- Thread starter WJD
- Start date
I put an electric heat pump in about 1 1/2 years ago and couldn"t be happier with it. However electric prices are following fuel prices and going up also. My furnace is a propane furnace so I have propane backup in the really cold weather or if electricity gets too high priced. Geothermal heat pumps are more efficient but more expensive up front.
Put in geothermal 8 years ago. Use to be a huge savings over propane. But our local utility has been slowing creeping up. My bill has almost doubled in the last 8 years... but I am still about 40% cheaper than LP. Hard to trully compare with the neighbors, I leave my stat at 69F year round, in the winter they drop the temp at night, and all day when they are gone.
Pros. monthly bill is cheaper.
Cons. Blower runs longer, if you have a forced air system. When something breaks its usually expensive. I ended up with $1000 circuit board and motor that puked.
My two cents.
Rick
Pros. monthly bill is cheaper.
Cons. Blower runs longer, if you have a forced air system. When something breaks its usually expensive. I ended up with $1000 circuit board and motor that puked.
My two cents.
Rick
Bob M
Well-known Member
One of my kid's houses has a geothermal source heat pump system, supplemented by a woodburning furnace.
Pros are the system works well for both heating and cooling. It's been reliable (6 years so far...) and his electric bills are reasonable.
The cons are the system - especially the controls - are fiendishly complex. Any maintenance beyond changing the blower filter require the services of a skilled technician.
Pros are the system works well for both heating and cooling. It's been reliable (6 years so far...) and his electric bills are reasonable.
The cons are the system - especially the controls - are fiendishly complex. Any maintenance beyond changing the blower filter require the services of a skilled technician.
ShadetreeRet
Well-known Member
I would think the location would have a bearing on it. In northern parts of the country it may have to run longer unless you put in a larger unit. Most electric heat pumps are sized depending on the size of the house. I live in central North Carolina and in 2001 we bought a total electric manufactured house and installed an A/C heat pump combination and I am well pleased with it. My power bill averages about $175.00 to $200.00 a month. One bill covers heating/cooling, hot water, elec. stove, the whole shootin' match. If I had propane or oil heat my power bill would be a little less, but my heating bill would be a heckuva lot more.
They"ve come a long way since then. As mentioned - your geographic location has a lot to do with it. They still will not perform down in the 20"s and colder. You"ll be into the backup heat at that point. However, the newer units have the variable speed blowers and programmable/overides for when backup heat comes on. We"ve had some customers who override it to use the backup heat when it"s 40 and rainy and not use it at 35 and sunny - just what makes them comfortable. The variable speed blowers also help on the electric use.
I"m not an HVAC guy, but we"ve had several now installed in newer projects and remodels. Everyone seems happy and we don"t have the old complaints about the house always seeming cold.
Good luck
Tony
I"m not an HVAC guy, but we"ve had several now installed in newer projects and remodels. Everyone seems happy and we don"t have the old complaints about the house always seeming cold.
Good luck
Tony
There are two types of heat pumps...air source, like ours that works til about 15 degrees before the (LP) furnace kicks in, and ground source, which provides all HEAT. I don"t understand the post about ground source, with a woodburner backup! Ground source heat pumps provide ALL the heat. We built a new house in "97, decided against ground source since the payback was over 10 years, didn"t think we"d still be here, this late in farming. Since, we decided we"ll retire here, and put in an air source system. We buy very little LP, air source pump just costs the electricity to run it, and in summer is the AC.
Works great in a temperate climate, and especially good if your electric rates are low. Definitely a "bingo" in the Pacific Northwest- average winter temp is between 40 and 50, which is the "power range" for a heat pump, and juice is 4.5 cents per kilowatt.
Drawback is that the heated air is only a few degrees above your target room temp, so blower runs much of the time, and with the "wind chill", it doesn't feel as warm as other types. When it gets really cold here (20), we run the woodstove to make it "cozy".
Just curious- is natural gas widely available outside the cities in the midwest? No gas lines outside of towns here. Probably because with cheap electricity, its hard to justify the infrastructure cost of putting in lines.
Drawback is that the heated air is only a few degrees above your target room temp, so blower runs much of the time, and with the "wind chill", it doesn't feel as warm as other types. When it gets really cold here (20), we run the woodstove to make it "cozy".
Just curious- is natural gas widely available outside the cities in the midwest? No gas lines outside of towns here. Probably because with cheap electricity, its hard to justify the infrastructure cost of putting in lines.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
It depends on where you are and what your alternatives are. If you live north of the Mason-Dixon line and have natural gas available, I would not consider any sort of heat pump. If you're further north and your alternative is propane, then a geothermal heat pump can still make sense, but it's going to take a while to pay back your initial investment.
I don't think anyone who has owned a house with a heat pump would call them "great". The heat they put out seems cold, and they are expensive to repair if you have any problems.
I don't think anyone who has owned a house with a heat pump would call them "great". The heat they put out seems cold, and they are expensive to repair if you have any problems.
I'm buildin a new house right now and it was a decsion between Geothermal and conventional (propane force air). The first bids on geothermal were over 20K more then conventional. But after allowing the companies to suffer through a year of bad economy and realigning the system the bids came within a couple of K. The backup is electrical however the install allows room for installing propane in the event backup kicks in very often.
I am led to believe that with geothermal backup doesn't come till down around 0.
I am led to believe that with geothermal backup doesn't come till down around 0.
I did some serious research on this when I built a new house in MI. Air to air pumps don't work as well in northern climates. My neighbor has an air to ground (geothermal) and loves it. I checked into that and the initial cost was rediculous. It boils down to your age. I crunched the numbers and realized I was not going to get a payback with geothermal over propane in the expected remainder of my life. If I was 20 years younger it would be a different story.
When I did research on which unit to buy four years ago I settled on a Trane. It's been a reliable unit since then. Our electric bill went down about about $20.00 per month but I expected more based on what the business owner said. I would do it again. They do have very large condensor's.
TDF
Well two things going for us. We live in moderate climate middle Tennessee and fairly cheap electric rates. Also live within 20 miles of the large TRANE plant. At 67 years age couldn,t see puting the gound water source in. Have conventional air to air 3 year old Trane unit. Retirment hous is 2870 sq ft heated with one vaulted tall celling room. Cost about the same to cool it in July as it does to heat in in cold weather. Very satisfied.
Keith Williams
Member
- Location
- Wellsville, Ohio
Maybe it only can produce a limited amount of heat. Would need higher BTU's in colder weather?
Keith
Keith
I'm in NW SC and our heat pump does not do a good job keeping us warm. As soon as the temps drop below 45 the heat strips come on and stay on when the unit is running.
We had a new insid eand out side unit installed about 4 years ago and it has never been right in the cold temps. In the summer time it will run you out of the house it's so cold but in the winter it does not work as good as the old unit did. new units installed by same contractor that installed the original unit and the units are the same size and made by the same company (Goodman).
Never have been able to figure out why there is such a difference between the two units.
We had a new insid eand out side unit installed about 4 years ago and it has never been right in the cold temps. In the summer time it will run you out of the house it's so cold but in the winter it does not work as good as the old unit did. new units installed by same contractor that installed the original unit and the units are the same size and made by the same company (Goodman).
Never have been able to figure out why there is such a difference between the two units.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Perhaps you should ask the question, Who has the oldest working heat pump? My son just bought a house with a 15 year old heat pump and the building inspector thinks it may be not long for this world because of it's age.
Heat pumps are expensive, geo-heat pumps even more. I'm not sure it's worth it, unless your electric company gives you a price break in the winter months and the government gives you a tax incentive. Then I still wouldn't have one.
I use the Kiss theory, Keep It Simple Stupid. Some places require landlords to put you their tenants up in a motel, if they are without heat for more than 24 hours or so. I have rentals and have over insulated, up graded doors and windows, and have electric base board heaters in every room. Very cheap to install and in 30 years I've had to replace 2 $15 thermostats. No such thing as a blower motor going out, ignitor failure, filters to replace, expensive service calls. Totally worry free. KISS!.
I have a 2200 sq ft total electric home with electric base board heat in every room in west centeral Indiana. Last month's bill was $155. Keep house around 62. Bedroom 65.
You want to save money, call an insulator and blow another foot of insulation in your attic. I know many insulators that work with contractors. They will blow attics for $.45/cubic ft. That's an R38. Best investment you will ever make. My last attic cost me $.55/sq ft and it was 15 inches deep.
You can't buy fiberglass insulation that cheep. Job is done in minutes and you don't have to get in the attic.
George
Heat pumps are expensive, geo-heat pumps even more. I'm not sure it's worth it, unless your electric company gives you a price break in the winter months and the government gives you a tax incentive. Then I still wouldn't have one.
I use the Kiss theory, Keep It Simple Stupid. Some places require landlords to put you their tenants up in a motel, if they are without heat for more than 24 hours or so. I have rentals and have over insulated, up graded doors and windows, and have electric base board heaters in every room. Very cheap to install and in 30 years I've had to replace 2 $15 thermostats. No such thing as a blower motor going out, ignitor failure, filters to replace, expensive service calls. Totally worry free. KISS!.
I have a 2200 sq ft total electric home with electric base board heat in every room in west centeral Indiana. Last month's bill was $155. Keep house around 62. Bedroom 65.
You want to save money, call an insulator and blow another foot of insulation in your attic. I know many insulators that work with contractors. They will blow attics for $.45/cubic ft. That's an R38. Best investment you will ever make. My last attic cost me $.55/sq ft and it was 15 inches deep.
You can't buy fiberglass insulation that cheep. Job is done in minutes and you don't have to get in the attic.
George
We're in our mid-seventy's, but put in ground source geo thermal heating and cooling about three years ago. We (wife) keeps the thermostat at 73 in a 1,000 s/f 90-year-old house. Our bill for running the compressor all of last winter at a reduced electric rate of 4.7 KWH was $223.00. We reasoned that the farm would be worth the price of installation of the geo-thermal extra when the place got sold. Who wouldn't want to buy a house with an efficient heating system? The most efficient heating system is one that runs 24/7 on the coldest day/night and yet keeps the temp comfortable. On a -18 degree day and night, ours ran 22 hours last winter. We're very happy with ours.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
s previously stated in a round about way .An air source heat pump is useless when air temps are below freezing.Closed loop ground source tend to fail about mid winter as most people undersize the underground pipe bed. Well water ground source work best if good flow of low mineral water is on tap
showcrop
Well-known Member
Dave, You must have gotten quotes on shallow geothermal as opposed to deep well. I have been wondering if someone had access to a good sized hoe and could do the excavation himself for tubing laid out say, twenty feet down that it should be a lot less expensive than with drilled wells.
johndeerefan
Member
I have a Goodman 15 seer split system heat pump. I also have the propane furnace for auxiliary heat instead of electric heat strips. The thermostat automatically switches from heat pump to propane at any set outdoor temperature I want it to.
Built our log house 3 years ago in Kentucky. 2000 sq. ft. with almost half of it having a vaulted ceiling. We keep the house 78 degrees year round. Most expensive electric bill has been $200 winter or summer. We pay 7.5 cents per kilowatt. Only bad part is having to fill the 500 gallon tank every year at over $2 per gallon.
I am seriously thinking of supplementing it with an outdoor wood furnace. That will let me heat my shop also. I didn't do it originally because I hate cutting firewood.
Built our log house 3 years ago in Kentucky. 2000 sq. ft. with almost half of it having a vaulted ceiling. We keep the house 78 degrees year round. Most expensive electric bill has been $200 winter or summer. We pay 7.5 cents per kilowatt. Only bad part is having to fill the 500 gallon tank every year at over $2 per gallon.
I am seriously thinking of supplementing it with an outdoor wood furnace. That will let me heat my shop also. I didn't do it originally because I hate cutting firewood.
Thanks for your response. I'm looking at a place in Southern Indiana with a heat pump. From the responses it seems like you need a back-up system.
I saw your comment on an outdoor wood furnace. Don't know what type you are looking at. My brother has a boiler type. It has a water tank above the fire that is plumbed to the hot water heater and furnace indoors. The installation costs have gone up a lot in recent years and you can't go on vacarion during winter months as the fire has to be fed twice a day (3 times in bitter cold). As you said cutting wood is a huge job. By brother buys scraps (ends of logs, etc) from a sawmill which helps a lot. Also, you have to keep a year ahead with your wood supply to let it dry. By brother's installation took between 2-3 years to pay for itself. My be more now but the price of other fuels has gone up too.
Hope this helps you.
I saw your comment on an outdoor wood furnace. Don't know what type you are looking at. My brother has a boiler type. It has a water tank above the fire that is plumbed to the hot water heater and furnace indoors. The installation costs have gone up a lot in recent years and you can't go on vacarion during winter months as the fire has to be fed twice a day (3 times in bitter cold). As you said cutting wood is a huge job. By brother buys scraps (ends of logs, etc) from a sawmill which helps a lot. Also, you have to keep a year ahead with your wood supply to let it dry. By brother's installation took between 2-3 years to pay for itself. My be more now but the price of other fuels has gone up too.
Hope this helps you.
johndeerefan
Member
In Southern Indiana it will need some type of auxiliary heat, whether it be electric heat strips, propane/NG furnace, or some type of boiler. 90% of the heat pump systems use the electric heat strip method. The "Hybrid" propane furnace option hasn't been around for very long and cost me about $400 more to install than the heat strips "electric furnace" when I was building my house. I use anywhere between 200-400 gallons of propane a winter. Regardless, if a heat pump is installed, it will have some type of auxiliary "Emergency" heat source. I have my "Emergency" heat set to switch at 35 degrees outdoor temperature. Heat pumps are really only efficient to the mid-upper 30's. It will also automatically switch from heat pump to propane if the household temperature gets more than 3 degrees different than the thermostat setting. I highly recommend the Honeywell touchscreen thermostats with outdoor air temperature sensor if you do this.
I worked on a farm for a guy that had an outdoor woodburner unit. He owned a pallet mill, so he burned wood blocks. My job was to feed the beast in the afternoon. It uses a ton of wood, but it is cheap. Others I know have pulp wood delivered to them from a logger. I was thinking of getting this type unit only because I want to be able to heat my 30x40 shop cheaper than installing a propane heater that hangs from the ceiling. I have plenty of fallin trees to cut, I just hate cutting it.
I worked on a farm for a guy that had an outdoor woodburner unit. He owned a pallet mill, so he burned wood blocks. My job was to feed the beast in the afternoon. It uses a ton of wood, but it is cheap. Others I know have pulp wood delivered to them from a logger. I was thinking of getting this type unit only because I want to be able to heat my 30x40 shop cheaper than installing a propane heater that hangs from the ceiling. I have plenty of fallin trees to cut, I just hate cutting it.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I have built 2 new houses in the last 10 years and put heat pumps with propane backup systems in both. One system was Carrier, second system is York. I like the systems fine (when working) and both are very efficient. These are both big houses with high ceilings but very very well insulated and top quality windows. Both heat pumps were 16 to 18 seer ratings.
Now the down side. Very expensive to install and just too darned complicated. The repairmen can not figure out what to do. Needed to call in the factory rep in both systems to get them to run right.
Inorder to get these super high efficiencies they squeeze and tweek every little part of the heat or cool cycle with lots of computer programing. If you think a car is complicated to work on, you should see the manuals on these HVAC systems.
Would I do it again? Maybe. When it works it is great. When it doesn't...uugh.
Now the down side. Very expensive to install and just too darned complicated. The repairmen can not figure out what to do. Needed to call in the factory rep in both systems to get them to run right.
Inorder to get these super high efficiencies they squeeze and tweek every little part of the heat or cool cycle with lots of computer programing. If you think a car is complicated to work on, you should see the manuals on these HVAC systems.
Would I do it again? Maybe. When it works it is great. When it doesn't...uugh.
We put in a hybrid system with lp and heat pump. So far so good. Heat pump is set to heat til down 19 degrees and then the lp kicks in. Its a Bryant system. Before our family grew and got an extra fridge and freezer, our electric bills were very reasonable for our area. It cost just under $11,000 to put in with the high efficiency furnace.
We kept our 50 yr old Lp furnace put a shut off on the chimney, opens when heat hits it. ( I can work on it) Put a 13 seer heat-pump / air-conditioner on top of it. We have a manual thermostat. We have to change from heat pump to LP. They are right heat pump will work down to 18 if is in the sun and the humidity is low. But if is raining it will freeze up at 40. That is why we control it. I just changed it to LP for the night low 20's. During the day will always keep the house warm. We think is worth it. Just cost 3500 to put on existing furnace. We live in Southern Il. West of Evansville In. Vic
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy