duals vs single

Don-Wi · Apr 7, 2012

Here's a question in line with spring planting-

What would the difference be between using our Oliver 1600 w/ 15.5-38's, weighs a little over 7000 lbs, or our Massey 285 w/ 18.4-34 & duals that weighs somewhere around 10,500-11,000 lbs on the grain drill. Once the feild settles down I never really notice any difference in tire tracks or anything, just wondering out loud here.

I always plant with the 1600, but the 285 goes on the drill if my dad plants (that's his favorite tractor) or if the 16 is doing something else.

Donovan from Wisconsin

RayP(MI) · Apr 7, 2012

I like to use duals, and spread the load as much as I can in soft soil.

JDseller · Apr 7, 2012

Can you turn with the duals on without hitting the drill tongue???? Plus a grain drill does not pull hard and the lighter tractor will do the job.

buickanddeere · Apr 7, 2012

A set of duals aired up too tight can pack the soil more than a low psi single.

JMS/.MN · Apr 8, 2012

I simply can"t relate to the question....for decades, all three field tractors are dualed before Spring work- whether tillage, planting,or pulling someone out! With your options, it might be a wash. With me, if the big one gets stuck, no way a smaller one with singles will pull it out. One year I thought I could get by with singles on the planter tractor....you know how that worked out! Takes only one spot. I built straddle duals for the planter tractor- they all run between the rows....planting, spraying, whatever. And yes, they have been needed.

JMS/.MN · Apr 8, 2012

If that is an issue, just make another round around the field....wider end rows, and make a "light bulb" turn instead of a sharp 180. Something tells me I"m not telling you anything new- you"ve been around for awhile! Actually it"s something I had to learn when I downsized from an 830 planter to a 630....downsized to rent most of the farm to a good neighbor.

hoosierhog · Apr 8, 2012

I'm assuming you have a conventional drill. I've seen a lot of
people pull a full jd FBB drill with a 30hp tractor or less. So
you don't need lots of power or weight or duals I'd use the
lighter tractor and save your self the work of putting the duals
off and on. I pull a full Oliver superior drill Modle 64 with a
farmall M and a ford 4000 no duals needed. Now if you
wanted to pull a notill drill then you need some hp. I've been
wanting to upgde drills and from what I've been told my 1850
with duals and weights won't pull a full notill drill.

VADAVE · Apr 8, 2012

Here's the technicals: 15.5 X 38 means the contact patch is about 1.3 feet wide by 1 foot long (assumption) and the 18.4 X 34 is 1.5 feet by 1 foot. So the 1600 contact patchs total 2.6 sq ft or 2692 psf and the Massey has 6 sq ft contact patch and at 11,000 lb has 1833 psf. The Massey has spread the load better and has less weight per-square-foot and therefore less compaction.
I find I only have an issue when I have tilled the ground. The tractor tracks do not get dicsed in and I deal with those till I plow again. My 1655 with 18.4 X 34 pulling a planter or drill doesn't leave the same depth track and it doesn't last all year.
Discing I with either the 1855 or 2255 the dual are on.

buickanddeere · Apr 8, 2012

Simpler yet. If the tire(s) are inflated to 18psi then the pressure on the ground is approx 18psi. If the tire(s) are inflated to 6psi, the pressure on the ground is 6psi.

Ken Macfarlane · Apr 8, 2012

And if the soil is slimy on top, a light tractor on duals or really wide singles won't pull very hard. Needs to get the lugs pressed in.

We put 650mm x 34 metrics (they are bit over 24" wide) on our 100 hp MF and without weight on the rear it can be a bit funny.

Don't need duals on wet ground though!

spanky · Apr 8, 2012

So if the tire psi is 0 then ground pressure is 0psi? And if the tires are at 40 psi then ground is 40 psi? You don't make sense.

Don-Wi · Apr 8, 2012

I should add our planter is a Van Brunt FB (20-7" I think), so we go round & round and don't trip the lift until done planting. Once close to being done in the middle I make a trip down & back on the corners to stitch them in. I've been doing most of the planting the last 10 years or so.

We've also used our Massey 165 on the drill in the past. HP is definatly not a factor for us.

Donovan from Wisconsin

Leroy · Apr 8, 2012

Depends on drill. I think your tractor is bigger than a 5000 Ford and neighbor pulled a 10' Great plains with the Ford. He has gone up to a 12-15' drill now. When I was farming hills I was looking at a 7' for behind my 5000, and was told it did not have enough power as was told they needed to be pulled faster than 6 mph, he pulled that 10' at about 4 mph and said it did better at slower planting speeds and way less power needed.

Texasmark1 · Apr 8, 2012

Ditto. PSI of the tractor on the ground is the area of the contact and the weight of the tractor, Wt in lbs/Area in sq. in. Has nothing to do with how much air is in the tires, other than the amount of air could change the shape of the tire, hence the ground contact area and thus change the PSI on the ground. The pressure in the tire is against the wheel and the tire, not the ground.

Mark

Anonymous-0 · Apr 8, 2012

Somewhat similar situation, but we choose between a MF 285 and the bigger MM 1050. The MF 18.4-34 tires are loaded for loader work and requires a 3pt track eraser to do a decent job. The MM is a power overkill but with unloaded 18-38 duals doesn't require the 3pt scratcher. I would use the tractor which makes the least tire impression.

spanky · Apr 8, 2012

Well said Mark. The psi in the tire is equal all around the tire NOT JUST ON THE BOTTOM!

Texasmark1 · Apr 8, 2012

Yessssss!

Texasmark1 · Apr 8, 2012

That would only be as a result of the square inches the tires present to the soil. Course there is reason in your logic and that could be that the reduction in square inches due to the overinflation could reduce the area and hence increase the actual PSI and sink deeper in soft soil but considering singles vs duals and over inflation.....stretching the imagination.....but it's still Pounds/square inches.

Mark

mkirsch · Apr 8, 2012

What's so hard to understand about the question?

Which is better?

1. A 7000lb tractor with singles

2. A 11,000lb tractor with duals

Ultimately it's a matter of which tractor puts fewer pounds per square inch to the ground.

The 11,000lb tractor is 57% heavier, but it has more than 100% more "contact patch."

157% of the weight, and 200% of the contact patch = 78%

The PSI to the ground on the 11,000lb tractor with duals will be no more than 78% of the 7000lb tractor with singles.

buickanddeere · Apr 8, 2012

You can't have 0 psi in a tire bearing weight........ How did you come up with a 0 psi concept?

buickanddeere · Apr 8, 2012

Sorry spanky and mark but you both failed basic physics 101.

Texasmark1 · Apr 9, 2012

I don't know where you got your education nor references but you are the one that needs to get out the text books.

Mark

mkirsch · Apr 9, 2012

(quoted from post at 19:56:05 04/08/12) Sorry spanky and mark but you both failed basic physics 101.

No, YOU failed basic physics 101, or you're playing semantics.

duals vs single

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