Question about the cost of raising corn

oldtanker · Jan 13, 2012

I have a friend who has about 160 acres of tillable land. It's in CRP now but he has it in his mind that he's going to make a killing raising corn. The soil is pretty sandy and was last plowed more than 30 years ago. Now he has no equipment, none, NADA, zip.... zero.....he's thinking that he can buy an old AC WD45, plow, disk, planter and cultivator, make 200 BPA and be in the clover. He figures that it will cost him about 150 an acre to plant. His plan includes hiring someone to combine it. He has no storage and no means of hauling it anywhere. He figures that becasue the land has been idle so long he will not need to put in any fertlizer. This is in west central MN. Just how sandy, he has another 40 acres that's so bad that if it's tilled and dry it drifts a little. The 160 acre chunk is a bit better than that but not much.

What do you guys think? No wrong anserws here, I know he's going to ask me again soon and I'd like to be able to give him better info than I have. If I ask any of the local farmers here I know they are all going to be over there trying to rent the land.

The last time I know of any fertlizer being applied to that land was in the early 80's and the last time it had anything like manure was in the early 60's.

Thanks

Rick

oldtanker · Jan 13, 2012

I should add that I did tell him to do soil samples and finds out whats needed, his reply "it's been idle 30 years".

Rick

hd6g Tom · Jan 13, 2012

I just checked on doing this last week. Seed corn and 100.00 per acre. NH# at 80.00 per acre, spray at 50.00 per acre, It will take 80 bushels per acre to cover the cost of inputs, not including fuel. repairs etc. A WD45 is going to pull a 4 row planter, where can you find anyone with a 4 row corn head? He will need Nh3 put on, the grass will have sucked out all the nitrogen. 300.00 per acre not including any dry fert.

oldtanker · Jan 13, 2012

Yea thats about what I expected to hear, I was guessing from what I've been reading 325-350 per not counting fuel.....Thanks Tom.

BIL rented 40 that had been in CRP. Little better soil. First year got 110 BPA and this year about 150.

Again thanks

donjr · Jan 13, 2012

You're all in the ballpark, but better add about 2 tons of lime to that figure if you're gonna try to get that fertilizer into the plant and get the chemicals to work. His ph is probably pushing 5-5.5.

Mike (WA) · Jan 13, 2012

"It's been idle so long it won't need any fertilizer?"

Dream on. . .

Anonymous-0 · Jan 13, 2012

Wouldn't it be easier to just cash rent the ground to
an established farmer?

Anonymous-0 · Jan 13, 2012

I wasn't aware my bro-in-law had moved to Minn. He won't listen to anything, just hears what he wants to hear. Best advice you could give him is to refer him to a good bankruptcy attorney.

GordoSD · Jan 13, 2012

He'll get a nice crop of weeds, 30 bpa corn, won't be able to get it out and he won't gross 5000 dollars on his corn. His net will be minus about 5k, not counting the worthless equipment he bought.

Daryl in PA · Jan 13, 2012

Just wondering. What is CRP paying him per acre? My wife owns about 40 acres her parents enrolled about 5 years ago.

Mike Aylward · Jan 13, 2012

An education is about to happen right before your eyes. If the ground was enrolled in the CRP program it likely was not prime ground to start with. The ground likely hasn't changed with the exception of having more organic matter in it. With the ground being sandy the OM won't last long anyway and even less time if much tillage is done. If nothing has been done with the ground by now (such as fall mowing, etc.) there will be problems come spring as well. Your friend will be much smarter this time next year. Mike

ss55 · Jan 13, 2012

Most land-grand universities have an ag extension services that can provide detailed information and ball park estimates for most types of farming within their state. If the University of Minnesota or Saint Cloud State University don't have that information then Iowa State University or other neighboring universities would be good alternatives. It's a place for him to start if he's willing to look.

It's no too late for him to rent out his land, he will probably be money ahead if he does. You may not be doing him any favors by keeping good experienced farmers from knocking on his door with open checkbooks.

agman · Jan 13, 2012

Actually, he'd probably make pretty good money farming the crop insurance out of it until he runs his average down, then put it back into CRP for a better contract then he has now.

Nebraska Cowman · Jan 13, 2012

"Your friend will be much smarter this time next year"

Exactly what I was thinking.

James Williams · Jan 13, 2012

This is my opinion that no one has ever got rich on a small lot of corn,and I doubt if he will,But if people agrees that this is a bad idea,why is there people waiting to rent property like this?

jimmy

Paul from MI · Jan 13, 2012

Depends on how much he likes farming. If he's doing it to make some money, he'd better have a very good accountant, he won't make anything without more modern equipment. Try to find someone with a wide row corn head lately? If he soil tests his land he's going to have a bit of a shock when he gets the cost of needed fertilizer and lime. If he doesn't his yield will be in line with what's there, which won't be much.
Take it from a guy that's been farming a very few acres of crops for 38 years, because I love doing it, and want to do a good job of it, not necessarily to make money. You have to take advantage of technology to the extent your acreage will permit. Select your crop carefully, make sure you can get whatever you can't do yourself done cause a lot of suppliers won't mess with a few acres. Raising a decent crop of corn with old equipment just won't happen. There's other crops that can be successfully raised without the most modern equipment and only sacrifice a relatively small yield. But you still better love doing it, because the reward won't be in the bottom line.

oldtanker · Jan 13, 2012

OK what I mean about the local farmers is that they will tell him everything wrong with his plan without regrade to how good or bad it is in hopes that they can rent it. Most of the guys I know who would be interested in it would most likely do beans first. In fact I've tried to talk him into renting it to several different people that I know will do it right.

He wants to farm but other than baling when he was a kid he has no experience. I think if he really wants to do something he should fence it, buy some weaned claves in the spring and sell em as feeders in the fall. He snowbirds anyway and at least he may be able to make a few bucks doing that.

30 BPA??? Shows what I know. I thought he could maybe get 80-100.

He hasn't been on a tractor in a long time. I wonder if he really remembers what it's like. He knows where he can get a WD45 cheap enough but I don't think he's looked at finding the other stuff he would need. I've also tried to explain to him that come harvest around here the guys that will do custom work are going to make sure that thier crop is finished first. That could see his corn in the field over winter.

Anyway thanks guys for all the input. At least when he returns in Apr I can set down with him and better explain what the deal is.

Rick

JMS/.MN · Jan 13, 2012

I agree that the guy has no concept about what it takes to grow a crop, especially when it comes to input costs, and a legitimate expected yield, but your assumption that the land needs lime is invalid- you don"t know the land. Need for lime is determined by a soil test. I was raised in central MN, farmed here for now my 40th year, and never needed lime on any acre. Do some acres need it here? Yes, but all? No. And you know what his ph is? Must be psychic!

donjr · Jan 13, 2012

I guess that's part of the reason I don't know any farmers who are dumb and sucessful. The ones who farm like that went by the wayside years ago. And the ones who still 'farm' like that today are usually the 'Green Acres' types. Lotta spare cash and not many brains.

donjr · Jan 13, 2012

I guess that's part of the reason I don't know any farmers who are dumb and sucessful. The ones who farm like that went by the wayside years ago. And the ones who still 'farm' like that today are usually the 'Green Acres' types. Lotta spare cash and not many brains.

paul · Jan 13, 2012

> 30 BPA??? Shows what I know. I thought he could maybe get 80-100.

If he gets water & keeps the weeds down early, he could get 80 without fert. But on sand, that would take good farmer smarts.

Corn is a grass, so he is planting a grass on top of decades of grass. That doesn't go well for the fertility & soil diseases.

He's do better to put soybeans into it fertility wise, time wise, and cost wise.

Corn needs about a lb of N per bushel of corn you harvest. There might be 150 lbs in the soil from freshly plowed alfalfa; might be about 40 lbs in the ground from soybean stubble. There likely is very little available from the grass crop.

If I understand, this land is still grass? Spring plowed grown esp sand is just a disaster to try to raise corn on. He woulda needed to work it last fall. Now, the hay he works under will rob any N in the decomposing process, so he'll need to add an additional 40 lbs of N to deal with that situation. As well spring deep tillage will dry the soil too much if is sandy. Just a disaster for corn all the way around.

He could no-till into the grass to plant corn saving water & time, but you're looking at $30,000 investment in a planter that will get that job done this time of year. Notilling corn into a grass has soil disease issues that cost money to deal with.

I think the ground up that way is low in ph???? Not an issue here, but if his is, needs lime, and it takes 3 months or more for lime to work - with low ph, the acids hold on to the fertilizers in the ground and the plant roots can't pry it away - dumping fert on won't even help in low ph. If a problem, he's run out of time.

Sandy soil, his P & K can't be good either. Sure the grass has recycled by not being harvested, but in sand those items do flush away, bet a soil test shows low levels.

Corn sprouts, grows about 4 leaves, and sits there for quite some time, building it's root system. Doesn't loook like it's growing much. Then when the roots are built, it shoots up fast fast fast, and turns into a tall plant. The corn does _not_ like to have any weed pressure - shade - during that time it is building it's roots. Will mess up the root building phase and the corn loses 50 bu an acre right there. Most new farmers don't understand the timelyness of controlling weeds on corn. Garentee he'll look at the field and say, oh I'll deal with the weeds next weekend, looks good now.... And poof there went 50 bu an acre....

Seed corn is in very short supply, he likely will be able to buy corn seed, but the best numbers will be sold out. He'll get the leftover lower potential stuff this year.

He can make good money farming 160 acres, I would not discourage that. Showing up in April with aplan to get going this year with no prep, oh boy, yea he'll be a lot smarter a year from now, no richer, but a lot smarter.....

Bet he's closer to 30 bu than 200 bu.

Hope you keep us posted on how this all develops.

And, don't let him sell any of that corn to an ethanol plant!!!! (Just kidding.)

--->Paul

oldtanker · Jan 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 22:57:54 01/13/12) > 30 BPA??? Shows what I know. I thought he could maybe get 80-100.

If he gets water & keeps the weeds down early, he could get 80 without fert. But on sand, that would take good farmer smarts.

Corn is a grass, so he is planting a grass on top of decades of grass. That doesn't go well for the fertility & soil diseases.

He's do better to put soybeans into it fertility wise, time wise, and cost wise.

Corn needs about a lb of N per bushel of corn you harvest. There might be 150 lbs in the soil from freshly plowed alfalfa; might be about 40 lbs in the ground from soybean stubble. There likely is very little available from the grass crop.

If I understand, this land is still grass? Spring plowed grown esp sand is just a disaster to try to raise corn on. He woulda needed to work it last fall. Now, the hay he works under will rob any N in the decomposing process, so he'll need to add an additional 40 lbs of N to deal with that situation. As well spring deep tillage will dry the soil too much if is sandy. Just a disaster for corn all the way around.

He could no-till into the grass to plant corn saving water & time, but you're looking at $30,000 investment in a planter that will get that job done this time of year. Notilling corn into a grass has soil disease issues that cost money to deal with.

I think the ground up that way is low in ph???? Not an issue here, but if his is, needs lime, and it takes 3 months or more for lime to work - with low ph, the acids hold on to the fertilizers in the ground and the plant roots can't pry it away - dumping fert on won't even help in low ph. If a problem, he's run out of time.

Sandy soil, his P & K can't be good either. Sure the grass has recycled by not being harvested, but in sand those items do flush away, bet a soil test shows low levels.

Corn sprouts, grows about 4 leaves, and sits there for quite some time, building it's root system. Doesn't loook like it's growing much. Then when the roots are built, it shoots up fast fast fast, and turns into a tall plant. The corn does _not_ like to have any weed pressure - shade - during that time it is building it's roots. Will mess up the root building phase and the corn loses 50 bu an acre right there. Most new farmers don't understand the timelyness of controlling weeds on corn. Garentee he'll look at the field and say, oh I'll deal with the weeds next weekend, looks good now.... And poof there went 50 bu an acre....

Seed corn is in very short supply, he likely will be able to buy corn seed, but the best numbers will be sold out. He'll get the leftover lower potential stuff this year.

He can make good money farming 160 acres, I would not discourage that. Showing up in April with aplan to get going this year with no prep, oh boy, yea he'll be a lot smarter a year from now, no richer, but a lot smarter.....

Bet he's closer to 30 bu than 200 bu. Hope you keep us posted on how this all develops.

And, don't let him sell any of that corn to an ethanol plant!!!! (Just kidding.)

--->Paul

Paul the guy is very tight with his money so I kow he will not be willling to part with any to get a REAL CROP!

rICK

Question about the cost of raising corn

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