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Bad Tractors from the major manufacturers

Tom in Mo.

Tom in Mo.

Well-known Member
I'm curious now. Has Oliver or MM or Case ever built a tractor with a bad reputation?
For instance, JD had the 2010 that they spent $$$ on trying to repair and re-engineer. IH had the 560 that kept blowing out rearends. Ford had the Selectospeed that was released a little too soon and the early 6000. Any others that didn't make the cut?
 
The only thing I know about the three in your question is about Case. I was at the parts counter at a Case Dealership and overheard first hand a guy trying to get parts for a new tractor and the parts guy saying he couldn't help him. He told the guy that if CNH decided a model wasn't selling like it should they would discontinue the parts before they even stopped production of the model.

In 1987 I bought a small kubota tractor that was being discontinued. I worried about parts but I can still to kubota and get any mechanical parts for it. Understandably I have to order them but usually only takes a couple of days.

In about 2005 I bought a John Deere 2210 tractor that had some problem with the rear axle. It made a loud popping noise and I returned it to the dealer and wouldn't fix it. They just kept it for a couple of weeks and gave it back to me. I contacted John Deere directly many times and they would not return my letters. I finally just stopped making the payments and made them repo it.
 
Actually Allis had a history of popping out of gear issues from guys trying to shift on the go. And yes the 190 was known for tranny troubles.

Rick
 
It was never an issue in this area as well Allan.

There were 6 or 7 560's in this area( some turboed and putting out over 80 HP) all pulling 4-16 plows and one was even pulling 5-14's and not a one of them ever had a rear end rebuild.

The first time I had even heard of a problem was on this site about 5 years ago. Before that no one talked of a rear end issue here in my area.

Gary
 
I have to agree with Allan and Gary on this one. My Dad brought a 560D in 1964 that I still have and use that still has the original rearend. Pulled 4X14 model 16 plow, 14' field cultivator and14' tandom disc in ground that went from sandy to gumbo in Ashkum township in iroquois co. Il. Also a lot of hours powering a John Deere # 6 corn sheller. The orignal owner traded it in with a farmall F 30 hooked to it with a tandom tractor hitch and 5X16 # 70 IH plow hook to it. That was and still is a good tractor. Armand
 
I have a JD 2010 gas which runs fine. I have seen JD 2010 diesels parted out and all 3 had cracked blocks. I believe the trouble was the diesel blocks. But, we all know abusing a machine leads to breakdowns, and some owners simply abuse their machines. If it breaks, they blame the machine, not the abuse. On the other hand, I do not like machines that are difficult to work on. I would agree the JD 2010 is not as easy to work on as other models.
 
You said your tractor was a 1964,by then the problem had been fixed.There were three different rearend updates.The very first tractors had alot of problems.They did get it fixed and the later tractors had no problems.After the problem was found many new tractors were updated at the dealer before being sold and many other tractors were changed when brought to the dealer for other reasons.Many of the updates were made without customer knowing it.This was told to me by a retired IH dealer.
 
My dad had one of the first ford 6000. It was junk. Lesson I learned, NEVER buy anything that is the first edition. The costomer always seem to do the R&D. Wait for the bugs to get worked out.
 
Allan, They did too...the 1st ones out with basically an unimproved M rear...the cost of replacing all those broke rears with the new heavier duty one was what started IH"s decline. Most if not all ya see around now have the redesigned rears in them that"s why they aren"t breaking now. Not hogwash!
 
wasn't the allis 7000 not such a good tractor - lots of tranny issues?
never owned one but over the years a couple of neighbors have had them as massive paper weights.
also MF 1085 seems to get some bad press...blown head gaskets...have a 1080 and advice i've seen and adhered to is to use it as a 65 horse tractor rather than as an 80...
 
I remember being in an IH dealer's shop once ('90's) and seeing a big IH, like a 14XX sitting there with all it's guts out of the rear end. I was impressed by the way the main casting was protected from rust with some kind of painted coating. I was in there to purchase some plow points.

Mark
 
More on the 560 issue,the problem would occure when
a tractor was over weighted to pull alarge load -
turbo or not.the rear wheels MUST slip a
little.There were afew AC 190s that did that.Any
tractor will 'shell'the rear end if it you "tie it
hard"to the ground.Steve
 
Mark, that was NOT a rust protectant, they were full of oil so not much chance to rust. That was gypthol (sp?) a sealer to close the porosity of the cast iron so it wouldn't wick through the cases and affect the paint on the outside.
 
190XT, series I and II had rear end issues. Many were upgraded under factory warranty to Series III when that one came out.
 
My scources have told me that the early 560 used a ball bearing(I believe that it was the differential carrier bearing,but I'm mot totally sure) that would not stand up to a load(bearing failed then the gears went crunch).They updated to a tapered roller bearing which solved the problem.Steve
 
Allen, around here in southern Michigan there were several farmers in the late 1950's and early 1960's who had rear end troubles with their big Farmalls starting with M's and Super M's right on through the early 460's and 560's. I honestly think it was partly because they started using bigger tires (13-38's and 15.5-38's) and dualing them up along with engine soup-up kits. Most of the trouble was that inner axle bearing failing and that caused gear teeth spalling and other expensive failures. Some guys thought it was the using light weight lubricant in the rear ends. They broke a lot of cast wheel centers too if they used snap-ons. Anyhow a lot of low hour tractors had to have their rearends rebuilt and the big Farmalls got a bad reputation because of it. Some early 560's had troubles with their power steering systems too.
Interestingly enough, some John Deere 4010's had some rear end and transmission troubles too...and the early John Deere powershifts didn't take it too well when you turned up the fuel pumps and/or added turbo's to get extra power....neither did the engines if you didn't put on a larger oil pan and keep track of the oil level closely. A lot of yellow paint was sold to paint lemons on some tractors of all colors in those days.
 
Honestly, any Oliver with a turbo'd 310 (1855, 1955) that hasn't been updated with new rods and an oil cooler is a time bomb. Once they're updated they're a solid engine, though. Also, the 70's had a reputation for burning out exhaust manifolds (from what I understand), that's why you sometimes see an updated one with 2 exhaust pipes.
 
Tell that to anyone who worked at an IH dealer back then....Maybe they'll believe it, probably they'll NOT believe it. There were so many 560's chucking rear ends, many dealers had to set up tents outside of their shops to work on the overflow.
 

I have read plenty of negatives about the articulation joints of all of the International 2+2 models, and that they were a big drain on International.
 
According to "A CORPORATE TRAGEDY" by Barbara
Marsh, IHC recalled the 560's because of weak
rearends after the updates, It became a very good
tractor. This recall hit the co. hard financially
and contributed to the end of IHC.

Wikipedia says 4 5 &660s were recalled but as I
remember Barbara's book said only 560's were
recalled.
60 Series recall
In July 1958, IH launched a major campaign to
introduce a new line of tractors to revitalize
slumping sales. At the Hinsdale, Illinois Testing
Farm, IH entertained over 12,000 dealers from over
25 countries. IH showed off their new "60" series
of tractors: including the big, first-of-its-kind,
six-cylinder 460 and 560 tractors. But the joy of
the new line of tractors was short lived. One of
the first events that would eventually lead to the
downfall of IH presented itself in 1959. In June
of that year, IH recalled the 460, 560, and 660
tractors: final drive components had failed. IH,
who wanted to be the first big-power manufacturer,
had failed to drastically update the final drives
on the new six-cylinder tractors. These final
drives were essentially unchanged from 1939 and
would fail rapidly under the stress of the more
powerful 60-series engines. IH's competitors took
advantage of the recall, and IH would lose
customers in the ensuing months,[8] with many
customers moving to John Deere's New Generation of
Power tractors introduced in 1960.
 
I remember reading in a farm magazine back in 1984 how the 2+2 broke IH. But I'd still take a 2+2 over the worst ever..... a Ford 6000.
 
couldn't agree with You more...as a longtime pilot, the old addage says, "never fly the A model of anything"!
 
190 and 190XT had final drive issues. There is quite a few 7000's around here everybody likes them especially the 3 speed torque. If you horse the gear shifter you can break the reverse shifting fork. It is possible to weld it back and weld a brace on it without taking the tractor apart. (from experience) Vic
 
Steve, that was what I was told as well. A fellow I used to work with in a Deere shop used to work at an International dealer when the 60 series tractors were new. According to him the failures were becoming more common. When he found that ball bearing setup in the tractors he found a tapered bearing and race that would work. Apparently the International folks came to look at his "fix" and adopted it for production. I make no guarantee of this information but this is how it was told to me. Mike
 
Allen, we had a neighbor who had a turboed 560 that he pulled 5-16's with all day long, but I don't know how deep. The other neighbor across the fence had a turned up non-torboed 4020 that couldn't pull the same size plow any faster. Another neighbor bought a used turboed 560 that had 108 HP on the dyno. The keyways in the axles were chipped away from the high torque load but they didn't have any rear end trouble. It did concern me when I found out how much power was put to those little axles. It was a fun tractor to drive, kind of like a hot rod. Jim
 
Oliver bought a few and made a few. The 1250 four cylinder made by Fiat was a disaster. The later 3 cylinders were OK. The 310 in the 1855 as it came from the factory was the other one. It could be MADE in to a decent engine,but in it's original configuration as a turboed diesel in the 1855,not so much.
 
445 and 5 Star Molines, were pretty bad also. The hyd on all models was prone to trouble. The trouble is that the valve that shuttles oil first to the valve you are using, gets hot and expands and doesn't center after you are done using it. Gets even hotter and ruins the hyd pump and hardens all the seals and o-rings. A simple fix is a hyd gauge on the dash. You can see the pressure hasn't relaxed. A little blip of the lever will center it. All first torques were junk. The sprag bearing that held the sun gears for low gear wasn't up to the task. We put new gears in every trans of every 5 Star. Put new bull pinions and ring and pinions in every 445 and 5 Star. and most M5's Also put new seals in every 445 and 5 Star 3 point cyl. and most 4 star's and M5's Did very little engine work, except making them bigger. If Moline had just up-dated ZB and UB Specials. would have stayed a little longer. Vic
 
Oliver 1855 got a pretty bad rep. Tarnished its reputation pretty
bad. They needed an extra oil cooler similar to the 1955.
 
My dad bought an AC 7000 ion 1977. He had it 9 years and the only problem he ever had was with batteries not lasting over 2 years.
 
(quoted from post at 09:58:30 01/28/12) Honestly, any Oliver with a turbo'd 310 (1855, 1955) that hasn't been updated with new rods and an oil cooler is a time bomb. Once they're updated they're a solid engine, though. Also, the 70's had a reputation for burning out exhaust manifolds (from what I understand), that's why you sometimes see an updated one with 2 exhaust pipes.
Click to expand...
jordan, we had a 70 from the day it was new until the day it was scrapped and never had a manifold problem. we put dual exhaust on it because it was cheaper than buying the muffler, plus we liked the way it sounded. oh and that tractor had a lot of hours on it. chuck
 
Hi Larry Neil: You have a good point about "A" models. Even the very early P-51s had wing failures in the main spar near the center section. (Can't fly with one side gone..) The very early Beach Musketere also had wing failures.. etc By the way, my best flight ever was in a later D model P-51. Five simulated strafing runs from 5,000agl to below tree tops. Amazing how fast the earth comes up toward you at 250mph, when pointed straight down. Had 4G pullouts and 275 when on target. Very smooth and solid feeling as a fast moving gun platform even without heavy military combat load. Air noise level was VERY loud even with standard headsets. ...but the wings stayed on. ag
 
never drove a 70 but I always thought they were known as one of
oliver's best. I would agree that they arent problematic.
 
Okaye. Makes sense. We used sealers on castings where I worked for the same reason. It still apparently kept the rust down, that stuff that condensation causes and dirties your hyd. fluid prematurely. I compared that to the auto industry. Course tractors are made to last decades, cars a few years.

Thanks for the info.

Mark
 

As I recall from discussing it with a dealer, the Ford 6000 problems were: Hydraulic system had a poor filter system and a small amount of dirt would clog it up. One hydraulic pump powered the PS as well as the implement hydraulics. The Selec-to-speed gave it's usual problems. The engine was reworked six cylinder gas truck engine. The bearings were not large enough.

Everybody said they were a pleasure to drive when things worked right.

KEH
 
Tons of misinformation out there about the IH
recall. They never went to the dealer and said, bring
so and so's tractor in right now. They were
repaired on a fix as fail basis and as time
allowed. It took me a year to get
all ten of them done that we had out that
qualified. There were additional improvements
after that, including "improved crowned tapered
roller bearings on the differential", flat bower
roller bearings for inner axle and pinion bearing,
improved outer axle bearing, improved lubrication
to differential and bull pinion bearing tubes.
Yes, it hurt IH sales, but I get a kick out of the
"recall" bit like they do on cars etc now days.
Didn't happen. Some dealers took the option to
have co. personnel do the updating, therefore some
tents may have gone up. We did all our own. Gave
me a lot of experience. For the 2+2, they had
issues but nothing that the co. went to any real
length on. Had some early updates, front axle was
one along with changing electrical wiring to a
heavy fuses wires through the pivot area plus
rerouting hydraulic hoses etc. Far as other
makes and models, well , first John Deere 4010
diesel here in town, went out in the back shop
across town and had the leaking head gasket
replaced so customers wouldn't see it. Allis,
those 190xt's were a real gem. Case had ongoing
final drive improvements at the time they merged
with IH. Most customers turned down the offer
around here as they had to cover a lot of the
expense themself. I could go on and on but
enough.
 
tom, how about the ford 8000? my brother bought one new and had a lot of problems, engine needed to be rebuilt without that many hours of use, then the dual power went bad, then the paint in the trans and rear came off and ruined most everything in there and cost more to fix than the tractor was worth, traded on an oliver 2150 and never looked back. chuck
 
I'm surprised some wag hasn't brought up the Ford N Series. We all know the Ns killed more farmers than there were troops killed at the battles of Verdun and the Somme combined.
 
They all had their failures but the 560 cost IH much more than any other model cost its respective manufacturer. Obviously everybody had their own valid experience but the 560 does not have many boosters at least locally. It did not help that Deere with the New Generation and Oliver with the 1600/ 1800 tractors put IH at a competitive disadvantage almost overnight.
 
From what I have heard people say back in the day was there was a lot of mis-marketing with the N series. Sure they were a plowing fool but they lacked the chassis weight to hold on the hills with a load and at the same time to have enough tail to pull big loads up the hill. A lot of guys wanted something to cultivate fairly tall crops which was easier with the row crop tractors. Also, a lot of the sales numbers came from areas other than farm use such as municipal which made them unique for that time.
 
I have a hard time with that. I think a N Ford was a milestone tractor. Like a IHC M and a 4010 JD . Practically every farmer had one when I was a kid, no-matter what other brand they had. Vic
 
I think you have confused the Ford N with the old Fordson. I was raised on a 9N. We had a Deere H and a 9N. My dad always cauthioned me about the Deere H rearing up. The old Fordson was notorious for rearing up and falling backwards. That was before Ford teamed up with Ferguson. The 9N came out in 1939 and was the beginning of the modern tractor.
 
I bought a Kubota new in 89. I have put 3 new batteries on it. That is all, still running the original fan belt.
 
My dad's first red 6000 was so bad, ford took back the tractor and gave him a new blue 6000. Issues were in the tranny.
 
Re: IH 560. My girlfriend's father bought a new 560 in 1958 or 1959 that I cultivated with (4 row front-mounted) in the summer. I remember how long that hood looked after having previously run an H and a M. Anyhow, that fall pulling a new 4 bottom semi-mounted plow, the rearend went out (I don't know what went wrong) and the dealer gave him a M with a 3 bottom plow to use until it was fixed.

al
 
I think Ultradog was being sarcastic. There's a few on here that think having an N series is like having a death wish. Every modern tractor with a 3 point hitch is a descendant of the N series.
 
Sorry, but federal law requires a manufacturer to make make parts available for a certain number of years. That's why you can still get parts for Long/Agtrac. Sounds to me like someone ticked off the parts guy, or the parts guy was just lazy.
 
(quoted from post at 08:51:50 01/28/12) Allan, They did too...the 1st ones out with basically an unimproved M rear...the cost of replacing all those broke rears with the new heavier duty one was what started IH"s decline. Most if not all ya see around now have the redesigned rears in them that"s why they aren"t breaking now. Not hogwash!
Click to expand...

Yes, hogwash.

They did not *KEEP* blowing rear ends. IF the rear end "blew" it blew ONCE. Once it was fixed, it was fixed.
 
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