Amish Jailed Over Sign

Hi ,


Saw this on the news tonight , Amish jailed over triangler sign. This has been on the news before about them fining them over the sign and their refusal to use it . I understand both points of view , but they need to remember that this is 2012 ,not 1812 and we have 2000 lbs plus automobiles doing 55 mph plus down the road . In my opinion they should be more worried about safety , theirs and ours . But , I see both points .


Whizkid
Amish Put In Jail

I think they need to temper their pledge to "live simple lives" with reality- wouldn't it complicate their simple life pledge to have semi's hurtling into them at 60 MPH and obliterating them from the face of the earth?

From what I read their only problem with it is that it's "too flashy". In other words it does what it's supposed to do and draws attention to itself, unlike an all black buggy. Seems to me given that it is 2012 and not the 1800's there should be some sort of technology out there to manufacture something that will serve the same purpose but will reflect the light without being so 'flashy' all the time. Looks like there is a definate need...any engineers out there looking to make a million???

A new group just moved into the area new Armour SD. They are getting big time complaints from the city business men, who have stores on the main highway. Road apples everywhere, tracked into stores, flies, odor, etc.
They are going to pass city ordinance that they will have to use pooper scoopers or be fined.

Our Amish up here went through the same deal They ended up using one tail light (lantern) and black reflective tape. An Amish friend of mine told me if he had his way his buggy would have head and tail lights, flashing strobes all over it and the horse would be decked out in a reflective harness. But, that's not their way.

FYI- the Amish didn't really separate from mainstream culture until the 1930's/40's. It was the consolidated schools that did it. My friends mother was a gifted musician and was in the school orchestra right up till 8th grade. That was the end of it. Strange to us, makes sense to them. When they started consolidating the schools and creating middle and high schools the Amish felt that was the wrong way to go about things. Or so my friend tells me. That's why you never heard much about the Amish prior to WW2.

Saw an Amish buggy with a simple small red strobe light as used on bicycles and a red reflective flag on a long white pole. It was at night but I didn't see a SMV sign anywhere on the buggy. Seems like I was in Southern Indiana someplace. I could see both in plenty of time to slow down.

I remember seeing buggies with orange triangles or SMV signs as a kid in SE OH and later when stationed in Missouri..... Was in central OH (forget the town) and saw a buggie with lights & signals hooked up to a battery heading to the gas station to fill up fuel cans.....

Sure looks like lights or reflectors on the picture in the article.......

They went through in Michigan many years ago. If I remember correctly, it went all the way to the state Supreme Court and they won, don't have to use them if they don't want to.

Jail instead of paying fines is common amish practice for legal hassles. (Teasing Alert!) think of what jail time means- get up at 7:00 am instead of 5:00 am, get breakfast instead of make breakfast after milking cows, etc, indoor plumbing, nap time after lunch, TV for other miscreant motel guests means they get to watch without violating bishops rules--- and cost county about $50.00 a day to give them vacation. Can"t get rough by putting them in danger from other gangbanger inmates- 10 years back the old amishman put into overcrowded cell with couple wannabee gangbangers that said hated whites had a couple more appearances in court, grandjury after defending himself-- brokenbacked inmate and dead one with broken neck and some kind of genital mutilation not detailed (but can guess at) in cell in morning, bad surveilance tape and other inmates that didn"t see anything after Amishman attacked and pants partially pulled down by injured and dead. Civil detained for misdemeanor fines are not to be housed with convicted felons waiting transport to prison , and some lawyers are happy to sue state, county jailers, whoever as Pro Bono help for definite minority religious persecuted- especially after coroner rules died in commission of felony while in custody. That was in a Indiana training and procedure note for jailers- but may have been from Ohio. Wrestling 200 pound pigs and 3/400 pound calves almost daily means couple basicly hoofless and toothless humans are not a big problem. Most prosecutors worried about budget in Wisconsin prefer to dismiss charges after a one overnight in jail bill from sherrif for a Amish preacher keeping rest of drunk students and druggies up all night trying to save their souls--and aggravated jailer who figures he"s paid to stay up all night anyway so drunks can get cussed out as they deserve by unbathed farmer willing to teach bale tossing techniques with human bodies.

Looks like it may take a few years in jail to get their attention.

Death and injury means zero to them. "It's God's Will" if something happens. Plus there are so many kids in the family you don't miss a few.
We have one twit around here with a red triangle in just flat no luster paint on the left rear of his buggy.

They need to follow the laws of the United States just like everyone else. If they don't want to make their vehicle street legal, then they can get it off the street. They need to have minimum liability insurance as well, per state law, for when they cause accidents on the road. I doubt I can get away with driving my car without insurance, license, or tailights, just because I proclaim that my religion (Methodist) won't allow me to do that.

I have yet to figure out why its a safety issue for me not to have a SVS going down the road at 15MPH with a large tractor when bicycles go 5MPH
down the road and are small and narrow but they aren't required to have a sign.Politics not saftety rules the law.
These people that can't see an Amishman and a horse must run over kids on bikes all the time.

They use the triangler sign, taillights, headlights, flashinglights here in NW. Pa. SOME use reflective Tape also.

Fair enough, a horse drawn carriage is still a vehicle.Nothing to do with living a simple life, irrelevant,what straws they grasp.

This particular sect of Amish have separated from another order because they felt the order they were in was getting to "worldly" they are an extreme. They have asked to be allowed to use a gray or black reflective triangle but have been turned down. Amish have different sects, what is allowed in one might not be allowed in another, there is no national body. Some sects allow lights, triangles and strobes on the buggies, some do not, some allow phones and electricity in the barn or shop, some do not. The difference among the Amish and the states prevents a uniform solution. I disagree with the statement that they need to give up or compromise their beliefs to be allowed to use the roads. But the practice of their beliefs should not endanger me, so if they use subdued reflectors and were required to have lights on when a motor vehicle is required to my safety is reasonably preserved. What if someone decided that you couldn't exercise your right to keep and bear arms because you were on a public road?

Another point of view. Some will agree, others won't. It is to protect the motorist from himself.
If you are driving an import econo-box & hit the rear of a 30,000# tractor, you are dead, but the tractor driver barely feels the thump.
But if you are driving an 80,000# big rig & hit a bicycle, you don't feel the thump, but the cyclist who doesn't protect himself is dead.
WJ

Another point of view. Some will agree, others won't. It is to protect the motorist from himself.
If you are driving an import econo-box & hit the rear of a 30,000# tractor, you are dead, but the tractor driver barely feels the thump.
But if you are driving an 80,000# big rig & hit a bicycle, you don't feel the thump, but the cyclist who doesn't protect himself is dead.
WJ

SMV signs don't do any good anyway. I bet if you quizzed drivers on what they are 90% wouldn't have a clue. The other 10% are farmers, police, and driving instructors.

live here in the amish area of lancaster,pa. many have been killed here on the roads with all the lights, triangles,flashers and all the reflective tape you want to see. some drivers of cars and trucks just do not pay attention to what they should be doing,,, the speed limit and what is on the road in front of them. and worse of all is they just don t care, they want to fly and claim the road as if it is thier own personnel driveway!! local magistrate opened my eyes a few years back,,,he told me that the only people who constitutinally have a right to the road is the horse and buggy,,, driving anything else on the road is a "priviledge" that the state can take away.

We have to make sure that they have the right ri worship in a manner that they choose, BUT...we do not have to allow that right of religious freedom to interfere with laws and customs of our municipalities, states, and fed. The law says ya gotta use an SMV sign...USE ONE! ...or don't use the road. What is annoying here is that they don't even pay any road use tax...ya suppose those horse shoes do any pavement damage? I am a farm boy so not particularly disgusted by animal waste, but nothing more annoying than driving through a pile of fresh horse schnit after ya just washed the truck...I am required by law to clean up my dog schnit when I walk her in certain areas, why shouldn't they be reqiored to stop and clean up their horsey poop?
Blah, blah blah on their right to the road while it's a privilege for us to drive...obviously it's a privilege for them too that can be lost by not following V&T laws.
What people don't understand about the Amish is that they can vote to change whatever rule they want (Church Elders can anyway) and they use the system: They can ride in vehicles but not own ant, they can hire work done by rubber tired equipment, and they can use phones and other devices, just not their own. They also like to make their own church driven laws and punishments and ignore "English Laws" (any goverment law) and here is a good example of one: Get caught using alcohol and face excommunication from the church for one year. Bugger your Daughter or Sister though and face a 2-6 month excomunication!
My buddy had an Amish family buy the farm next to his in Northern Pa. a few years back; soon after they moved in they knocked on his door and asked to use his phone, he let them, the frequency increased and never once did they take off their boots prior to tracking in. Within 2-3 months they would just walk into the house to use the phone uninvited...never knock and never offered to pay a cent despite long distance calls.

and you believed this local magistrate?????? That's a good one!!!

3 different sects by me, two use the SMV sign, One does not. State fought it and lost. These will not use them because they think that it puts their faith in a symbol (the smv sign) rather than God. Weather I agree with it or not is a moot point. They are on the road without signage, we know it, and we have to watch out for them. Hitting a horse and buggy in wis is the same as hitting a pedestrian. This summer I picked two amish neighbors up at 3:00 am at the hospital ER after the wagon they had was rear ended on their way home from the farmers market. Driver of the suv was sober, but went away in handcuffs. ( sorry, do not know the final outcome)
What I think is discusting is their lack of knowlage, their faith in anyone with a DR. degree in their name, and the people out their who want to scam them for their money because of their lack of education. One of my amish neighbors had a developmentaly disabled child. Still diapered at age 5. Not speaking in complete sentances. Did not start walking untill 3. not hiting the standard benchmarks. The parents decided they needed to get help for this child. so they are taking him to a CHIROPRACTOR who did an exam (???!!!) of the child and told them that the child was mentaly fine and it was just that the connection from the brain to the body had not yet developed. They are to bring this child to the chiropractor twice a week for the next three to five years to have his spine aligned to let the brain to body connection re-established. AND THEY BELEVE THIS!!!!

there are 72 different sects or splits within the amish church.

If you see amish moving into your community you are in for a nasty road,flat tires from horseshoe nails,they are just nasty people that use the amish lifestyle as a coverup.They dont pay taxs like the rest of us have to, they dont serve in the military and will take your community over if you let them. And aggravate the hell out of you wanting a FREE ride to town 3 times a day.

Amish are people, no more, no less. Some are good neighbors, some aren't. There's a lot of comments here that would get you banned if you said them about a black guy. Grow up.

The sign is useless. I haul fertilizer to farmers in a Adams fertilizer buggy. Got a sign,reflectors and tape all over the thing. People still run up on me. Of course if they were watching the road. Instead of texting,talking,playing games on the cell phone. They might see me.

Agree 100% with you.

Some of the comments are not true either, just like everything that is available to us on the internet..

Like Paying Taxes---where I live they do pay property taxes and income tax (at least on what they report--just like most of us)

All public records.....you can go online and see what their property tax bill is...who is paying and who is delinquent.

Tim

I believe that the use, or non use, of SMV signs
has already gone to court in Wisconsin and
Minnesota, and the Amish won. They don't have
to use them if they don't want to!

That"s quite a statement: "the sign is useless"!

I know I, myself (and can I also asume you) have the sense to slow down when I see a slow moving vehicle sign.
I would bet the bigger percentage of people driving in a rural area would do the same.

Not saying there are not a lot of AHs out there who text, and talk on their cell phones and do a myriad of other stupid things that could get themselves and a hapless victim killed or maimed!

wow the good,,the bad,, and the ugly....



Whatever happened to: "give us your poor,your tired,your huddled masses longing to be free"
congrads to kruschev,,i can remember seeing him pounding the podium at the united nations saying to america,,"we will take you america,,without firing a shot" yes sir they~ve done it