her boys are getting along. Usually no answer. Hmmmmm? Tractor or Big Bubba? Good judgement , Ma!
 

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