Hauling Heavy Culvert, Take 2

I mistakenly entered the wrong weight last weekend when I asked this so am trying again with the correct weight.

Can anyone give me a ball park estimate for hauling and unloading one or two heavy precast reinforced concrete culvert pipe sections?

The two sections are 10 1/2' ID, 10" wall thickness, 14' length and weigh about 59,000 lbs. each.

The trucking distance is about 30 miles and will require permits in both OH and IN.

Of course, I will need a heavy crane on my end to unload and set the sections.

The seller will load the sections. Lifting points are cast in and lifting apparatus is loaned by the seller.

I make take one or both sections.

Thanks in advance.

Dean

Estimates from here (unless someone is willing to bid on it) are moderately useful. Getting two capable haulers to bid on it is much more operational. Ask if they are willing to bid on the job, show them pictures, then request a bid. This is a specialty equipment job and the pipes need to be very cheap to make it work. Best of luck. Jim

Morning Dean, I'm not a crane guy by any means
but have been around some sets of heavier box culverts. Just a thought MHO you can find a few hourly rates for cranes on the net but the type and size of crane needed is going to be determine by the site conditions. Can a truck crane access this site? If so whats the approximate boom radius going need to be to reach the set point. I've seen some smaller 40 ton truck cranes struggle to set 28000 lb aprons due to reach, and working next to a big excavation that operators not setting them outriggers ANYWHERE near that. Maybe a little more site info would get you some answers.

I would think that you might would be ahead if you formed and poured a box culvert. The liabilty on those cranes is alot and you have to have the cranes perfectly level and stable with that much weight. Just my two cents.

Thanks, Tom.

I, too, am not a crane operator but in a former life I worked in a steel mill where, among other things, I operated a 75 ton overhead crane and was (at the time) certified to operate the 25 ton wheel crane.

The truck can get within 75' or so from the bridge site and I'm confident that a large wheel crane can unload, move and set the culverts (there are no natural obstacles aside from a few trees that I will remove) but I have no idea of the cost to do so or even the cost to haul the culverts to the site.

Dean

You may be right, Sam. I'm considering several options including a concrete bridge. I've contacted a local heavy concrete contractor but we have not yet gotten together.

Dean

I agree, Jim.

I'm considering several options. This option is a huge overkill but I have a contact that can get these culvert pipes for the asking as they are slightly damaged and not fit for the intended project.

Dean

Dean, total up all anticipated exp. then find out what cmp(corrugated metal pipe)or corragated plastic pipe would cost. Just sounds to me like the "free rcp(reinforced concrete pipe)" is not your best option. Plus you only have a 10.5 inch id, won't carry very much water in a heavy downpour. I am not sure what your project is but handling rcp is for heavy equip, cmp can be handled in shorter lengths by hand and loader tractor, and coupled together to get your 28 ft. Just a thought gobble

The truck can get within 75 feet of bridge site.
So can we assume that the crane can only get within 75 feet.
Setting 30 tons out 75 feet is going to take a big crane. While it has been years since I have messed with this I am going to guess and say you will need over a 100 ton crane for this job.
Now you are talking big bucks because a crane this size takes set up and break down time; minumum charge time; comes with a oiler and operator; ect.
You would be far ahead finding a lighter material or working the ground so a smaller crane can get closer.

Hauling wouldn't be a big deal. At least not here. That would be a pretty normal load on a tridem... and we'd just sneak it in on the tandem axle roads. No permits required as long as you get it down to legal height on a step deck.

The real problem would be placement. That will take a big crane or perhaps a 988 class wheel loader. I think you're going to need to do some more road development to get closer than 75 feet...

Rod

I would assume that the crane would unload the pipe, set it a short distance from the truck, move, move the culvert again, etc., probably 3 or 4 times.

The limiting factor will be setting the culvert in the ditch, which will probably require extending the boom enough to move the culvert 10 -15 feet from the crane.

Dean

I am considering two sites. One is an existing road where the truck could move within a very few feet of the site. The other will involve a new road which could be roughed in prior to setting the culvert, which again would allow the truck to get within a few feet of the site.

Of course, in either case, the trailer would need to be backed up to the site, which is far less than ideal.

Dean

The ID is 10.5 feet, not inches. Wall thickness is 10 inches.

Tom:

As JMS says below, the ID of the pipe is 10 1/2 feet. The current poured concrete bridge is approximately 5' X 5'. This bridge does overflow occasionally (maybe every 4 - 5 years) but it takes a real gulley washer.

The 10 1/2' pipe is a huge overkill but I can get if for the asking. The question is transportation and setting cost.

Dean

Tom:

As JMS says below, the ID of the pipe is 10 1/2 feet. The current poured concrete bridge is approximately 5' X 5'. This bridge does overflow occasionally (maybe every 4 - 5 years) but it takes a real gulley washer.

The 10 1/2' pipe is a huge overkill but I can get if for the asking. The question is transportation and setting cost.

Dean

Dean, I remember in your last post you were weighing several options and which one you went with was dependent alot on the costs involved. In that case I think your too worried about the cheapest part of the situation, ie the move, and not worried enough about the big expense which is the crane. Having dealt with quite a few heavy picks over the years setting equipment apart, I can tell you for a fact that a crane capable of doing what you want isn't going to be anywhere near cheap.

That said dependent upon the brand and type of crane available in your area as to what size/tonnage machine your going to need. There are wheeled hydraulic cranes, wheeled lattice boom cranes, hydraulic all terrain cranes, etc, etc, and each one has it's own peculatities when it comes to what it can and can't pick at a given radius. In other words you can't assume that because the load is less than 30 tons that you can get by with even a 50 ton machine for the reason just mentioned as well as due to the fact that the rated tonnage is typically going to be at a radius too close to the machine to do you any good given the size of the object your needing to pick. Too clearance issues, ground conditions, and other factors also come into play when your picking something that heavy. In other words ground conditions may prevent the crane from setting up within 40 feet of the hole the pipe is going in to insure it doesn't collapse the wall of the 'trench' and even if a 30 ton machine could do the pick close in your going to need a much larger machine to do it at the larger radius.

As a for instance I did some work several months back helping get some mounting brackets and two telementry antennas set on top of a water tower. The heaviest pick was less than 300 lbs but there was no other way to get the pieces to the top and set other than a crane. What we were looking at there was a height to the top of the tank of approx 253 feet with the crane setting with it's centerline at about a 250 foot radius. In other words the crane had to be able to set up, raise his boom to an angle that allowed it to clear the largest diameter of the tower, and put the tip more than 40 feet above the height of the tower to accomodate the additional height of the antennas and have room to spare. In order to do what we needed done at the radius and height required we had to use a 175 ton crane with 3 additional jib sections and the fold away offset jib also attached. It took the operator and crew nearly 4 hours hard at it to set up, another 4 in the dark to tear down, and about 4 hours of total use to get everything set. The cost for that machine for the day was over $7600.

Basically what I am trying to tell you is you need to take the time to call your local crane rental company and get them to send someone out to look at the site and give you an estimate on that part of the equation before you do anything else. A crane large enough to handle the load your looking at picking is going to have a minimum charge right off the bat. Too laying cribbing, and getting the machine setup to pick is also very laborous and time consuming, and dependent upon the crane type some more so than others. As a result the first set and breakdown up is usually included in the estimate but there is often additional tacked on for each time they have to break down the setup and move. In other words if your thinking they are going to set up, pick, breakdown, move, setup, pick, breakdown, move, numerous times to get the pipe close enough to where it goes to set it in the hole, all for the same price, it's most likely just wishful thinking.

Like I said if I were you this would be my first concern before I spend any more time on here asking for guestimations on the moving cost as I believe that will be the lesser part of the cost involved in what your wanting to do. Good luck.

Thanks, Wayne.

As there are 3 steel mills within 40 miles of me, there are several crane rental companies in the area, one within 20 miles.

Do you think that they will send an estimator out to my place to work up an estimate for a private project?

Dean

A friend of mine who is in the heavy equipment moving business suggested simply rolling the pipes off of the trailer and dragging them into place with a dozer. One of the sites has a relatively flat area beside the road where the pipes could be stored until the road and bridge are built

Is idea feasible? Would doing so damage the trailer if it was supported by cribbing during roll off?

Dean

Rod:

Pardon my ignorance but what's a tridem? A tri axle trailer?

Dean

Tridem is a three axle cluster. What we call a tri-axle is an older trailer (now outlawed here) that had a mid mounted lift axle... meaning the rear cluster was close spread and this other devil had 10-15' spread ahead of the second axle. A tridem is an equal spread cluster.

Rod

Would they survive the roll off the truck?? I'd think you would also probably need a 7 or 8 class machine to do much more than roll those along too.
I just have visions of them getting damaged in the process but I've never dealt with concrete culverts.

Rod

Dean check over on http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/ in the crane section as far as size and if they will come and look at the site. I bet they will becasue of libility and OSHA.

Last time I knew about prices it was 150 and hour for a 50 ton hydraulic wheel crane for the time it left the yard to return in 1980 for an easy lift from a semi trailer to the ground, about 20 feet away in a large parking area. It was on site maybe 15 minutes.

Rick

Dean, sorry, my bad I read the diameter incorrectly. I am currently involved in a sanitary sewer project. We are laying 84"(7 ft) id and 144"(12ft)id.Concrete pipe. The pipe comes in 8ft sections. It is all a 375 Cat backhoe wants to get those walked down into the trench and placed. You indeed have amassive project underway, better get some pro's on board. It's gotta be right the first time. Too much money to screw anything up. Good luck gobble

Call the Crane companies and tell them what your doing, they will ask lots of questions and come out if your serious about doing it this way. THEY will then tell you how they will do it and what needs to be done to prepare for the lift. The crane and rigging liability is theirs and they take things very seriously. You will get an operator and an oiler with the crane, the oiler will help you with the rigging. Cranes cost money and big cranes cost big money, but they get things done. Rolling and dragging a 30 ton culvert sounds like a bad idea to me.

I do not know, Rod, but they are heavily reinforced.

Perhaps, the ground could be coutoured such that they could be rolled into position but I do not know how one pipe could be connected into the bell of the other without lifting.

My neighbor is in the excavating business and will do the excavating work but his largest equipment is a Case 450 Dozer and a Cat 312 (?) track hoe (ignoring the awesome AC D-21).

Dean

Dean- regarding rolling it off the trailer- could you provide some cribbing, or make a dirt ramp to use? Then just push them in place with a dozer, whatever? Round things have a tendency to roll with a bit of a push. Course, alignment at the site, if more than one piece, can be an issue. Innovation is an attribute.

Got it.

Thank you.

Dean

Thanks, Rick.

I'll check it out.

Dean

If they are free, just roll them off the truck. Push a little soft dirt up to the lowboy and go for it. Our road-commissioner just set a rail-road tank car that way. They just had one track hoe that weighed about 38000 lbs. No problem, just pushed it into the ditch. and covered it up. It did take them 2 days getting the old one out and the new one in.

(quoted from post at 18:56:34 01/14/12) A friend of mine who is in the heavy equipment moving business suggested simply rolling the pipes off of the trailer and dragging them into place with a dozer. One of the sites has a relatively flat area beside the road where the pipes could be stored until the road and bridge are built

Is idea feasible? Would doing so damage the trailer if it was supported by cribbing during roll off?

Dean

Click to expand...

When I put in a corrugated metal culvert, the driver rolled it off the trailer. It was only 42" x 20' long. I didn't want to get in the way of that and it was nowhere near the weight of what you're talking about.

Getting 30 tons rolling would be quite a sight and if it's dropping onto flat ground, it's not going far. Yeah, I would not be surprised if it came back a little and damaged the trailer. If there's any slope at all where you drop it, it's going to go in that direction and keep on going most likely. A plan like that had better be carefully considered or we'll see it on Youtube someday.

Then, when you get it on the ground, you've got to put it where you want it. That's 30 tons of not-wanting-to-go-anywhere (times 2). Not to mention trying to join 2 sections together in a controlled manner.

I'll bet you that FREE culvert+crane+trucking > buy a corrugated culvert.
I'm the king of make-it-work and I wouldn't touch that project with a 10 ft pole.

Why waste your time asking on this site? Get a phone book and a phone and look in the yellow pages for trucking companys and crane operators and give them a call. Would take less time and then you would know how much it is going to cost you and if it can be done or not. Problem solved.

This might be a really dumb question here Deanwhy not go with a corrugated steel one that that 312 cat could handle with ease and set a twenty foot section then set the next one and use two head walls precast concrete use premium back fill compacted then compacted dirt and gravel over top for the road . The 450 and the 312 will do the job and the only extra piece of equipment would be a vibrating tamper on the 312 if it is plumed for it . I put in several that size back in my oil field days to make a creek crossing or to make a valley crossing and IF done correctly even a 200000lb + drilling rig and all the support equipment never caved it in and should last fifty years. Lot simpler lot lest money BUT some assembly is required and no big equipment and no over weight and over width permits required just some bolts and some wrenchen .

When the Pharaohs' engineers were building the Pyramids, I wonder what the crane tonnage was and what sort of reach they needed? Surely, some Of those blocks weighed more than 30 tons.

I would put the culvert sections together at grade level with a dozen tie-rods made from scrap steel. Perhaps 1" pipe with threaded rod welded into the ends. I would push the assembly where I wanted it and would start digging with the excavator on one side until the assembly was low enough. It would be a little like sinking a bridge caisson.

This presupposes that your trucker will allow a roll off from his trailer. I don't see a problem if the trailer is adequately blocked and shimmed.

The ones we have here have a hole left in the middle. We drop the end of a chain thru it and tie it around a steel bar inside the culvert then use a backhoe to lift them off and set them in place.

Oh didn't see the size/weight. Disregard my previous statement.

I'd just about guarantee it. To them whether it's a corprate job, or a job for a private entity, a pick is a pick. Either way they are liable for the setup, the rigging, etc, etc so they aren't going to take a chance of going into a job without all of the information needed to do it safely. Like I said give them a call. They may be able to give you a ball park estimate over the phone using your figures but if your serious I know they'll send somebody on site to get their own. What they'll need wil be the weight and possibly the dimensions of the pipe, and some sort of idea where it's going and how close the crane can get to where it needs to be picked from and set. Too they may also need to know what will be needed to rig the piece. I say this because the way OSHA has gotten about anything crane and lifting related they may have issues using anything but their own rigging, unless the rigging from the pipe's supplier has the proper capacity markings/tags. Once again good luck with which ever direction you choose to take.

Morning Vet, may be foolish question for you but couldn't help thinking about a cheaper solution to unloading this pipe. Granted buying new corrugated steel pipe is likely the most economical answer. Would a 583 with a hydraulic side boom lift and carry this pipe off of a lowboy? I see they list lift capacities of over 50 tons. Thought maybe local pipe liner might have one available to Dean cheaper then a crane and would solve the site mobility answer. Wondering what someone with experience would think.

If you have some loose dirt pushed up you can roll them off with no damage. ten inch thick concrete is hard to break. R;un a chain thru them with a couple rail road ties across the end to tie a good chain to and if the ground is graded hard, that D21 will probably move them, with the small dozer pushing. If you can roll or push pull them close, a 100 ton crane can set them, probably less than 2000 bucks for 4 hr minimum here. If one side of ditch is virgin soil and straight side, I could set it with a 80 ton if they were close to pick up,

Not dumb at all, Vet.

The free concrete culvert pipe is only one of several options that I am considering and certainly the most challenging one.

As I certainly do not need such a large and heavy culvert, I'm beginning to think that other options may be more cost effective, despite the free culverts. A 6' metal or plastic pipe would probably be adequate, and a 6 x 8 box culvert ideal.

The manufacturer, no doubt, has valid reasons for giving them away.

Dean