Natural Gas Powered Duel Fuel Tractors

Marc_FL · Jan 22, 2012

I follow energy commodities on a daily basis. Natural gas is trading on the CME like it did in the 90's and looks like it going to make a run at $2.00 / DTH or below.

The load demand curves are opposite major tractor usage. Low demand in the summer and higher in the winter.

Its USA supplied so, there is no reliance on foreign oil or any oil for that matter.

Supply is abundent with convential wells and shale extraction.

Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) has already been around in cars and city buses for decades. It's been crash tested and the cylinders don't explode on impact.

There have been LP tractors why not Natural Gas?

I through this open because the way it's trading on the wholesale level and should remain in the near term future, would imply the direct fuel inputs would have the potential to greatly reduce the fuel cost side of AG.

I have no idea if it is feasible, but I've seen on this YT website, that folks can take apart tractors down to the last washer..

I understand there would be logistical issues.

But from a mechanical perspective..Is it feasible?

buickanddeere · Jan 22, 2012

Limited range, high volume extreme pressure tanks, slow fill times, investment,owner/operator education, manufacture's investment and the D*MMED EPA's meddling.
How do you fit a NG system onto a Tier IV diesel engine?

Dan in North Houston · Jan 22, 2012

I had a salesman friend that was assigned a Buick (four door sedan) for his company car back in the 90's. It was dual fuel, regular gasoline and a CNG tank in the truck. The CNG tank was about 20" in diameter and ~ 3' long, pretty well took up most of the trunk. And it was good for something like 150 to 200 miles of travel on the CNG tank.
Based on this, I would hate to think of the size of a tank necessary to run a 150+ HP tractor at full throttle all day. It would have to be huge.

Bus Driver · Jan 22, 2012

After you learn the cost of the equipment to compress the NG for a tank on a vehicle, it will not look like a good deal.

Bus Driver · Jan 22, 2012

Some sources say that NG has an octane rating so high that it really will not ignite reliably in a compression-ignition engine. Cummins Canada is working on an engine that injects a tiny amount of Diesel fuel and the NG is injected a few micro-seconds later. Sounds workable but complicated.
Spark ignition is the norm for NG engines.

buickanddeere · Jan 22, 2012

It's called pilot injection. The diesel system stays at slow idle delivery rate. A governor meters NG into the intake manifold as power and rpms required.
Converting a diesel with spark plugs to operate on NG is a waste.
The newest systems do inject high pressure NG or LP at tank pressure direct into the combustion chambers.

massey333 · Jan 22, 2012

Where are you going to get the gas from?There are a lot of areas that have no NG even remotely close.

Indiana Ken · Jan 22, 2012

Marc,

Propane and Natural gas are both excellent fuels for engines. Both have higher octane than gasoline and would allow for very high compression and therefore efficient engines. In addition natural gas is the lowest in CO2 emissions of the fossil fuels. Propane has seen periods of popularity in tractors etc. however natural gas has not. The deal breaker for natural gas is that it remains a gas even at very high pressures, propane is easily converted to liquid. For example, at an ambient temperature of 100 degrees natural gas remains a gas 5000 psi, propane is a liquid and 190 psi at this temperature. Even at 5000 psi a tank of natural gas contains much less energy than a similar tank of liquid fuel, limiting the range or run time between fill ups. In addition equipment to handle the high pressures is costly. That's it in a nut shell.

VicS · Jan 22, 2012

If it is cheap enough we will use it! We'll pull a 1500 gal tank behind our tractors if it is cheap enough. They are leasing all over the mid-west to drill. Our neighbors to the south have already leased. They? are saying adequate oil and abundant Natural gas. 20 years ago I saw a Semi with a 855 Cummims that was a factory experimental on NG. Watch those brown UPS vans, they have supposedly went to 6L Chevy gas motors. I would bet they already have some running on NG. Vic.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 22, 2012

I worked on some large equipment used for natural gas production that had Cat 3412 diesel engines with spark plugs to run directly off natural gas from the well. They were only rated around 600 HP if I remember. I think the lower rating was so they would go a long time before needing an overhaul.

Natural Gas Powered Duel Fuel Tractors

Marc_FL

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buickanddeere

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Dan in North Houston

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Bus Driver

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Bus Driver

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buickanddeere

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massey333

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Indiana Ken

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VicS

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Anonymous-0

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