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- Thread starter Greg1959
- Start date
(quoted from post at 19:51:26 01/05/13) I'm not going to mention names but, here is what I find disturbing about this post....
(quoted from post at 01:32:40 01/06/13) Have you ever heard of the Chinese OHSA???? There is not one. So where a US manufacture would have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in air filters and personal protection equipment the China manufacture has ZERO cost. If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either.
JDSeller- you are totally wrong in making that statement about "If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either".
So greg you have proof that if a worker in China dies due to work conditions that the company can and will be sued?
Rick
sixtyninegmc
Member
Sounds to me like he hit the nail on the head. Oh, wait, I`m not supposed to know who you are talking about.
(quoted from post at 03:53:22 01/06/13)(quoted from post at 19:51:26 01/05/13) I'm not going to mention names but, here is what I find disturbing about this post....
(quoted from post at 01:32:40 01/06/13) Have you ever heard of the Chinese OHSA???? There is not one. So where a US manufacture would have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in air filters and personal protection equipment the China manufacture has ZERO cost. If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either.
JDSeller- you are totally wrong in making that statement about "If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either".
So greg you have proof that if a worker in China dies due to work conditions that the company can and will be sued?
Rick
Yea, Oldtanker, After reading my post. It did come out as kinda strange.
What I meant by that response was how can JDS say "If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either."
That statement just seems to "grate" against
me.
(quoted from post at 20:18:09 01/05/13)(quoted from post at 03:53:22 01/06/13)(quoted from post at 19:51:26 01/05/13) I'm not going to mention names but, here is what I find disturbing about this post....
(quoted from post at 01:32:40 01/06/13) Have you ever heard of the Chinese OHSA???? There is not one. So where a US manufacture would have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in air filters and personal protection equipment the China manufacture has ZERO cost. If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either.
JDSeller- you are totally wrong in making that statement about "If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either".
So greg you have proof that if a worker in China dies due to work conditions that the company can and will be sued?
Rick
Yea, Oldtanker, After reading my post. It did come out as kinda strange.
What I meant by that response was how can JDS say "If some one gets sick or dies there is no law suets in China either."
That statement just seems to "grate" against
me.
OK Greg. Guess I took it as I read it. As a statement of fact. That conditions in China are such that they really don't care about the worker. That means the no filters and such JD mentioned. I know a guy, high school friend, who worked for a company that made gas grills as a design engineer. The company for years took great pride that they made everything in the US. Then there were some changes from both OSHA and the EPA and to stay competitive they had to move making the brass parts for the valves off shore to some country that isn't as concerned about the enviorment or worker safety as the US. Kinda sad in the sense that more jobs were lost but that's how it is. I don't fault the government as being totally responsible for this. Part of the problem is the buying public that shops by price only too. I'm not going to condemn someone for trying to stretch a buck, but I don't want them crying about out sourcing. They are part of the problem, not the solution. You can bet that if the feds raised all import taxes to make American companies more competitive these sames folks would be outraged.
Rick
The problem isn't OSHA, its allowing cheaply made, untested products into the US. They sell for little money. Then, we have a choice for a China product and a US product. If the choice wasn't there, we would save enough money to do it with a US product.
I blame Walmart, and American Greed. We all created an issue and unless there are higher tariffs, which we can't impose since they borrow us money to give to Iraq, Kuwait, and all the CEO's that made Billions on the housing crisis we can't afford it.
I blame Walmart, and American Greed. We all created an issue and unless there are higher tariffs, which we can't impose since they borrow us money to give to Iraq, Kuwait, and all the CEO's that made Billions on the housing crisis we can't afford it.
(quoted from post at 21:20:17 01/05/13) The problem isn't OSHA, its allowing cheaply made, untested products into the US. They sell for little money. Then, we have a choice for a China product and a US product. If the choice wasn't there, we would save enough money to do it with a US product.
I blame Walmart, and American Greed. We all created an issue and unless there are higher tariffs, which we can't impose since they borrow us money to give to Iraq, Kuwait, and all the CEO's that made Billions on the housing crisis we can't afford it.
Hate to tell you this but the housing crisis can be laid at ole BIlly Clintons feet. He's the one who made it so lenders had to accept welfare as income on a loan app. He also took the final chop at banking regs already weakened but Carter, Reagan and the elder Bush. Not all the COE's in the housing market took advantage of that but some did and made even more.
And no the problem isn't all OSHA. It's wages and EPA too.
I worked in a factory for a year afer I retired from the Army. The safety crap was astounding! A lot of it was overkill that slowed production.
Every one had to wear company provided safety glasses even though some of the folks were in no danger of flying objects. Those safety glasses cost money. That cost goes into the price that gets passed on to the consumer. The delay in productivity from shields that had to be moved adds to the final cost too, also passed on the the end user. Those special scrubbers and or filters to protect the air add to the cost.
Then there is John Q public who demands cheap products all the while demanding clean air and water, safe working conditions and minimum wage or better.
Rick
Greg I don't know what got your under wear in a bunch. I just stated the reason many industries are no longer in the US is the difference in the Government regulations. China has almost zero regulations and we have way too many regulations.
We have stopped using any common sense in the rules we have. I don't want anyone hurt by what is being done but the way things are today is just crazy.
Here is an example:
We have trucks going in and out of ADM plants all of the time. I watched an ADM employee get chewed out for not having fall protection on and his line tied off when he was drilling a hole while on a step ladder. This sounds fine until you know what the height he was at. TWO FEET. That is correct. HE was on the second step up from the bottom of a six foot step ladder. This is from an on site OSHA inspector.
So the guy goes and gets his fall protection harness and ties it off right above his ladder. The real funny thing??? Most fall protection harness have slack in the line so they can slowly stop you. He was two feet off the ground. His fall protection had four feet of slack. That is right he could have laid down on the ground and the harness would not have done anything but the OSHA inspector was happy.
Here is another Gem from the US OSHA rules.
A good friend has a steel fabrication business. They mainly build hog confinement equipment. You know gates and feeders, that type of stuff. He has three big hydraulic bending presses. He had them all hard wired in with conduit out the back over to the wall which they are setting close too. He got fined because they where not wired from over head. You can't wire them from over head. They set in a twenty foot tall ceiling that has an over head crane that travels the length of the building.
The OSHA inspector's solution to the problem. Wire each machine with a soft cord and have it lay on the floor and that gets plugged into the wall. I am not joking. He had showed me the write up and the fine.
They now cut the cords about one each week by running over them with the fork trucks but the OSHA guy is happy and that is all that counts. Never did get a reason for them not liking the way they had been wired. He just got fined. I don't remember the exact amount because they wrote him up on several things. The others where to do with ventilation issues around the welders. Those at least made sense.
Here is another one:
This one was at the JD dealership where I used to work at. The building was built in the early to mid 1970s. The electric plugs in the walls all where installed with the ground terminal down. That is how they always used to be done. Now they want the ground terminal up. The reason is that if something hits the plug and pulls it half way out it hit the ground not a hot. Those plugs turned the wrong way cost the dealer $3500 bucks in fines. This was in 2008. The building was thirty years old. I could have seen a warning to correct them but no they got fined.
So I am telling you the list could go on and on. I am all for safety but some common sense needs to go with it. Plus you can be OK with one inspector and the next one will write you up for things the first told you to do. I have seen it happen.
So the wage differences is only part of the problem.
As far as tariffs, I am all for them in a reasonable manner. We had them until after WW II. We do need to protect our standard of living. World wide trade only works if we have a world wide standard of living.
We have stopped using any common sense in the rules we have. I don't want anyone hurt by what is being done but the way things are today is just crazy.
Here is an example:
We have trucks going in and out of ADM plants all of the time. I watched an ADM employee get chewed out for not having fall protection on and his line tied off when he was drilling a hole while on a step ladder. This sounds fine until you know what the height he was at. TWO FEET. That is correct. HE was on the second step up from the bottom of a six foot step ladder. This is from an on site OSHA inspector.
So the guy goes and gets his fall protection harness and ties it off right above his ladder. The real funny thing??? Most fall protection harness have slack in the line so they can slowly stop you. He was two feet off the ground. His fall protection had four feet of slack. That is right he could have laid down on the ground and the harness would not have done anything but the OSHA inspector was happy.
Here is another Gem from the US OSHA rules.
A good friend has a steel fabrication business. They mainly build hog confinement equipment. You know gates and feeders, that type of stuff. He has three big hydraulic bending presses. He had them all hard wired in with conduit out the back over to the wall which they are setting close too. He got fined because they where not wired from over head. You can't wire them from over head. They set in a twenty foot tall ceiling that has an over head crane that travels the length of the building.
The OSHA inspector's solution to the problem. Wire each machine with a soft cord and have it lay on the floor and that gets plugged into the wall. I am not joking. He had showed me the write up and the fine.
They now cut the cords about one each week by running over them with the fork trucks but the OSHA guy is happy and that is all that counts. Never did get a reason for them not liking the way they had been wired. He just got fined. I don't remember the exact amount because they wrote him up on several things. The others where to do with ventilation issues around the welders. Those at least made sense.
Here is another one:
This one was at the JD dealership where I used to work at. The building was built in the early to mid 1970s. The electric plugs in the walls all where installed with the ground terminal down. That is how they always used to be done. Now they want the ground terminal up. The reason is that if something hits the plug and pulls it half way out it hit the ground not a hot. Those plugs turned the wrong way cost the dealer $3500 bucks in fines. This was in 2008. The building was thirty years old. I could have seen a warning to correct them but no they got fined.
So I am telling you the list could go on and on. I am all for safety but some common sense needs to go with it. Plus you can be OK with one inspector and the next one will write you up for things the first told you to do. I have seen it happen.
So the wage differences is only part of the problem.
As far as tariffs, I am all for them in a reasonable manner. We had them until after WW II. We do need to protect our standard of living. World wide trade only works if we have a world wide standard of living.
(quoted from post at 21:20:17 01/05/13) The problem isn't OSHA, its allowing cheaply made, untested products into the US. They sell for little money. Then, we have a choice for a China product and a US product. If the choice wasn't there, we would save enough money to do it with a US product.
I blame Walmart, and American Greed. We all created an issue and unless there are higher tariffs, which we can't impose since they borrow us money to give to Iraq, Kuwait, and all the CEO's that made Billions on the housing crisis we can't afford it.
OH the next thing on the EPA agenda is to shut down all of the coal fired power plants. They want it done now. So OK the power companies convert to natural gas. The cost of that swap will be passed onto the consumer. That's both to home users and to companies making things to sell or producing food products. Those companies are going to pass that on to the consumer too. The cost of natural gas will got up because of increased demand too.
Plus just how many jobs are the coal industries going to loose? How about the rail roads that will not be hauling coal any more? How many jobs is CAT going to cut when the demand for mining equipment drops off?
Do we need to find antoher way to produce electricity? YES! But are we willing to pay that price by forcing an issue when we can least afford it?
Rick
I work in a "fortune 50 company" and many here use our products. Here's how stupid U.S. industry is. I work in the garage dept and say you arrive delivering a pallet with a drum of oil on it and want to back up to our shop so we can off load with a forklift. You must first come in and together you and I will fill out a "backing" checklist for backing up a vehicle. then I will donn (put on) a flourescent vest and proced to direct you up to the door where I can off load you. Using a forklift (SEATBELT ON!!!). These are company rules, not OSHA. So, all of U. S. industry has gone stupid. And then they tell us that we must "compete" with an outside contractor that doesn't have to follow any of those rules!
(quoted from post at 22:11:51 01/05/13) I work in a "fortune 50 company" and many here use our products. Here's how stupid U.S. industry is. I work in the garage dept and say you arrive delivering a pallet with a drum of oil on it and want to back up to our shop so we can off load with a forklift. You must first come in and together you and I will fill out a "backing" checklist for backing up a vehicle. then I will donn (put on) a flourescent vest and proced to direct you up to the door where I can off load you. Using a forklift (SEATBELT ON!!!). These are company rules, not OSHA. So, all of U. S. industry has gone stupid. And then they tell us that we must "compete" with an outside contractor that doesn't have to follow any of those rules!
Yep, the other item no one mentioned. Companies trying to protect themselves from legal action in the event an employee is injured or killed. Again all added to the cost of doing business that is passed on the the consumer.
Rick
Richard from SE AZ
Member
Having been an Underground miner for over40 yrs I can attest to the over regulation that has hampered mining in this country for quite awhile. Overergulation is, as has been said before, what is sending companies overseas. Another example of overregulation, we have a small coal powered power plant about 20 mines from my home.It has cost them a fortune but the only emissions given out by said plant is steam. Now... they are being told that they have to put in additional scrubbers to capture something that causes haze. Never mind that we have two copper smelters across the border that do not have to meet Americas standards for emissions. The cost, 162 million dollars. The power plant has said that there is no way that they can cover that cost, even by raising rates astronomically. Their alternative, shut down. What sense does that make??? Who give a cr*p about a little haze???
john in la
Well-known Member
And why does your company have such silly rules.
Could it be that someone somewhere was not paying attention to where they were going; or just felt they had the right of way; and walked behind a backing truck got run over. So now the company is out money for doctor bills and lost time of work. But wait that is not good enough because red neck joe that got hurt wants a easy million so he sues.
I am not saying this country is headed down the wrong path with all these rules. What has us in trouble is the law suits people file because of easy money.
Could it be that someone somewhere was not paying attention to where they were going; or just felt they had the right of way; and walked behind a backing truck got run over. So now the company is out money for doctor bills and lost time of work. But wait that is not good enough because red neck joe that got hurt wants a easy million so he sues.
I am not saying this country is headed down the wrong path with all these rules. What has us in trouble is the law suits people file because of easy money.
Richard, I would guess this is not a case of misguided overregulation but rather, a case of intentional overregulation. Remember, this administration is committed to putting the coal industry out of business.
Much of the misguided overregulation is done by government employees who simply want to keep and advance in their meaningless jobs by implementing change, whether the change makes sense or not. The system may be functioning perfectly, but to the meddling bureaucrat who wants to justify his paycheck, continuation of the status quo is not good. ("Annual review is coming up; I need to regulate something.")
Another example of such mindless meddling (some good ones have already been given): I once worked for a large government contractor (ordnance manufacturer). Part of my job involved the print shop. One day the government's safety guy came into the shop in time to see the paper cutter, a huge guillotine-like machine, effortlessly slice through a five inch stack of paper. He saw that a set of fingers or even a hand would be no challenge to such a dangerous device, so without consulting anyone, he went back to his office and designed a safety guard to be installed on the machine. It was 100 percent effective as a safety feature. The only problem was, you could no longer insert any paper.
Much of the misguided overregulation is done by government employees who simply want to keep and advance in their meaningless jobs by implementing change, whether the change makes sense or not. The system may be functioning perfectly, but to the meddling bureaucrat who wants to justify his paycheck, continuation of the status quo is not good. ("Annual review is coming up; I need to regulate something.")
Another example of such mindless meddling (some good ones have already been given): I once worked for a large government contractor (ordnance manufacturer). Part of my job involved the print shop. One day the government's safety guy came into the shop in time to see the paper cutter, a huge guillotine-like machine, effortlessly slice through a five inch stack of paper. He saw that a set of fingers or even a hand would be no challenge to such a dangerous device, so without consulting anyone, he went back to his office and designed a safety guard to be installed on the machine. It was 100 percent effective as a safety feature. The only problem was, you could no longer insert any paper.
37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
We would have probably lost the war if OSHA was around then. Stan
huntingreen2day
Member
I don't know why people keep blaming Wal Mart for this countries problems. i am glad to be able to buy products at a lower price. I think it is because people hate for others to be successful. The local mom and pop business had the same opportunities Sam Walton had to grow their business. Yes OSHA requires a lot of stupid things but in my book so does the American union worker. I worked in manufacturing for 42 years and saw a lot of things demanded that were just plain stupid also. manufacturing moved over seas to get away from these demands, to get workers who will really work, and it is an endless supply of cheap labor. I am not saying they don't need safety or need to have clean air and water requirements. But these things won't happen in these countries until the country prospers.
cannonball
Member
(quoted from post at 05:50:48 01/06/13) This happens in China...so is it ok or should doors be shut???
Untitled URL Link
Here is a big shocker.......while we may not agree with what goes on in China with safe working conditions, clean air and water or child labor......it's isn't any of our business! IF you don't like how tings are done in China, don't buy things made there. Simple as that. And yes I know that some items are available only from China today we can still buy a lot of stuff that isn't made there.
Unions to blame? Not on most items. Only a very small percentage of US workers are union. The blame for cheap Chineese junk is the guy who granted them most favored nation trade status.
Hate Wally World? Not really. I may shop there once every 6 months or so. But the people who shop there should be last people who complain about US jobs moving off shore. IMO most Wally World shopper are just trying to own everything at once. Big TV, BluRay, Surround all the while buying food and clothing too. Sense I retired from the Army in 96 I've seen 2 towns get Wal Mart Super Centers that had no Wal Marts and 2 others get upgraded to super centers. Still waiting for all those local shops to close up that claimed they couldn't compete. Been waiting a long time.
Rick
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
You're right it all adds up.Unions,Gov't regulations,crazy lawsuits,OSHA,taxes and declining work ethic by workes have all added up to the USA being uncompetitive.So far its worked because we've borrowed a Trillion$ + a year to keep up of lifestyle but the day is coming when we as a country actually have to live off what we earn and that'll be a real shock and a much lower standard of living for almost everyone espcially those that have bought into the present financial system.
cannonball
Member
well old, I was comparing the usa with china...rules about child labor in usa...and also the amazing fact that a child that young could run this as well as he could... but leave to beaver to put a twist on it..
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Yea I guess he could be 'lucky' like an American kid smoking Pot,playing mindless video games,getting obese and turning out totally unprepared to be in a very competitive World.
I was operating farm equipment at that age and loved it BTW.
I was operating farm equipment at that age and loved it BTW.
Yea true that kid can operate. Don't mean it's right but things are what they depending on where you live. I know my BIL's dad used to bragg that my BIL was in the field on a tractor at 5. Now that would land him in jail. Just this past summer I saw a kid operating a power mower unsupervised. Couldn't have been more that 7 or 8. OK I have no problem with a kid that age learning to work but running a power mower? With no adults around?
I wasn't trying to put a spin on anything. I was addressing another comment.
Rick
I wasn't trying to put a spin on anything. I was addressing another comment.
Rick
huntingreen2day: You are correct that we all had the same opportunity that Sam Walton had. Now that Walmart has the market share it does that would no longer be true.
Talk to anyone that has done business with Walmart on the other side of the counter. They are a terrible company to deal with as a vendor or supplier. They do not pay for their stuff for 90 days minimum. They will come in and tell smaller vendors that here is all we will pay for your product regardless of what the cost are. Their purchasing agents will just pull numbers out of thin air. These agents get paid more based on how much cheaper they can buy stuff.
My son used to work for this company that packaged chemicals. Like brake fluid and other generic chemicals that autos use. The owner was a Polish Jew that had survived the Germans in WWII. He used to say that Walmart made the Germans look easy. LOL Any way the purchasing agent tried to strong arm him into a much lower contract for the products they bottle for Walart. He rebid the contract at a price he could live with. The agent would not sign it. He kept badgering the old fellow to sign Walmart's con tract offer. This went on for months. Finally the old contract ran out. The old owner lined all of Walmart's trailers out on the street off his property. Just like he told the purchasing agent he would. The local police loved it they ticketed every one of them. We are talking about fifty trailers. The very next day the regional purchasing agent for Walmart was there and wanted to sign the old fellows contract. The old guy refused saying his offer ran out when the old contract did. He told them to go get stuffed. It took Walmart a few months to find some fool to supply them.
The company that supplied them had a record year after they dropped Walmart.
Talk to anyone that has done business with Walmart on the other side of the counter. They are a terrible company to deal with as a vendor or supplier. They do not pay for their stuff for 90 days minimum. They will come in and tell smaller vendors that here is all we will pay for your product regardless of what the cost are. Their purchasing agents will just pull numbers out of thin air. These agents get paid more based on how much cheaper they can buy stuff.
My son used to work for this company that packaged chemicals. Like brake fluid and other generic chemicals that autos use. The owner was a Polish Jew that had survived the Germans in WWII. He used to say that Walmart made the Germans look easy. LOL Any way the purchasing agent tried to strong arm him into a much lower contract for the products they bottle for Walart. He rebid the contract at a price he could live with. The agent would not sign it. He kept badgering the old fellow to sign Walmart's con tract offer. This went on for months. Finally the old contract ran out. The old owner lined all of Walmart's trailers out on the street off his property. Just like he told the purchasing agent he would. The local police loved it they ticketed every one of them. We are talking about fifty trailers. The very next day the regional purchasing agent for Walmart was there and wanted to sign the old fellows contract. The old guy refused saying his offer ran out when the old contract did. He told them to go get stuffed. It took Walmart a few months to find some fool to supply them.
The company that supplied them had a record year after they dropped Walmart.
tomstractorsandtoys1
Member
I have a friend in the import business who is a huge wholeseller.He say everything Wal-mart has is poorer quality.He says to check product part numbers everything at Wal-mart is different that the other stores selling the same product.The stuff sent to Wal-mart is made cheaper,it may look the same but it has cheaper parts and less quality.Even down to flashlight batteries they look the same but are of poorer quality.This man says he buys stuff that is made in the same plants that Wal-mart uses and the owners tell him the same story.He has visited the factories and China has some real problems.At one place they were painting without any mask and he asked the owner if that fellow should have a mask,to which the owner replied that would increase our cost if he dies or gets sick we will just hire someone else.
tomstractorsandtoys1
Member
At eight my children were running 3020 and 4020 tractors pulling silage wagons to and from the field for someone else to unload.They would only run fifth gear.I never considered it unsafe as they were taught work and responsibilty at a young age.Now at seventeen my son is working for a large custom operater running the newest and biggest equipment built.
(quoted from post at 07:19:47 01/06/13) Yea true that kid can operate. Don't mean it's right but things are what they depending on where you live. I know my BIL's dad used to bragg that my BIL was in the field on a tractor at 5. Now that would land him in jail. Just this past summer I saw a kid operating a power mower unsupervised. Couldn't have been more that 7 or 8. OK I have no problem with a kid that age learning to work but running a power mower? With no adults around?
That was commonplace 50 years ago, even 30 years ago. What makes it so different today? If anything the equipment is much much safer to operate. Push mowers stop almost instantly when you let go of the handle. Back then if you let go of the mower, it would run you over, chew you up, and spit you out.
(quoted from post at 09:48:46 01/06/13)(quoted from post at 07:19:47 01/06/13) Yea true that kid can operate. Don't mean it's right but things are what they depending on where you live. I know my BIL's dad used to bragg that my BIL was in the field on a tractor at 5. Now that would land him in jail. Just this past summer I saw a kid operating a power mower unsupervised. Couldn't have been more that 7 or 8. OK I have no problem with a kid that age learning to work but running a power mower? With no adults around?
That was commonplace 50 years ago, even 30 years ago. What makes it so different today? If anything the equipment is much much safer to operate. Push mowers stop almost instantly when you let go of the handle. Back then if you let go of the mower, it would run you over, chew you up, and spit you out.
And that makes it ok?
Rick
(quoted from post at 12:24:27 01/06/13)(quoted from post at 09:48:46 01/06/13)(quoted from post at 07:19:47 01/06/13) Yea true that kid can operate. Don't mean it's right but things are what they depending on where you live. I know my BIL's dad used to bragg that my BIL was in the field on a tractor at 5. Now that would land him in jail. Just this past summer I saw a kid operating a power mower unsupervised. Couldn't have been more that 7 or 8. OK I have no problem with a kid that age learning to work but running a power mower? With no adults around?
That was commonplace 50 years ago, even 30 years ago. What makes it so different today? If anything the equipment is much much safer to operate. Push mowers stop almost instantly when you let go of the handle. Back then if you let go of the mower, it would run you over, chew you up, and spit you out.
And that makes it ok?
Rick
Do you think everything should be regulated now? The machines are safer now than when you and I were kids.. Why shouldn't children be allowed to work? I suppose to some it is safer leaving them in front of the TV and giving them a bag of Dorito's.
(quoted from post at 23:17:16 01/05/13) Richard, I would guess this is not a case of misguided overregulation but rather, a case of intentional overregulation. Remember, this administration is committed to putting the coal industry out of business.
Much of the misguided overregulation is done by government employees who simply want to keep and advance in their meaningless jobs by implementing change, whether the change makes sense or not. The system may be functioning perfectly, but to the meddling bureaucrat who wants to justify his paycheck, continuation of the status quo is not good. ("Annual review is coming up; I need to regulate something.")
Another example of such mindless meddling (some good ones have already been given): I once worked for a large government contractor (ordnance manufacturer). Part of my job involved the print shop. One day the government's safety guy came into the shop in time to see the paper cutter, a huge guillotine-like machine, effortlessly slice through a five inch stack of paper. He saw that a set of fingers or even a hand would be no challenge to such a dangerous device, so without consulting anyone, he went back to his office and designed a safety guard to be installed on the machine. It was 100 percent effective as a safety feature. The only problem was, you could no longer insert any paper.
The coal industry is going to have a very hard time competing against cheap natural gas - the shale gas boom is to decimate the coal industry.
(quoted from post at 23:17:16 01/05/13) Richard, I would guess this is not a case of misguided overregulation but rather, a case of intentional overregulation. Remember, this administration is committed to putting the coal industry out of business.
Much of the misguided overregulation is done by government employees who simply want to keep and advance in their meaningless jobs by implementing change, whether the change makes sense or not. The system may be functioning perfectly, but to the meddling bureaucrat who wants to justify his paycheck, continuation of the status quo is not good. ("Annual review is coming up; I need to regulate something.")
Another example of such mindless meddling (some good ones have already been given): I once worked for a large government contractor (ordnance manufacturer). Part of my job involved the print shop. One day the government's safety guy came into the shop in time to see the paper cutter, a huge guillotine-like machine, effortlessly slice through a five inch stack of paper. He saw that a set of fingers or even a hand would be no challenge to such a dangerous device, so without consulting anyone, he went back to his office and designed a safety guard to be installed on the machine. It was 100 percent effective as a safety feature. The only problem was, you could no longer insert any paper.
The coal industry is going to have a very hard time competing against cheap natural gas - the shale gas boom is to decimate the coal industry.
(quoted from post at 23:17:16 01/05/13) Richard, I would guess this is not a case of misguided overregulation but rather, a case of intentional overregulation. Remember, this administration is committed to putting the coal industry out of business.
Much of the misguided overregulation is done by government employees who simply want to keep and advance in their meaningless jobs by implementing change, whether the change makes sense or not. The system may be functioning perfectly, but to the meddling bureaucrat who wants to justify his paycheck, continuation of the status quo is not good. ("Annual review is coming up; I need to regulate something.")
Another example of such mindless meddling (some good ones have already been given): I once worked for a large government contractor (ordnance manufacturer). Part of my job involved the print shop. One day the government's safety guy came into the shop in time to see the paper cutter, a huge guillotine-like machine, effortlessly slice through a five inch stack of paper. He saw that a set of fingers or even a hand would be no challenge to such a dangerous device, so without consulting anyone, he went back to his office and designed a safety guard to be installed on the machine. It was 100 percent effective as a safety feature. The only problem was, you could no longer insert any paper.
The coal industry is going to have a very hard time competing against cheap natural gas - the shale gas boom is to decimate the coal industry.
Spook:
I really don't care about nat gas. Yes it is cheap. Yes it is clean. Why can't we have coal and nat gas? Do we have to put all our eggs in one basket? That isn't smart or wise.
We need multiple sources of energy to maintain a cheap energy policy. Lets have 1/3 coal, 1/3 nat gas and 1/3 nuclear to keep the lights on.
Anything more than that shows that one has another motive that is for their own benefit.
I don't sign agreements with one supplier for the same reason. Sure they promise the world, but good luck getting 1/4th of what they promise in real life.
This is a COUNTRY, and we need to remember there are more people here than our little neighborhood.
I really don't care about nat gas. Yes it is cheap. Yes it is clean. Why can't we have coal and nat gas? Do we have to put all our eggs in one basket? That isn't smart or wise.
We need multiple sources of energy to maintain a cheap energy policy. Lets have 1/3 coal, 1/3 nat gas and 1/3 nuclear to keep the lights on.
Anything more than that shows that one has another motive that is for their own benefit.
I don't sign agreements with one supplier for the same reason. Sure they promise the world, but good luck getting 1/4th of what they promise in real life.
This is a COUNTRY, and we need to remember there are more people here than our little neighborhood.
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
Yes and no.
I do a lot of work in coal fired power plants, several of which are either closing down or going bankrupt. But there is a reason for that. I don't want to get into politics here, so will keep it to a minimum. Someone whom shall remain nameless promised that if he was ever elected to office, that he would bankrupt the coal industry, and is doing so. He has the EPA fining the coal guys every which way but lose, killing them as he promised that he would do. At the same time, he wants nothing to do with natural gas, fracking, and wants them stopped too so that we can do everything either by solar or wind. However, right now he has the EPA backed off of the gas guys, because they are being convenient tools for him to do what he said, put the coal industry out of business. The gas guys are doing exactly that, BUT after they do break the backs of the coal industry as planned, if they manage to do it, you can bet your life that this guy is going to have the EPA turn their guns on the gas guys that he will not need anymore, and they will be the next bankrupted. Right now, the gas guys are dancing jigs all the way to the bank, flying under the EPA radar that has all been turned down or off for them, for now. For now, but in time will have the same bullseyes painted on them by the same guy that painted them on the coal guys and IS blasting them. What is going here, is conquer and devide. Get your neighbors to turn their backs on other neighbors, in hopes that they will be spared by the bad guys, but it never ends good for them either. They are always just the last guys chopped down, after they stood back and watched, or helped chop the other guys down.
Four more years. That's all that I'm going to say about that guy that we have at the helm, here, so this does not get poofed by me. That's all that I'm going to say.
Mark
I do a lot of work in coal fired power plants, several of which are either closing down or going bankrupt. But there is a reason for that. I don't want to get into politics here, so will keep it to a minimum. Someone whom shall remain nameless promised that if he was ever elected to office, that he would bankrupt the coal industry, and is doing so. He has the EPA fining the coal guys every which way but lose, killing them as he promised that he would do. At the same time, he wants nothing to do with natural gas, fracking, and wants them stopped too so that we can do everything either by solar or wind. However, right now he has the EPA backed off of the gas guys, because they are being convenient tools for him to do what he said, put the coal industry out of business. The gas guys are doing exactly that, BUT after they do break the backs of the coal industry as planned, if they manage to do it, you can bet your life that this guy is going to have the EPA turn their guns on the gas guys that he will not need anymore, and they will be the next bankrupted. Right now, the gas guys are dancing jigs all the way to the bank, flying under the EPA radar that has all been turned down or off for them, for now. For now, but in time will have the same bullseyes painted on them by the same guy that painted them on the coal guys and IS blasting them. What is going here, is conquer and devide. Get your neighbors to turn their backs on other neighbors, in hopes that they will be spared by the bad guys, but it never ends good for them either. They are always just the last guys chopped down, after they stood back and watched, or helped chop the other guys down.
Four more years. That's all that I'm going to say about that guy that we have at the helm, here, so this does not get poofed by me. That's all that I'm going to say.
Mark
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