Had to punt yesterday...

Long post - please bear with me.
Finally getting my barn/garage started. Started digging for footers... ran into garbage. All the luck, found an old bury pit. Big one. Still hadn"t found bottom at 10 ft and it was getting wider too.

So, not gonna put the shop there. Unfortunately, this was the "planned" are when I originally laid out the house, drive, pond, etc. Moving it 20 or 30 ft away from there doesn"t work. Pole type construction would yield same issues. Original plans were for a 28x36 building.

Looking at a few options and was looking for input/experience from you all.

Need:
Dry tractor storage or shelter - 2 bays (2 tractors).
Shop space - light wood working, tractor/ car maintenance and repair, tool storage for work, etc.
Dry storage or shelter for couple lawnmowers, log splitter, tiller, etc.

I have the ability to add on to existing garage/shop (its insulated and attached to house)but not enough to take care of all the above - would be about 22x28. Also have the ability to put a 28x36 about 350 ft away from current garage/shop (original location was about 35 ft away...). As well, can also put up a small lean-to or shed in various spots.

Pros/cons of splitting these up? Really don"t like running back and forth between them to get tools, or stringing electric too far, etc.

Also, any other thoughts are welcome.

Thanks guys.

Tony

Don't ask me. I'm in the same boat as you. I've got stakes out on my place of where everything is going and they're getting moved every weekend from me trying to get it just right.

I'd Keep it all close myself. dry/lockable shop with room to work comfortably on the biggest vehicle (DD) you have and park the tractors in a leanto shed. If possible, all visable and sprint distance from the house.

That's just me.....

Keeping the work areas together will be much better. Sometimes that doesn't work. I work on my motorcycles at my house, and trucks, and tractors at my shop. I do a lot of walking between the house and shop, because seams like there is always something I don't have. It is about a block, but the exercise is good for me, and am glad I can still do it. You may check the garbage pit for old bottles. Get some bottle collectors, and they may dig the pit out for you looking for old bottles. Stan

Way back in 1984 my dad ran into a water table too high to use traditional footers for his garage. The builder said they could form and pour a "floating foundation" and it was in specs for the local building code. The down side was that he had to build up the driveway 18" to reach the floor level. It worked out ok as he chose a low area on his property. After all of these years the floor is still free of cracks. I don't know if it is still an acceptable practice to use this type but it may be worth a shot to check. The design uses the same fundamentals that are used in bridge building such as the Brooklyn Bridge.

Man oh man ! Don't ya hate it when a plan doesn't come together ? You say you originally wanted a 28'x36'? You will learn that it won't be large enough after a few months , believe me . In the early 70s I built mine that exact size with a second floor for my woodshop & my potty . I was dumbfounded to see how quickly I ran out of room . If I could do it all over again , I build it in a different location of my yard & make it no smaller than 36' deep x 40' wide . Now in your case with the garbage piy , would it be possible to dig some or all of the garbage area out ? Then drill holes a bit large for the vertical poles . Then after setting all the verticles , cement those in . Then backfill to make the ground level ? If the verticles aren't tall enough , you can add to them by scabbing steel plates onthe butt joint . I saw a similar job done for a nursing home . Once all materials are fastened together , it should be a solid structure . HTH ! God bless, Ken

not sure of your local building codes but here in MT most standalone shops are built on the floating slab idea. I believe they call it a monolithic slab when the outer edges are thicker and they the main floor is another thickness. Most of the either wood framed or metal framed buildings that I know of are built this way. My metal framed shop had specs for the thickness of the outer 1-2 feet of the slab with pillars underneath the columns. My building is about 12 years old and does have a crack in the floor that is really small and if I remember right it might have shown up the first winter. My shop is 48*60 and I am always wanting it bigger. Next one is gonna be 50*100 or larger if the checkbook can stand it.

Ken...

That was similar to our original thought yesterday. Got to about 10 ft down and the pit was getting wider and deeper. Sides were caving in. We were at 15 ft x 15 ft wide and no end in sight. Pumped probably a hundred gallons of water out of it. Ran some quick numbers with getting a drill rig in there and concrete... ouch.

Thanks for the input though... best we can figure is it was an old ravine that got filled when they cleared for the field.

Wow... good replies already.

I've been thinking on the floating foundation. Haven't ruled it out yet. Not seen one here in the midwest, but sounds like its being done in Ohio so that's good.

Security really isn't an issue here thankfully. Really trying to keep it all in one, but don't know if I can make it happen.

Pit is covered up now, but no way we were going down there. Sides kept caving.

Keep the ideas coming.

Thanks guys.

Tony

Floating slab seems the way to go in that situation.

Whether you go floating or some other method - have you considered heating the shop?

A lot of people forget the importance (and cost) of rigid insulation under the cement.

Makes a big difference if you're trying to keep the shop warm though.

My first thoughts about this are what happens if you do this and get a methane build-up from building over or close to an old dump.

If the dump is pre 1900 there may be valuable bottles in there, that may help pay for your barn.
List them on Ebay.

I don't know your house site, but why not build your shop out about 20-30 ft from your present shop, so a simple roof between the two sometime later would make you another store when the new one gets full?
I once worked for a digging contractor, we went to do the work for a new car show-room and hit an old dump,just like you did. All work had to stop until a guy with some sort of qualifications and stinking strong after-shave/perfume came to watch me dig 3 test holes.He got £800 for recommending for us to dig holes under where the posts would be and vibrate in fine 1/4 inch broken rock.( his engineering degree insisted we call them stools!) We had to vibrate it every 6 inches,then dig a foundation 18inches wide around the top and case in a floor slab with the sides 12 inches deep and the floor 8 inches,we also put some reinforcing bars around the edge supporting ring. That was 27 years ago,the floor of the showroom was tiled on top of the slab and it is still good.

If you still select that site it may prove costly,you may have to sink pylons down into firm ground, but for small buildings I think they use treated pine posts,economically it would be cheaper to select another firm site.Saw workmen sinking the pine posts in a dried up watercourse to erect a unit for the aged,not my choice of position.

Expense goes up when you encounter unsuitable material like that, and you really want to use the footprint of the building you want on that site. That expense being an issue, maybe some test bores are in order to really see what you are dealing with ?

Without going to traditional pile clusters and or similar to suitable soil bearing layer or bedrock, and being the type of building you describe, a stronger, structural type slab may suffice with say some additional support like one of these helical type piles ? There is a dealer near me, I used to see them 2x a day going by their shop and yard. They are steel, hot dipped galvanized with auger like flighting, and these look very cost effective, might be enough to support a slab or structure and get you that building where you want it, take a look at the details in the attached link.
Techno Metal Post

Dig it out and start hauling crushed stone or if you can get ground up concrete works good also. Compact it as you go and you should be able to set footings on it. Around here we use granite dust. It is the tiniest part left when they crush granite. If unsure, have a compaction test done and they will tell you if it is a go or not. Done it a few times and has worked out.

The caisson design is what I was referring to in bridge construction. I couldn't think of the word yesterday.(brain fart)