Kinds OT Cattle/Beef questions?

I use to run a few cows and calves a few years ago but do to some personal issues got out of it. Well, the wife has been wanting to get back into the cattle business and it"s always appealed to me. But she has it in her mind that finishing a few a selling them direct would be better than a cow calf operation.

Now keep in mind we are talking small scale here. I use to keep 5 to 10 cows plus calves and bull. If we we"re to finish a few and sell them off the farm, we"d probably start with 2 or 3, no more than 5.

Any input as to what makes more money as a small side? I"ve never finished any so I need to learn all I can about that aspect. What about picking up some Holsteins or Jersey bull calves cheap, banding them ans going from there? Not many around here but I can travel an hour or two and pick some up, just don"t know what kinda beef they make.

Of course what ages and weight are best to start and finish at and what king of price point(price per pound, on the hoof, hanging weight, who pays processing and so forth) are you looking at?

I start the University of Kentucky"s master cattleman program this Tuesday so I"m sure I"ll learn some there, but I always like real world input. Thanks.

Casey

Casey, I can't totally equate to your operation, because mine is a cow-calf with Angus cows. But if I was to try to feed a few out, I'd probably get angus or even hereford influanced feeders in the 8-900 # range. The prices for heavier calves even now is very high, but with feed costs as high as they are, they're more of a bargain because the weight is already there. Put them in a pen and feed them up to about 12-1400 lbs and get your butcher shop and customers lined up early. Most butchers around here are generally booked up for a month or two in advance. When we sell a side (I don't like selling quarters because everyone wants a hind quarter) I usually price it at twice the going market rate times 2 for hanging weight and the customer pays the butchering and processing. With the beef influence, the cutout should be around 60% or a bit better, dairy animals about 50-55%. When you sell hanging weight, your customer buys the bones and you only lose the offal weight. And your customer can do what they want with the bone cuts, leave them in or trim them out. They get to tell the butcher how they want it cut, and if they don't get it right, they can't blame you.

I only raise a few each year for the custom market, but this is the way we do it when we hold on to larger calves for burgers and steaks. Hope it's some help.

Shops here will split a side, selling quarters. Every other cut goes to one customer. Each customer gets some front, some rear cuts. They don"t charge extra for it. Might be an option for those that want only a quarter.

With the high feed cost right now it is hard to make much finishing cattle out. IF you have to buy your feed then you can lose money real easy. I know that some promote grass feed beef. I think they are out of the main stream and really don't make a real profit. They are pushing an agenda rather than a product. You are talking about a niche market either way. So research what freezer beef are selling for in your area. Just selling at the sale barn will be hard to make a profit on such a small scale.

If you have pasture then brood cows work fine. Year in year out the cows will make me money more often than the feed cattle. Plus I am using pasture ground that is not usable for anything else.

The feed cattle are a hit and a miss type of thing. You do real good some times and loose your shirt others. I am covered as I don't have to buy feed so if the cattle don't sell high I just lost the opportunity to sell my grain for a higher price. It is not a direst loss like buying the feed would cause.

I have been selling beef on the rail for 15 years. I have the same customers year after year with a few who come and go. I buy calves in the fall at 550-600 pounds and feed them through the winter and turn out on grass when it is ready. These calves have no growth hormones implants nor do they have any antibotics. I butcher the first and second week of October. I had 12 last year and processed 7 and the other 5 went to the sale barn. I got $2.10 per pound on the rail with the customer paying for all the rest. After this year I an not doing any half of a half. Sold the 5 at the local sale barn and got $1.00 per pound live, and they averaged 1225 pounds. I like the idea of the sale barn but private sales net me a few dollars more but not sure the head ache is worth it. I book my slaughter 1 year in advance. Bud

We sell halves and quarters and some of our cattle are born here and some are bought in. We do less than 10 a year and feed no grain. It's just too expensive. We have done pretty well with it.

Casey remember that the rate of gain on milk breed animals in not as good as beef breeds. There is a reason that Holstein and Jersey bull calves are selling for less. They take more feed to finish out. Plus a bag of milk replacer is right at $70 now. So when you take the cost of a good calf. Plus the milk replacer and then add in the extra feed cost they are not any more profitable than a beef breed.

You could go to the sale barn and pickup the odd/single calves and not have as much money in them. Most times the one and two calevs don't sell as high as a bigger groups.

Then run them on your pasture until fall and then sell them as larger feeder calves.

A very good friend of mine grain feeds Holstein steers and sells them direct to customers. He's got more customers than steers. I'll put his beef up against anybody's in a blind taste test.

We sell freezer pigs and also have more customers than pigs usually. It's a little more bother dealing direct with customers but the profit is much better.

We haul the hogs in, the customer pays us for the pig and pays the butcher for the processing when they pick up the meat. Our friend with steers does it the same way.

If you are selling halves and quarters and loosing money, even if you are buying corn, there's a problem with your business model. You don't have to sell for market price as long as you don't go too crazy.

Good luck, it's not a bad little sideline.

Tim

Casey there are several people raising beef for customers in this area, Woodford Franklin Anderson Cos. and are very successful at it. Talk to the people at the Master cattlemans meeting and talk to your County agent. Just remember if you go that route you are dealing with people and cattle!:>)

Your situation sounds like what I went thru a few yr. ago. I would go to the sale barn ,buy 4 or 5 aged bred beef cows,kind or color did not matter.Get them in early spring,calve them out ,sell them infall ,cows ,calves and all . No bull to mess with,no cows to feed in the winter.worked slick

Search e-bay for a copy of Morrisons ''feeds and feeding'', it was the number one reference and text book for many years and still has plenty of relevenat information for a small operator.

I used to do that, cow bull etc but having to pull the calves, get the vets to cut them out etc I thought there must be an easier way, so now I go to the market,buy about 6+ months old, that cuts out the Gestation period, growing up etc.I'm dabbling with 6 at the moment. I don't buy Dairy cattle, not enough on the rear, stick to the beef, Any breed. The best price seems to be for the 300-400 range. I note the heavier they are, the less you get, so you are wasting your time and feed.

Having been in and out several times in the past 30 years I'd say do what works for you; mostly less than 10 but one time went up to 30...."Different strokes for different folks", as the tv series went.

We wanted to get back in animals spring of '11 and bought a couple of nice black heifers from a neighbor at about 500#. Got to working on what to do with them and settled on buying a bull to keep with them; preferred that to other breeding options. Seemed to be what would work best for us.

They are pets and serve as enjoyment and satisfy the Advalorem Tax requirement for Farm land. The calves will go to the local producer from whom we bought the animals which happens to be the guy to whom I sold my herd when I got out of the business a couple of years ago and went to set-a-side on my land.

Called the guy one night for a Brangus bull and the next day when we picked him up, he said that it was good I called when I did as that he was scheduled to be a steer that very day!!!!! Found he is the last of the Brangus thoroughbred offspring from what I sold him a couple of years earlier. Lucky day as he has turned out to be a gorgeous animal and extremely devoted to his job, and true to the breed gentle and even tempered.

I cannot make money on a cow calf operation and do not choose to go through the buy 'em young at the barn and sell them a year later. Just doesn't fit our life style. If that works for you great! So, I am not filing a Schedule F this year.

We figure the money we spend on these babies is our "entertainment" money that we could have spent at like $600 for a couple of nights whooping it up in Dallas and Monday morning it all would be gone.....What's in that?

My 2c,

Mark