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6 volt issues

B

Brad Metcalf

Member
Before we get to far I do not want to switch to 12 volt Thanks Im having trouble with the tractor starting, new battery (1000 cca) rebuilt starter 2/0 cables When i check volts @ the battery 6.30 volts push button 6.30 volts the other side of button when pushed 4.50 it is a new switch ( at least 3) to make sure. Any thoughts Thanks
 
No it does not get hot I have changed the switch 3 times still the same every once an awhile it will start fine then start acting up
 

I had same problem with my DC so this is what I did and it has been working fine for me ever since. The first thing i did was make sure my NEG battery cable was just as big as my POS and then shined the metal under the connection point to make sure I had a great connection. Then I took the starter out and made sure that it was nice and polished so that it's case made great contact with the engine as that is how the current gets back to the battery. Once I took all apart and polished it up and put back together she cranks like the best of them. I think my main problem was the starter was not good and grounded to the engine. Hope that helps
 
Sounds like you've gotten 3 bad switches...NO WAY you should have a 2.3 volt drop just across the switch. THAT indicates resistance in the switch...WAY too much resistance, by the voltage drop you're experiencing.
 
One thing I did, was connect the battery ground strap directly TO the starter mounting bolt. Not a nearby bolt. Eliminates all resistance elsewhere, and mine really spins now.
 
Brad, the 00 cables and new switch and that heavy battery (Ifffff allllllll connections and grounds are clean n tight) should eliminate all but the starter as the problem. (I agree with try grounding right at the starter)

My standard thoughts are if when trying to start the voltage dont drop much (lights dont dim down hardly) the problem is either a bad switch or a bad connection (assuming battery and all else is okay)

HOWEVER if the lights dim way down and the voltage drops drastically, that tells me the cables n connections and switch are alllllll good, so the high current draw must be from a faulty starter. Such as a partly shorted armature or the armature is dragging or a brush is somehow shorted

If the battery voltage drops drastically that means theres good enough connections and good enough switching allowing such a high current draw which must be casued by the starter or another short somewhere

NOTE I may have misunderstood your post?? If youre getting a voltage drop of 2 volts ACROSS THE SWITCH that means the switch is bad. The voltages I mentioned above are battery voltages. For the battery to drop 2 volts there has to be a good current draw which means the switch and cables n conenctions must all be okay, buttttttttt if the switch drops 2 volts ACROSS IT the switch n NOT the starter is at fault

John T
 
With 1000cca, the voltage drop is worrisome. The starter, on first cold start should draw about 350 amps for an H Farmall, and 425 or so for an M.
Every auto store sells a starter draw meter for less than $20.
To determine if your switch is causing the issue you need to measure across it with the volt meter (might be the 2 volt setting, because you are measuring drop, not battery volts. Another way of doing this is to measure cranking voltage across the battery when cranking, and then at the starter to ground when cranking. If they match, and are both in the 4.5 range, then one of three things are wrong. The new battery is not charged, and or not good (been there). or the starter is dragging, (rebuilt is defined by the rebuilder) or the engine timing is advanced and the combustion pressure is causing it to be very difficult to push over TDC.
The Amp meter mentioned above is a sure detective in this search. Jim
 
I just unhooked the starter and checked the volts at the switch and it is at 6.30 same as the battery. So the starter is the problem??
 
No, the switch will not have voltage drop if there is no current through it. The current is either in excess of the switches capacity, or the switch is bad.

How would it crank with the spark plugs out?
 
With respect, John-T is a lawyer. He has license to spell any way he wants (probably legalese). He is emphasizing (rather individualistically) the importance of those multi-letter words. Hundreds of readers will support his right to do this. Jim
 
A quick redneck way to check if the switch is good or not is to take a 3/4" wrench or close size and mash it against the two big terminals on the back of the switch. Push it against the terminals HARD AND QUICK to avoid as much arcing as possible. If the switch is bad, this should make the starter spin if the starter is good. Don't do it for long if you don't want a blue wrench. I have done this trick to start a semi-tractor when the solenoid took a dump. Jim
 
It should be unbelievable with the plugs out. So read my post carefully and check the voltage drop across the switch while cranking. Purchase one of those meters, they are an analytical tool of great value that are cheap. Jim
 
As "I think Jim is saying", there should be no voltage drop across the switch with the plugs out. There is either excess current or a bad switch.

Does it crank with plugs in and ignition off? This would indicate timing to advanced if it cranked good this way and bad with the ignition on.
 
You need 1ga cab;es and run the ground to the starter or else make sure the ground connection is shinny but the 1ga are the best. They do make a cable for battery use and you can solder the ends. Welding cable is not the best thats why they make cable for battery use.
 
probably not your problem,but i put a rebuilt starter on an m years ago it would turn it over decent for about 3 rounds then start slowing down, nothing i tried seemed to help even hooked to 12 volts same problem,i noticed it was hard to turn before i installed it,pulled it back off turned ok by hand but was still tight,i loosened the 2 bolts a little that hold the starter together it freed up a lot, noticed the gap between end plate and field housing was wider on one than the other,the rebuild end plate had been bored out of line when being bored to accept and oversize bushing,replaced it with another one problem solved
 
putting in bold print capitals would be doing the same thing and that is for you to notice those words and not noticing and paying attention is a sure fire way to change a meaning.
 
Computer is fine, its just my own personal style and means of adding emphasis to certain words.....

John T
 
A good full charged 6 volt battery should be around 6.3 volts. If youre dropping 2 volts ACROSS the start switch, its badddddddddd.

If the BATTERY voltage drops 2 volts while cranking the cables n connections n grounds are likely okay and Id suspect the starter.

If the cranking is poor but the battery voltage isnt droppjg much while cranking, then I suspect a bad switch (esp if 2 volts drop ACROSS it) or bad cables, connections or grounds.

See my post below for more details

John T
 
If the battery voltage isnt dropping much while cranking but she cranks poorly, I suspect a bad/resistive switch or cables or connections or grounds.

If the battery voltage drops drastically while cranking then I suspect the switch n cables n connections are okay so maybe the starter is at fault.

If youre dropping a lot of voltage (like 2 volts) ACROSS THE SWITCH while crankign I suspect the switch is bad.

See my post below for more details

John T
 
There shouldnt be much voltage drops ACROSS the switch (i.e. about same with respect to ground on BOTH sides) when its closed or else its bad/resistive.

If the battery voltage drops drastically while cranking (like to 4 volts) the switch n cables n connections n grounds are likely okay but the starter may be at fault.

If the battery voltage dont change much while cranking but she cranks poor, the cables or switch or connections or grounds may be at fault

Read my original post below for help

John T
 
2.0 cables aren't big enough. Remember when running 6 volts you use twice the amps that a twelve volt system would use. My IHC H did that and it was the starter. cranks good with a new starter. I've been running it for years with just the 6 volt system. also remember any connection that gets hot is a loose or bad connection. touch them after you crank the engine a little and see if they get hot.
 
No. 2 Gauge are SMALLER then I recommend, HOWEVER 00 Gauge (i.e. Double 0) are plenty big enough for most old 6 volt tractor applications. Factory original on many (depends on size of tractor) old 6 volt tractors was more like a 1 Gauge or maybe O Gauge, so 00 ought to do the trick........

John T
 
Brad,I feel your pain, very recently went through very similar trouble on my '40 IHC H. New everything and all the sudden nothing but a small click when starter button was pushed, there was a notable voltage drop on starter side of switch when this happened. My problem turned out to be a bad spot on the flywheel ring gear. I assume the starter drive got hung up in the teeth of the the ring gear?? I'm not sure. The crank start thru shaft is seized in the bolster housing on my tractor, so just turning the engine a little to get away from the bad spot on the ring gear requires me to pull off the starter, then use a flat tipped bar to turn the engine over a bit by prying on the flywheel ring gear through the starter hole in bell housing to get past the bad spot, re-install the starter, and it is good to go...till the next time it shuts off with worn spot in line with the starter, does'nt happen very often, but it was a real pain till I figured it out. Might be worth looking at....Tom
 
What tractor Brad?
Does it have a manual push button or a solenoid?
You say when you push the switch, you get 4 volts on the starter side?
What do you have on the battery side when the button is pushed? The same?
 
Change out the starter drive on that tractor to fix the issue with the locking starter. 95% cure rate. New style cushion pinion drive with very small spring. Not expensive. Jim
 
Simple example.Place one test lead of your volt meter on a battery post.The other lead on the battery cable.try starter, any small indication says you have a poor connection.I have had connection so tight it took a puller to get the cable off but the starter wouldnt work.GM side connect batteries are well know for poor connections.Bolt on battery cable ends are junk, famous for bad connections.Every country store has a card of them hanging on the wall.Points can be closed and making no contact.Points run very hot and form oxides that can insulate them.Voltage drop across an ignition switch says trouble.
 
Those meters are 7 bucks in one of my catalogs.Ive used 2 of them since the 1950s. one reads starters the other reads starter, generator and alternators.The problem is that a lot of fellows on this forum cant read the tractors ammeter.Many dont know what a hydrometer is let alone how to use one.
 
Depends on how long you are cranking.If it heats up fast change the switch.Cranking too long can heat a good switch.Any poor connection will heat.A good starter will overheat if cranked too long.
 
Recomendation from someone who has been there.

Add a 6v solenoid into your starting system. Use the solenoid to handle the heavy current flow and the starter switch is used on the low current side of the solenoid to engage it.

After buring up 3 switches on an M I finally did this and had no more switch problems. Always resisted switching to 12 volt till last year. Switching to 12 volt has made it a reliable starting tractor. I don't believe any of the hype anymore of a properly maintained 6 volt system is as good as 12 volt.
 
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