OT... Bad News... Foreclosure (Long)

Hello everyone, hope you all had a great holiday season.

I usually am posting over on the Case and Farmall boards, but figured since this is more of a general topic I figured I would post on here since I have always gotten good advice on YT no matter where I have posted.

Well, to make a long story short, I have been searching for a full time job since June, 2009. Have worked numerous part time gigs and was able to keep up with the house payments. April, 2011 came around and was let go from a part time gig. Immediately contacted the bank and started a Home Modification process.

I have been battling with the bank ever since then (unable to make payments) and found a part time job again in June 2011. Having had many troubles getting ahold of my 'home preservation specialist' I decided to take it to the supervisors and then their supervisors back in November. Since then it has been going somewhat smoothly. I have been submitting the documents that they have requested via FedEx time and time again. December 7th I started a new career in the MN Dept of Corrections and received my first pay stub on Dec 30th. I have again followed their request and submitted the income amount to them as of yesterday. Just this week I have received a letter from an attorney regarding a sheriff's sale date (2-17-12) and a date a mandatory vacate. I have been trying at any way I can to prevent this, I just don't know what to do. This is my first home, bought it when I was 20 and now am 25, and I guess I am just looking for some advice or guidance. Can't move in with mom or dad as the same problems have plagued them throughout my life. I am definitely stuck and troubled, and would appreciate any input you all may have..

Thanks and I hope everyone is doing well.

-Ken

Have been in your shoes. We were jerked around over a home many years ago. Tried to work things out with the bank without success. Its a long, ugly story. We had no choice but to walk away.

I pray your situation will have a better ending.

The only thing I can think of is to consult an attorney. I've seen a lot on the news lately about banks overstepping the law regarding foreclosures. It might buy you a little more time.

Consult with an attorney, would be my recommendation..

It's just a house--you only owned it for 5 years and probaly not much sentenmental value. You will feel a sense of relief and don't feel bad-sounds like you have tried and are willing to work.

(quoted from post at 07:44:44 01/04/12) The only thing I can think of is to consult an attorney. I've seen a lot on the news lately about banks overstepping the law regarding foreclosures. It might buy you a little more time.

Click to expand...

There was something on cnn or something about some military (reservist) families being taken for a ride and just the other day about banks shovin it to blacks and other minorities about loans, rates, and payments that got caught and had to pay folks a whole bunch of money.....

I wish you the best of luck, but you should (after getting qualified legal advice) decide to stick it out or walk away with no regrets... You gotta know if you did your best, and if you are satisfied.... make the move.....
A trip to the Army Recruiter may be a blessing for you.......

Good Luck...

You got your first pay check the 30th, you should have cut a check for a payment on that day. Not just paperwork required, but a check and sub out of your payment receipt book. That would have have thrown a monkey wrench into the forclosure process. When you send them another say- next week, they would have just went away. Telling them you now have a job, and not show them money, doesn't help you at all, it probably hurt. If you actually can not make a payment soon, it is probably too late.

I will give you the same advise I gave my son. Walk away, you can not afford the place right now. You will be surprised how quickly things change when you don't have that big "rock" to drag. Many people have started over you won't be the first or the last. Good luck, there will be a next time.

Ken there are many more questions here How far behind are you? What is the value of the home? If it is upside down you may have to walk. BUT they can come after your wages and possesions you may have to go bankrupt. One trick was for them to write of a loss say $100 g and send you a 1099 that will ruin your income tax fast!!!! Yes you need an attorny.

I appreciate all of the replies that I have gotten so far. I also forgot to mention that I am finishing my 3rd year in college come this spring (with a 4.0 GPA) so I am not BS'ing around when it comes to hard work. I love to work hard, have always used that as a basis of my life but it seems as though the last couple years have been a struggle. The one thing I have remained focused on is staying in school and maintaining my good grades.

I have left multiple messages with my home preservation specialist over the last 36 hours to return my calls. Hopefully I will hear from him. If not, I guess my only route is to walk away. Finding a new place to live may be the most challenging part overall. Unfortunately there are millions in my situation. Many who are working the system and many who are trying their damndest to stay in their homes....

Ken:
Sorry for your situation hope it works out for you.
Jocco: I have neighbors, family and friends that played the refinance game, sometimes 2 times a year
bought boats, campers, cars, trucks,furniture, vacations etc.... that 1099 is no trick they took money.
Sean

Oh no i meant if you owe 200 g and house forclose and sells for 100g Bank sends yoy 1099 for 100g debt forgiveness so you pay taxes on 100g. (you probably never saw any money) My terminoligy/description of it is not up to par.

The value of the home has dropped significantly in the past 5 years I have owned it. When I bought it, it was a foreclosure and now it is worth (according to my assessed property taxes for the year 2012) about half of what I paid for it in February 2007. So it is definitely upside down as far as what I owe on the property. There are no second mortgages that I have, and have never refinanced. The only other debt I have is school loans and my credit card (which unfortunately is higher than it should be due to the battle of finding a job). I cannot afford to hire an attorney, as I just got my first paycheck from the MN DOC, and have spent most on my utilities and paying the credit card bill. The mortgage company (Wells Fargo) put me on a 90-day moratorium in June 2011, which expired in October. I have not made a payment to them since June (because funds would not allow due to the low paying part time job I had obtained during that time).

You need to talk to a lawyer- should be able to get a consult for 50 bucks, or free (I do foreclosure consults for free), or go through Legal Aid in your community. Make sure its a real estate attorney.

Too many unanswered questions in your post to give legal advice, but given your age, your prospects, and the fact that its only worth half of what you paid, you probably should walk.

Is it a judicial (lawsuit) foreclosure, or a non-judicial (just paperwork posted on the door)? If its non-judicial, they get the house, and nothing else. If its judicial, they can come after you for a deficiency judgment, which you would have to wipe out in a bankruptcy. Many in your position resist bankruptcy because it will ruin your credit. The bad news is, because of the delinquencies, your credit is already shot, and bankruptcy probably wouldn't have much further effect.

Several posters indicate you would have to pay income tax on debt foregiveness. Generally not true- 2009 statute made an exception for owner- occupied residences. There's always been an exception if you're insolvent (which you probably are, if you're underwater on your house), in banktruptcy, etc.

See why you need to have a lawyer look at it?

Wells Fargo means things are not going to go in your favor no matter what. I have never had any good dealings with that bank even in good times. As a contractor building houses for people with constructions loans through them, you would think I was the guy buying the house for all the things they wanted of me. I tell people now if they use WF I will add another $1000 onto the cost of the home just for the hassles they put me through. Again that was in good times. When things started going bad, they cut of loans to contractors and business's that had been doing business with them for many years. As to your situation, how much money did you put down when you bought it? That is the amount you are basically losing on the deal. You lived in it since June rent free and the other payments you made can be considered as rent payments. Most of the payment you made went towards the interest on the loan so your principle amount didn't go down much in only 5 years. Your actual monetary loss probably isn't that great unless you had a large downpayment.

What a great time to have a rich uncle on your side. But , I guess you've already thought of that one.

You've got a couple of choices. One is to walk away. That's easy.

Another is to get a good RE lawyer. If the place is worth that much to you, and you're stubborn enough, things can work out. One trick is to declare bankruptcy, do a re-organization and that will stave off the wolves for a short period. Then, work your a$$ off and get the payments up as soon as you can. This can be tough, but it can be done. Talk to the local branch of your bank, to the manager. Big thing is to be honest, and realistic. They may be able to help you, and may be able to help you reorganize the payment schedule somewhat until you can catch up. It won't be easy, but can be done. The banks have started to wake up some, and are sitting on a rash of houses and money that is sitting and not doing anything. Many are finding out that it's easier to try to help out a homeowner, and keeping money rolling rather than foreclosing and eating money to maintain the property and pay the taxes until they can resell it, and that usually at a loss.

So it's kind of your choice. If you feel it is worth fighting for, nothing beats a try but a failure. No matter what you do, your credit will take a hit, at least for a few years. But you will come out better and stronger if you choose to fight now. Either way, you'll feel better. You fight, and feel like you have accomplished something, or you let it go, and get rid of the burden. Neither is easy. Good luck in whatever you do.

Tax assessors appraisal is NOT the true appraisal of a homes value.It can be as much as 90% or as little as 55% of the true value of the house. Find out from a R.E. Agent who is a friend what your true value is. Or call a RE agency, tell them you are interested in selling and they will be there quick to ge t the listing, and give you a realisitic price.

Lots of sherrifs sales going on. Many are just walking away. I don't know why the banks can't work with anyone ?

I got some goofy USDA Rural development loan. Intrest is high at 7% but it gets a subsidy based on your income. When I got laid off I just had to tell them and refill out papers and got reduced payments. Likely I will get shafted in the end , but right now it is about equal to renting price wise.

Maybe you could check into one of these ? and rebuy your place at the sale.

Been in that situation myself, mine included a divorce also. Go get an attorney. I know you say you cant afford to but you mentioned paying on a credit card, pay the atty with the card. You NEED a lawyer on your side.

Mike i want to thank you for chiming in here to help this guy yes it is a deep subject and i had seen the debt forgivness tax thing before but you are up on it more than me. Most of what you said seems 100% Most forclosure around here the person is to far behind to salvage Or the upside down value is to great.

I don't want to sound overly cold hearted here but . . . When you signed a mortgage, it was promise to pay or you'd give up the property. I think the many schemes to hang on to something a person cannot afford do more damage then good.

When I was 20, buying a house was pretty much unheard of unless the youth was unusual and had a 10% -20% down-payment. I began the process of buying my first house for $12,000 and had to give a $3000 down-payment along with a 10 year mortgage at 14% interest. If I'd lost my job a year later - I would of had some equity, could of sold it, and at least broke even (or close).

You mention you were 20 when you "bought" your first home. Actually you didn't buy it. You took a mortgage and promised to pay for it eventually and THEN you'd own it. Your name may be on the deed and tax bill, but the mortgage holder is basically the owner.

Getting ejected from where you live is no fun regardless if you have a mortgage payment or rent payment - but if you did not keep up your end of the bargain - seems the bank ought to get back IF they want it.

The other problem is that there is no rhyme or reason to the restructuring thing- I've seen some that are excellent- writing down the loan amount, drastically lower interest rate and payments, etc.- and some other equally qualified applicant gets squat- maybe recapitalizing the interest, slight drop in payments, but still way underwater.

I don't think we're going to see the end of the foreclosure problem any time soon- just too much debt out there, and only a job lay-off away from going in the tank.

LJ i don't disagree with what you say but people bought a home at $150g and its now worth $75g Thats not there faault in most cases and there i no way out! This economic collaps was not the individuals fault either. And last i too don't understand why the banks won't work a little more with people.

I sent you an email.. evidently didn't go through

I dunno if it's too late or not but here is a recommended link from the FTC that may be able to help.
Part of letters from a lawsuit towards a false promising debt relief and the link recommended.



We are advised by the Federal Trade Commission that there are governmental and other nonprofit agencies that American individuals and families can turn to when they are facing foreclosure, starting with www.MakingHomeAffordable.gov and the Homeowner's HOPE Hotline at 1-888-995-HOPE for free foreclosure counseling assistance.

When it comes to value - you take a chance on anything you buy - IF value matters to you. If you are buying a house to use as a home to live in - and you can truly afford it - what difference does it make when market value goes down? I can live just as well in my home - regardless if the value doubles or gets cut in half.

If my home's value dropped down from 150K to 75K - I'd be happy about it - as long as my taxes went down with it.

Now - if you're buying a house as a financial investment and NOT to live in - well - you'd better do your research first. Anybody that assumes a house worth 200K today must be worth that much or more next year is a bit foolish.

Sorry but I guess we don't agree about the "fault" sentiments.

Simple math - don't buy high and chances are the property won't go real low.

I've bought around two dozen houses in my life. I have four right now. One to live in, and the rest as investments. I always buy "distressed" foreclosed and bank-owned homes. I then fix them up myself and if something goes wrong - I can sell. I've yet to see any drop in half in value during any economic times. I bought a house this spring for $10K in Michigan. Last owner three years ago had it mortgaged for 90K. Six years ago I bought a house, shop, and 5 acres for 32K. The person who walked away from the mortgage owed 140K. Both those "owners" who lost the properties got them with no down payments which is silly. For what I paid, I don't think I can lose much regardless of what the economy does. And if I do? I am 100% to blame.

If somebody has money in the bank and wants to buy a nice house when prices are at a high peak - fine. It's their money to lose if something goes wrong. But - to do the same with no money saved, with a mortgage, and often little to no down payment -and complain about the banks later? I don't buy it.

From what you are telling is that theyare being A$$ holes =NOWS THE TIME TO TURN THE TABLES AROUND NOW !!! FIND THE DIRTYEST LAWYER YOU CAN FIND AND GET HELP NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even If you luse you might Head off other Problems that are after Fall out From a sale like that.There are Lawyers Out There Just WAITING for a Chance at These Bankers.

You make it sound as if the "bankers" are guilty of crimes. Name me a bank that has forced anyone to borrow their money or sign a mortgage.

A mortgage is a legal contract with obligations for both parties involved. It MUST be entered into freely or is voidable.

Which party did not meet their obligation? Mortgagor or mortgagee?

And - you think a person who already has not met his contractual obligations to make payments - should now pay money to a lawyer?

I'm just trying to follow your reasoning. Maybe the person now needs to borrow money from an evil banker - to pay an upstanding lawyer - to go after another evil banker?

One more hope that you can get some legal advice--much depends upon whether your loan kept local and sold to an investor (ins co, pension fund) as a whole (not securitised: sliced/diced into myriad Wall St. securities for investors).
For securitised problems there're many websites on mortgage frauds (like nakedcapitalism, 4closurefraud and patrick.net, but there're lots others).
LJD: You might read up a little on mortgage fraud; it really does exist, from original inception to and including "mediation" "efforts", altho the Feds can't seem to see any, except at the lowest levels.
Mike(WA): My undestanding is that for a purchase money mortgage/TD in a non-recourse state (lender gets house back and that's all) the owner loses that protection if there's been a refinance.

I'm well read on the subject. I have kept up with what has been called "fraud." Very few cases are truly legal fraud in reality, and much is not. I'd be a fool not to keep up best I can since much of my present income is from buying foreclosed homes that have been passed from bank to bank. All I've bought were not only foreclosed on, they were also abandoned and trashed. I give the banks involved credit for not having some of these people arrested.

Point me towards ONE verified case where a honest buyer was lied to - signed a contract based on false information - and the contract was held up as valid anyway.

Or - show me one person who was forced to take a mortgage and go in hock. Again, if it really happened the contract would be voided.

Or - show me on situation where a person signed on to a mortgage, the bank reneged on their written legal obligations, and the buyer is the one is deep water.

The real problem is way too many people have taken mortgages they could not really afford and never should of qualified for to start with. Anybody who buys a house should do their own research on sales-history over time and tax implications. Also ought to have a substantial down payment, assets and some viable means to keep the house in good shape. Or better yet, fix it up as they live in it. Also ought to have a back-up plan in mind in case the money earner gets hurt or loses employment due to any causes. We all know these things CAN happen. That's why only adults can enter into mortgage contracts - but it seems now many want to default and be treated like minors.

So OK. With some of the reasoning I see here - I guess if you don't lock your house - and someone breaks in and steals your stuff -it's YOUR fault for not locking it.

In this case - the banks did not "lock their houses" because they gave out mortgages to people who should NOT have gotten them. Much of that was due to pressure from the US Government.

its tough,ive been there myownself years ago.But you have to remember it sounds like your dealing with a bank.And they are actually kind of limited on what the can do, even if they want to. Its simply not their money to play with,its the folks who have their savings there.Its kind of like if they gave out loans to everyone and only helped the folks they like someone would wind up owning the whole county.Sounds like they have tried to work with you for a while though. Its sad to say ,but you may be better off letting it go. might be best for you regroup and try again later.As long as your struggling,even though your trying to do right, its more of a millstone around your neck than anything (financially wise anyway).I kind of hold the idea that for a lot of folks homeownership is more of a liability than an asset anyway.

What you say is the truth, but my circumstance started with a false information I was going to close the next month an a deal that was proposed getting me a fixed rate, with a bit of extra cash to fix some things that still need attention.

They were confident enough that I was ask to send closing costs during a three month prior period to closing thus putting me behind in my Mortgage and Holders were trying to get their payment.

Only when I found my new folks were shut down by the FTC did I realize I was spoofed These folks were taking my money with no intentions of helping.

I'm still waiting for my money back.. I have a good chance as I was one of the ones to report them prior them being shut down to my Atty Gen.

Here is the
Copy of Court Records

JD,I will agree with you on the contract thing and money owed,but will disagree on several of your other points.During the farm thing of the1980s,a lot of banks and PCAs foreclosed or took money from peoples accounts for debts-loans that were not due yet or in arrears because the money was there and they were scared it might not be there when the payment was due forcing some into bankrupicy.As far as you saying,never seeing a property lose half its value,the farm where I live(own),from 1885 until 1932 or 3,it sold 4 times at prices From $67.00 to $2,000 Per Acre(two highs and two lows).

Heres the reason banks wont carry you .they CANT!!its not LEGAL!!! And they have to face a bank examination every thirty days regular as clockwork.Heres the deal, lets say you and i have our life savings in the same bank as he got his home loan at. When he signs the papers on that home ,the bank simply takes yours and my money and pays off the builder/developer. The bank didnt give him its money it gave him yours and my money! They did this so that they can make money for them,you, and i, if he pays his mortgage. Trouble is if he doesnt pay,who loses? Bank loses the money that they would have made on intrest on that note,but you and i lose our life savings!If we have it there in cds at a fixed rate they have to make money on it or they go broke. They simply cant let him float or relieve him of dept because they have given away our money,and that would be just like me taking your billfold and going down and buying a new car with your money.Its simply stealing.So they take a risk,but they also MUST mitigate those risks.They do this by either reselling that house,or selling the note at a loss.and making up the difference to you and I on other loans. Its not the banks fault in any way.Heres the deal ,its setup this way for a reason. suppose i were a good freind with the banker,and he didnt care for you,if they didnt have to do this the banker could simply when you were one day late on a payment foreclose and resell that house to me.I may not ever make a payment and he simply overlooks it because hes my fishing buddy.Who winds up owning everything?I do ,i look like im worth a jillion bucks on paper and guess what,ive done it all on your money!sounds crazy doesnt it ? but it was common not too long ago,thats why your insured through fdic!before that you could simply walk up to the bank,ask for your money and have them simply say "sorry charlie ,we spent it"!

Spend the money and talk to a lawyer who specializes in real estate!

I'm with LJD on this one guys. I have yet to meet anyone who can claim that someone be it a bank or any other lending agency FORCED them to sign for a loan or mortgage. Sorry it just don't happen. People do make mistakes and then have to live and hopefully learn from them. Did the mortgage companies push people to buy? Yes! But the decision to buy was in the end the buyers. Did the mortgage companies in [u:3b6649dc8c]some[/u:3b6649dc8c] cases lie? Sure they did. Did the buyer have to sign....NO. DID OUR POLITICAL LEADERS HAVE TO DERGULATED THE BANKING INDUSTRY LIKE THEY DID????? HECK NO, but the did for short term political gain. Reagan did some to try to get people spending money. Bush carried it a bit further for the same reason.........but slick Wille is the one who put the lid on the coffin and nailed it shut! That turned the lenders free and they went wild!

I know a couple, distant relations, who sold a resort and bought a farm. Not with the money from the resort sale, they blew that! Now they have lost the farm! And tried to get the family involved in saving it for them! It happens all the time. I see people all the time who have gotten themselves in way too deep with a home, 2 cars, 2 4 wheelers, 2 jetski and 2 snomobile payment plan. My own sis in law and her charming hubby took a 2nd mortgage on their home to finance a vacation with friends to Hawaii last year. What were they thinking????

Rick

In Washington, its up to the lender how he wants to proceed, regardless of "purchase money" vs. "non-purchase money"- he can foreclose through the courts (which virtually nobody does) and get a deficiency judgment, or non-judicially and be limited to return of the property as his only remedy.

I've often thought that the big lenders should retain somebody locally to look for other assets, before deciding which way to go- many borrowers back in the hey-day had other assets, so should have been foreclosed judicially with a deficiency judgment- but lenders apparently ignored that possibility, and forged onward with a non-judicial foreclosure. Seems to me that you might want to fork out 5 grand for a judicial foreclosure, if you're going to take a 100 grand bath on a non-judicial and the borrower has other assets.

Bought my place back in 94 and came really close to losing it back in 2010 when my work all but stopped completely. Having been married for a year or so at the time my wife and I had just refinanced with a credit union she was a member of, about 6 months before things went completely bust. Had it not been for that, and the incrediably low rate we got, plus the fact that they were really good working with us on the whole matter ((since they don't sell out their loans and didn't want another empty house just setting there costing them money)) it might have been a different story. I also think another big influence to work with us came when I made them the guarantee that if they worked with me thdy would get paid but if they didn't I'd gladly walk away from the place so fast it would make their heads spin. If I did that I told them they could handle the work the place needs to finish the inside that they knew needed done when they made the loan (probably $40,000 to hire a contactor given that what I had done so far cost me nearly $10,000 doing it myself))), hire a crane and a couple of trucks to move the customers broke down equipment setting outside my shop ((that I'm waiting to get paid for)), etc,etc. I don't think they had ever had anyone that didn't seem to be afraid of them and 'what they could do', if they wanted to, and simply laid the facts on the line for them and told them exactly what they would be doing to themselves if they did not work with me. Regardless of the reason they agreed to work with us and when things started getting better they 'extended the loan' at the end the months we were behind which 'brought the payments current' and made things all better.

That said in dealings with them they were able to turn us onto some Federal programs designed to help people in the same situation your in. Wish I could remember what they were called but that's been over two years ago now. I do remember that as part of all that I went to several 'classes' telling us what we needed to do. One of the first things is GET A LAWYER, FAST. They might cost a bit but they know all of the tricks that will allow you to stay in the house wether you pay for it or not. (They said there were people living in their house for over a year without making any payments at all.) Too I remember something said about if you were making payments they could only do so much and if they refused a payment it could also change things in your favor in some cases.

In your case it sounds like things have turned around for you but the lender doesn't seem to care and although that is their right, as others have stated , it's still wrong to do anybody like that in my opinion.

So quit wasting time talking to people on here, sit down tomorrow and call your local Family services center, explain your situation and ask them what to do or who to call, and at least call several lawyers and get a free consultation or three and take things from there. Like I said, based on what I was told in several of the classes there are ways to stay in the house and get things worked out. I've been told that by several different places, it's just a mattert of finding someone that knows the ins and outs of the whole deal to help you.
GOOD LUCK.

May not want to hear this, but if you left school, could you make more money??? School will always be there if you leave correctly and at the right time. I had to work 84 hours a week when I was in apprentice school(Henry ford trade school.) I know you got it hard but look at all possibilities. Does your wife work? Can she somehow earn more? Trying not to be mean but helpful. Not shock and awe. Good Luck

I have read all of the comments below. Some of them surprise me. In other forums we talk about helping neighbors and friends when they hit a rough spot, i.e., tractor(s) down and cattle need fed, electrical problems in wiring in house, advice on fixing tractor or implements...

We do it because we want to and it helps someone.

Now, we have a guy who has hit a rough spot in his life and some on here say "hey, you signed the loan papers and noboby forced you to. So, you have to give up you house/property.

The house sits empty for quiet some time until the bank can unload it, if at all. Usually at a lot less than was loaned for it. Why can"t the bank say...Let us work with you so you can keep your house and we will still get paid when your prospects pick back up. Obviously, here is a guy willing to try to pay his mortgage but the bank is not willing to accommodate, at least until this economy gets better.

Why won"t the bank work with him, instead of against him?

You are commenting on things I did not say.

I did not say that property NEVER loses half its market value - from one time to another. But true market value is established by trends over time - not high points in a bubble.

This is my quote from the other post . . . - "I always buy "distressed" foreclosed and bank-owned homes. I then fix them up myself and if something goes wrong - I can sell. I've yet to see any drop in half in value during any economic times."

Note I'm talking about buying low to start with and NEVER buying prime properties, especially at high-price market times. And I stand by my statement. None I've bought like this have dropped severly in value at any economic time.

As to your comments about 80s farm loans? It has nothing to do with bank-financed home mortgages.

I cannot comment on the original poster's problems specifically since he provided very few facts other then he signed the mortgage when he was 20 and defaulted on his payments later. He may of gotten in a mess that was beyond his control and could not be reasonably anticipated. Or maybe it's the opposite.

Did he provide a substantial down payment? What was the condition of the house? What was his original plan and backup plan for upkeep, taxes, mortgage payment if he got hurt of lost his job, etc.? What went wrong with his plan? Note that his GPA in college has no bearing here. It has little bearing on real life or contractual obligations.

To label blindly bailing someone out when the facts are not known is not an act of compassion. Sometimes you are just enabling someone that did something dumb. Sometimes we need to take our knocks, learn a lesson and move on. Many young and adult people rent and manage to survive just fine.

This is all starting to sound too much like external_link's whining about "fair share."

LJD says..."To label blindly bailing someone out when the facts are not known is not an act of compassion."

But, here you admit that the facts are not known. Still, you want to condemn him and call him "dumb".

He said he would prefer to pay it back and keep his house. But the bank will not work with him.

Ken, just reread the threads below and I see one of your major mistakes. You state you got your first check and spent part of the money to pay on your credit card. That's the wrong thing to do. Like the man at the bank basically told me "I own your house, you have to take care of me first.", and he was right. Because we did that we both still have the house and also have a banker that has told us if we need anything to come see him because he knows by our actions throughout the whole deal where our priorities are and will never doubt our sincerity to repay any loan they make to us.

That said, you sound alot like me in that you seem like your conscientious about paying your debts and don't like being put in the position you were put in. What you have to remember is that you are now dealing with a company with no conscience and you have to become the same way. Regardless of what happens, forclosure, etc your credit is SHOT. That being the case your better off with it being shot over money owed to the card companies and living in a house rather than due to losing a house you no longer live in and coming out with absolutely nothing. Being faced with the same situatuion myself I chose the house over the card companies. I had NO debit other than a motrgage until I got married and caught up in a custody battle over my 4 year old step daughtery. My wife and I had to lay out alot of money for lawyers to handle a case brought against my her ((LONG stort short, but--Custody battle between her and the biological father who had completely denied the child from birth and through the insuing 4 years, who had never seen or had any contact with her, his choice, yet filed for FULL custody and was asked to be paid support to be paid to him)))Between the economy and the lawyers alot was put on cards to get us through. I had no problem paying until things hit rock bottom and I had to make choices as to who got paid and who didn't. Now the card companies are after me hard to get their money. I've told them they'll get their money just as soon as I've got it in my hand and have tried to reach an agreement with them but they want guarantees I can't make and I've told them as much. Heck I even offered them the amount owed in 'real property' and told them to have the yard sale with the stuff like one smart a$$ that called recommended I do. In the end all they can do is get a judgment against me with a life of 10 years, and that's it. Basically they can't really take anything from me of any value to cover what they want both because of NC laws and also because I don't own anything worth the amount owed that they can lay a hand on, judgment or not. In the end they will just have to do without until I get back on my feet and can pay off my debt to them, because taking care of my family comes first. I've gotten to the point that the way I see it as I owe the money the people on the phones calling me will have a job also..so I'm doing my part to prevent unemployeement. Not the way I like to see things but it's better than the alternative.

I really HATE having to look at things this way but the alternative would be for me and my family to be out on the street after me paying on a house for nearly 18 years. Too my viewpoint now sure beats the alternative I went though when this whole mess began of me being up all night, and then barely functional the next day, due to worrying about the whole mess and letting it really get to me. Basically I figured out i just had to say screw the card companies, I'm gonna pay the man that owns the roof over my head, and take things as they come from that point. As a result this past year hasn't been the greatest I've ever had but it was alot better than '09 and '10 except for still having card companies calling wanting me to guarantee them several hundred dollars a month instead of any I have left over after the necesities like mortgage, power, and food are paid for.

All that said, as bad as you will probably feel doing it you have to lose your conscience and become just as ruthless as those who want 'your house'. From there, really think about what is the most inportant thing to you and put all your money in that direction. In the end the bank can be more of a friend to you than a card company will ever be. Once again GOOD LUCK.

I am not married, and 80-90% of my classes have been online. Like I have been stating, I have been jumping from job to job trying to find suitable employment. When I lost the job I was at for 5 years I was given NO notice. Matter of fact, the manager I was car pooling with to work came to pick me up from work and informed me in my driveway that I was not going with him to work. Some may say I am dumb, some may be right. May I have made a mistake?? Maybe. At the time my parents had lost their house, then the house they had purchased after, then the house they were renting after that. Now both are divorced, renting from people, and have zero in their bank accounts. I was left to fend for myself, so I briefly moved into my (at the time) girlfriends parents. Fell upon this place to call my own and could afford the payments so I pursued it. I am sorry if this seems like a rant, but I feel somewhat attacked in a few of these posts. Maybe I should feel that way. My point is I am trying to do everything I can to keep it. Not trying to be irresponsible....

Ken, don't know how this is going to turn out for you, but in the long haul, it ain't no big thing. You've got something a lot of us would like to have----youth. With youth, good health and a positive attitude you can get past any problem. I've started over several times in several places. Walked away from lots of "stuff", and lost a few small fortunes. Hang tough; this is just one of many of life's speed bumps.

I understand your reasoning, and you are right... Not a single person besides me forced me to make the signature on the paper.. However, My property values between last year and this year ALONE have dropped 14%. I have the property tax statement in my file cabinet to prove it. In the last five years my property is worth HALF of what I paid for it, and I bought it foreclosed, $30,000+ under market value. I tried to refinance. I tried once before to do mortgage modification. I have talked to local Wells Fargo mortgage offices, to specialists inside WF, and also have been going through a second round of attempting loan modification since last June. I have been working as much, wherever, and whenever I could. I have been to Temp agencies multiple times over the course of the last 2.5 years and not once have I received a call from them stating that they have work for me. Been part of the Dislocated Workers program through the county. Have had well over 50 interviews with very little call backs. Have sold nearly everything with monetary value. Even most of my furniture, and other things (kitchen ware, etc.) have been given to me.

I'm not sure how you feel about me.. And I did not want to start some political/societal war over asking for some advice. None of this really has any bearing on me as a person, but I just feel that I can at least ask for advice from many people whom I look up to in the world. I have been a part of this site since 1997/1998 and will continue to be a part. Thanks for all the help.

-Ken

LJD: Just one??
Try the David J Stern Law Firm (Florida) which went up, and came down, like Herman Cain, only it took longer.

OK I see what you are getting at.

Say you (the bank) paid 50K for the house with signing papers to make a monthly payment to repay that 50K plus interest. It matters little that the house is now worth 25K, you still signed for 50K. The bank is not going to write off 25K just because the value of the house has gone down. They may work with the interest rate to keep from having to forclose but they are not going to be able to work on the pricnipal much if at all. That wasn't their money, that was money that belongs to the depositors.

I don't know all the ends and outs of MN repo laws but they are kinda interesting. You really need to talk to a RE Lawyer. From what little I know of the laws you would have been far better off to have moved out the first month you couldn't make a payment and given the keys to the banker.

Another thing to look at is who paid the taxes and insurance on your place when you couldn't make the payments? Some mortgages include insurance and taxes in the payments. If yours was set up like that your banker paid taxes and insurance even while you were not making payments.

Rick

Why not take the time to read exactly what I stated instead of making things up as you go along. I did not call any one person "dumb." I referred to a generic "someone" and made it clear I did not have enough facts to comment one way or the other with the guy that posted.

I don't care if you read my posts or not - but if you want to complain about them - please stick to something I actually said.

This has nothing to do with how I feel about you. I don't know you nor do I know much of the details in your situation. From the few facts I am privy to - if it was me and I was young - I'd be glad to get the heck out of the deal. You say you bought at $30K below market value? How much was the total price? Heck, you can buy a small house for $10K that's livable, and an even nicer one for $30K. Probably not in the area of your choice though. There are many rural to semi-rural properties going cheap that will hold their values - and at the same times - urban properties are gettting bull-dozed (like old Detroit).

I'm in my late 60s and I've had one mortgage in my life and one car loan in my life. Also raised four kids and am working on a fifth. After having one mortgage and one car loan in the 70s, I figured I never wanted to borrow money again and I never have. To make something clear, I've never been a high-earner - at least not as anyone's employee. My wife was laid off from her job three years ago - so we have little income from conventional paychecks. 15 years ago I broke my neck and both legs and had to cash in all my savings to live off it. I couldn't work for two years. So yeah, stuff happens. We survived because we had no debts - but it was difficult. Certainly no government agency came to help us.

In brief, my wife and I have been very careful with our own money. Yet - our tax dollars are being taken to support people with failed mortgages - many of whom were NOT careful. Yes some were dilligent and got stuck in a hole, but the bulk of them were careless and other tax-payers should not be bailing them out. There is a growing mentality in this country of not being responsible for our own actions.

As to property values falling by 50% in one year? That is extremely rare to happen without prior warning signs. True market values are slow trends over time - not sporadic highs and lows.
I do two Websites for real-estate companies and keep a close eye on sales-trends. It still amazes me when people buy homes in peak markets for "investments."

Again, I know little about your particular situation. If you saved up a substantial down payment and have it all invested in a house - then I can see trying to hang on within reason.

Owning a house is a lot of work. Especially a "fixer-upper." I can't imagine a person with limited funds doing it unless he/she does most-to-all their own work. I rehab houses but do all my own masonry, plumbing, wiring, dirt moving, roofing, etc. I can't imagine trying to make mortgage payments, tax payments, home insurance payments, and then rely on contractors to fix every problem.

I'll try to make clear one more time - since a few posters chose to misread and complain. I do not know much about your specific situation and I'm not accusing you personally of anything.

I'm also well aware of how difficult dealing with banks can be - especially with secondary mortgage holders. That does not mean they are committing fraud though as many claim.

Last year, a guy near me asked if I was interested in buying his home. It was being foreclosed on and he knew I liked his woods and fields. He had a 90K mortgage and owed back taxes for two years ($6000 worth). He just wanted out, i.e. no plans or desire to try keep the house. So he gave me the bank phone number. It was a bank in California (I'm in New York). I asked for a payout quote and they refused to give me one. I was willing to pay $40K cash for the house. A few months later - that bank let the house get taken by the county for back taxes. I.e. the bank sold it for $6000 !! Does that make any sense? NOT to me. But it's not fraud either. I offered $40K and they sold it to the county for $6K. Later at the county tax sale it sold for $21K.

If current market values are way down where your house is - the bank ought to be glad to have a person willing to maintain it and make payments (like you,I assume). But if they chose NOT to, it should be their option without contest. I assume it's all in the contract that was signed. Trying to force them to do otherwise by using lawyers is - in my opinion - immoral. They stuck to their end of the deal, and from what you've stated - you did not. You are financially and emotionally involved. The bank doesn't have the emotional attachment and may not even do what seems to make financial sense. But, it IS their right.

I may be wrong, but if you send them payment, even now, and they accept it (cash the check) that should stop the process or at least delay while everything is ironed out.

Sorry....I did not mean to offend you. Please accept my apologies.

(quoted from post at 22:36:56 01/04/12)I am sorry if this seems like a rant, but I feel somewhat attacked in a few of these posts. Maybe I should feel that way. My point is I am trying to do everything I can to keep it. Not trying to be irresponsible....

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You haven't done anything different than a whole lot of other people. It's a tough deal.

Most lawyers, of any kind, are pretty much clueless about this and promise what they can't deliver. Been there. Lost my house Nov 16 2010. Just wasted more money.

Check your contract for mortgage insurance.

If you have it, then two things. One, that bank will never ever work with you. Period. Your failure is their win. Two, you will not hear from them after the dust settles. End of story.

As said before, your credit is already plagued. Seven years goes by faster than you think.

I understand everything you are saying, and totally agree. I did not hold up my end of the deal to repay what was owed. I do not want government assistance, and my thinking is as follows; Much like refinancing, since I am locked at a 7% interest rate, what is the reason that they cannot restructure or 'modify' my loan with respect to the interest rate - and wrap the current backpayments and penalties onto the backside of the loan. This right here will not affect the amount that they are repaid with regards to principal, only what they are making off of me in interest. Since they are handing out loans at 4% right now, why not restructure my loan to a lower rate and continue to make money and allow me to stay in the home. Seems like my way of thinking is pretty straight forward, but again as you say, they hold the contract in their favor. I am just trying to abide by what it is they ask for throughout the process.