Gas can size answer for Bret4207

A few days ago someone was asking about different cans to carry gasoline in. Some of the responders were recommending using large cans or even gas tanks out of old junk cars.
My response was…..
Some of you guys better learn haz-mat rules if you are going to recommend portable tanks over 8 gallons for gasoline.
Just cause you did it and got away with it does not make it legal.

Bret4207 replied to me but I did not see it. He said…….
Not sure I follow you on that John. Could you clear it up? Last I knew HazMat didn't start until a lot more than 8 gallons.

Since the thread is buried back several pages here is my response Bret.

Haz-Mat starts at one ounce or even smaller. From there you are given exemptions for things like “Materials of Trade”.

Diesel fuel has a exemption for containers less than 119 gallons that is why you can have truck bed equipment fuel tanks to carry diesel.

But gasoline is a whole different ball game. It is true you can haul gasoline without a CDL or placards in amounts up to 1000 lbs but you still need to consider things like package labels and MSDS rules. Haz-mat is a lot more involved than just placard rules.

Quote from one states handbook but all are the same....

Transporting hazardous materials: If you transport gasoline, alcohol, starting fluid, acetylene, oxygen or other hazardous material, you are subject to the Hazardous Materials regulations. If the hazardous materials you transport are used in your business you may qualify for the “Materials of Trade” exception. To qualify for this exception certain conditions must be adhered to including:
• Containers used to transport gasoline must be marked with “gasoline” on the container and be DOT or OSHA approved.
• Containers cannot be greater than 8 gallons.
• Cylinders must be labeled as required by the hazardous material regulations.
• Aggregate gross weight of all “Materials of Trade” cannot exceed 440 pounds. (Nine 8 gallon cans of gasoline @ 6 lbs/gal. = 432 lbs.)
• All containers must be secured against movement or damage and closed to prevent leakage during transportation.

Now look at interstate. If you haul a 5 gallon can of gas over state lines you better be ready.
Quote.....
Interstate transportation of hazardous materials in any quantity requires a minimum of $1,000,000 liability insurance.
TRANSPORTING CLASS 3 FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS

Sorry the link did not work. Here you can copy and paste..........

ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/ID/snow/safety/resources/Transporting_Class_3_Flammable_Liquids.pdf

What about international. I like to take lots of boat gas into Canada.

So I guess driving across the river and filling my 6 gallon can with that cheap Michigan gas is a no-no? Of course the DOT probably would of had a cow when I was driving around Florida in our Blue crew cab Ford Pickup with 15 Lbs of C-4 in the back. But then we were carrying automatic weapons to so they probably didn't want to mess with us.

I've been retired almost 4 years now John. I'll have to find my Haz Mat book, but IIRC the 119 gal still applied to gas, kero, diesel, etc. That's where placarding started. I also recall the bit about cans of gas,etc, allegedly having to be marked, but was told that applied to MoT on CMV's, not Joe Homeowner. Things may have changed, but since my Burb has a 37 gallon gas tank I think there is language in there exempting non-CMVs carrying limited quantities. I'll have to get ahold of my old partner and bend his ear.

(quoted from post at 01:05:02 09/18/12) So I guess driving across the river and filling my 6 gallon can with that cheap Michigan gas is a no-no? Of course the DOT probably would of had a cow when I was driving around Florida in our Blue crew cab Ford Pickup with 15 Lbs of C-4 in the back. But then we were carrying automatic weapons to so they probably didn't want to mess with us.

Click to expand...

ell, I just remember that:
1) laws are like locks...for honest people.........and
2) you haven't broken the law unless you get caught.

there is an agricultural exemption to the hazmat rule spelled our in § 173.5 Agricultural operations.

Definition in § 171.8 Definitions and abbreviations as follow:

Agricultural product means a hazardous material, other than a hazardous waste, whose end use directly supports the production of an agricultural commodity including, but not limited to a fertilizer, pesticide, soil amendment or fuel. An agricultural product is limited to a material in Class 3, 8 or 9, Division 2.1, 2.2, 5.1, or 6.1, or an ORM-D material.


yes Hazmat is complex and does start at in very small quantities fund the Federal Regs do allow for significant exemptions depending upon what state you are in.

here is the link to § 173.5 that spells out the AG Exemption


-paul
173.5 Agricultural operations

Wow everyone is stooping to a lawyers level to prove a point.
We have a 500 gallon diesel barrel on a car trailer every fall and cops have seen it. Its parked along the highway in the field.
No tickets since 1982. We aren't for hire, and they already tax the Hell out of us so they probably leave it alone.
Who knows, I wouldn't pull it down Hennepin ave in Minneapolis, or an interstate, but I guess it depends on the purpose.

Yes haz mat rules for class 3 start at tank sizes of 119 gals or 1001 lbs as it pertains to placards. We may be missing each other because you are talking placards and I am talking labels and proper containers.

There are exemptions for onboard fuel tanks such as your 37 gallon gas tank or a 150 gallon saddle diesel tank. I am talking load or portable tanks.

Diesel rules allow as much as your truck bed can legally carry as long as you stay with containers smaller than 119 gallons. But put one container of 119 gallons and we are in haz-mat rules.

But gasoline labeling and tank construction rules are much different. Take for instance. I go to wal-mart and buy a 5 gallon yellow can because that is all they have. I fill it with gasoline and haul it home. I have just broken the haz-mat rules. Look at the link from the federal DOT. It says any container with gasoline under 8 gallons needs to be marked gasoline or flammable liquids. The yellow cans say diesel.
A container of gasoline larger than 8 gallons needs a label with the UN numbers 1203 on it.

Ask your old partner to ask someone from the haz-mat team. Most regular DOT officers do not get taught this because they target CMV’s.

When it comes to haz-mat you might be better off asking a lawyer for advise.
Many people including myself push laws everyday. The only reason I even mention it is so you can make a informed decision on how you go from here.

You may go a whole life time and never have a problem.
Or the next time you leave the yard and go 1/4 of a mile to the corner to fill that tank someone may run into you.

Finding out the rules after you have a major spill or fire is not good.

Yes farmers have many exemptions.

The orginal post was about gas cans metal or plastic and some were advising he use a tank out of a junk car or a large drum.

I have enough problems keeping up with US laws. No way I want to get into Canada laws.

i think proving a point can be a good thing ...

i like these threads because it makes me think
about how much risk i am or am not taking when i
do certain things around the farm or otherwise

i have worked pretty hard to get what i have and
do not want to expose myself to risks unnecessarily. we live in a terribly litigious
world that can take everything from you very
quickly.

-paul

Okay John, we looked through it and agree the language is in there. You're right in that respect. My thought is more along the lines of practical things and both he and I agree that the chances of being in an accident with a DOT or HazMat guy taking issue with your ho'made, unmarked and labeled 15 gallon gas tank is pretty slim. As you said, it's fine to put it out there so people can make an informed decision, but between my old partner (still working) and myself that's over 40 years of police work and 15 in DOT/HazMat...it would be a pretty chintzy (chicken crap) piece of paper to hang on a non-CMV operator. Personally, I'd have to be ordered to do it myself.

Thanks Bret
I agree with everything you said.