How cheap?

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

How cheap do you think two people could live in a small house on say 20 acres in a low property tax state like Missouri,Arkansas,Tennessee? Considering that maybe 5 acres was open,the rest wooded. Say you were to heat with wood,no internet,no satalite TV,land line phone only,growing a huge garden and doing a lot of canning.
I know with the new laws,you'd have to have expensive health insurance. Think maybe $20,000 a year would let you survive without laying awake nights worrying about money?

Mike (WA) · Mar 21, 2013

If you were living that frugally, I'd say even less than that. Would depend on the source of the income- if you were working for it, you could get food stamps, maybe Earned Income Credit, etc., and add to it substantially. And if you're below poverty level, wasn't the whole point of external_linkcare that you would get it free?

Not trying to politicize this, but just sayin'.

ohiojim · Mar 21, 2013

i'm with mike, you should live pretty good without the good things

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

Wasn't really planning to work for it. Just tossing things around in my head.
Sell the cattle and most of the equipment to buy a place and pay cash. Rent the home place to the boy who wants to buy the place eventually. He can build a herd back up from the few cows he has while he keeps his day job. Rent the rest of the land out for cash rent until he builds up enough to start needing different parcels of it.
Mostly just living off the revenues of what I've aquired in life so far.

wilamayb · Mar 21, 2013

I'm a Tennessee resident and have always lived in a rural area. Many folks live here on less than $20,000 a year. These are older folks that have never lived above their means and still dont. These folks have saved all their lives and live well. My grandmother is one of such people. She is lacking nothing. She lives in a nice home, is well dressed and buys whatever she needs. She doesnt owe a dime to anyone and never has.

So why can people live here so cheaply?
Tennessee is mostly a red state other than Memphis and some of the west TN die-hard nnalert which are quickly disappearing as they age. Because of our mostly conservative legislative body our state has little to no debt. I read a report a while back stating that TN was in better financial condition than any other in the Union. We dont have many of the silly taxes of most other states. We have reasonable land taxes and no income tax. Some cities have silly city taxes but I'm guessing you would be interested in country life anyways.

There are some exceptions to the cheap tax rule in areas such as Brentwood/Franklin/Leipers Fork etc which covers a good deal of Williamson County. Williamson County tax rates arent really all that high but the value of the land is so great that it causes the tax to appear to be inflated.

If you are thinking about packing up and moving south there are some perks. We dont have much snow

My home territory of middle TN is cattle country. It is rolling hills of pastureland and hardwoods with lots of little creeks with clear water (Middle and East TN creeks are almost always on a limestone bed).

Now all that said; if you have "cranky yankee" moments you'll have to leave that up north

Down here you'll learn patience and maybe even southern charm

Ha ha

Sean Feeney · Mar 21, 2013

How old are you ?

I think it can be done, but ( "Rent the home place to the boy" ) if he can't pay what is the outcome?

"Rent the rest of the land out for cash rent" The miscellaneous and uninspected expenses will occur new car roof etc... How much you going to have in your safety net to carry you, say if you where had nothing coming in at all, I would think a 3/4 years worth 60-80 K min. If you can, go for it Good Luck!!!

Determined · Mar 21, 2013

A lot depends on what you are capable of and or enjoy doing.
Slaughter your own beef, pork, chickens, deer etc along with a big garden and a milk cow and you will be amazed at how little you spend at the grocery store. Not much more than a sack of flour + sugar, salt, pepper and tush paper ... and you are good to go.
I look at making sausage, cheese, breads etc as a satisfying hobby.
On top of that you get to eat like a king, the stuff in the stores these days can not compare to home grown/homemade goodies.
Depending on where you are 20 acres may be viewed as a fancy residence and taxed accordingly, keep a bigger piece assessed as ag land and you will have room to move around and probably pay less property tax.

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

We try to get down around Byrdstown for a vacation about every year,in the Dale Hollow Lake area. That's kind of the area I have in mind,somewhere south of Albany Ky,in the Byrdstown,Pall Mall,Jamestown,Cookville general area. Love it there! Super nice folks,slow pace,everything you need to get by. It's harder to come back up here every time we're down there. I keep telling the boys,one of these years,I ain't coming home,I'll just call a realtor and an auctioneer and have them send me the check.
After I've been there and get relaxed in the hills,it's soul crushing to come back up here.

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

I'm thinking small house,open floor plan,two bedroom,one bath at most with the rest just open. A nice shop building/garage/storage. Heat the whole thing with that Swedish style solar panel/wood gas system that Thoger has over in Sweden to heat the house and shop.
Build the wife a nice greenhouse to keep her occupied before gardening season gets in to full swing. Just keep her Oliver Super 55 to haul wood and work the garden.

Mike M · Mar 21, 2013

With all of todays taxes and bills it's tough !
That's pretty much what most make here in Ohio as most jobs are in retail settings and they only pay minimum wages.
Takes all I make to pay for propane,electric,house payment incl. taxes & ins.,gas to get to work,car insurances,and of course the ever increasing health care that is deducted from my take home pay.
So far all our cars are paid up. Wifes money goes to groceries,gas for her car,hers and kids cell phones,(I don't have one)and her direct TV. Whatever else she makes I have no idea what she wastes it on ?

No wonder so many are into committing crimes ! If you get caught and go to jail you get all this for FREE !!!! Plus all day to exercise and learn how to do worse crimes !!!

This year our combined income is better then it has ever been for us,but yet we are worse off then EVER BEFORE !!! Thank you Washington !!! NOT !!!

old · Mar 21, 2013

20K I could only wish I had that coming in but I do still survive

hoof print · Mar 21, 2013

Watch where you look in Tennessee. Willason county is one of the most expensive places in the country.

In rural areas I any of the states you mentioned, it just may be possible.

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

I'm planning ahead Rich. I don't want to have to work as hard as you do.

Wile E · Mar 21, 2013

You would want a side business, like firewood cutting or grass cutting with the tractor. I assume that the $20k job would be an in town job.

old · Mar 21, 2013

Shoot I don't work hard matter of fact I can not put in a full 8 hour day any more. I do get by and do a lot and hour here and there with many many breaks. Believe me if I could have planed ahead I would have but when you become a victim of a crime that the P.A. would not do any thing about you have to do what you have to do to get by

flambeauone · Mar 21, 2013

I have alot of family that does that already here in NE Tn. Theres alot of people retiring here, most come for the nascar races in Bristol. Thats usually how they end up here after retiring. Bristol is getting a Bass Pro and a Cabelas this year, we have land near the Bass Pro development. The neighbors already have dollar signs in their eyes looking to sell out. Just watch where you buy cities here are fast to annex if theres signs of progress in an area.

jm. · Mar 21, 2013

IF the house and land and your auto were paid for YES FOR SURE. Low property taxes in Tennessee, no income tax. Utilites are cheap.
If you raised a little food would be no problem.
I can take you to several familes around that are certainly not living that hard and I doubt there over all income is much over 20 grand. In Tennessee you do have to get out from large cities like Nashville

ss55 · Mar 21, 2013

Heat won't be as much of a problem as cooling. If you are thinking of middle Tennessee (Nashville) plan on three solid months of 90+F degree days and two months of hot, humid 95-100F degree days with dew points above 70F. A light rain every afternoon bumps up the humidity. Spring and fall are very plesant, winter is mild, but the summer is brutal. Few homes have basements because the bedrock is too close to the surface.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2013

Randy, here in MO, depending how close to the big city determines a lot. I know where you can get acreage for 3k an acre but it's 30 miles from KC. However, Clinton county requires a minimum of 20 acres to build on. Clay county I think has a minimum of 3 acres but you're closer to KC and the cost per acre is much higher. The minimum acre rules for both does not apply if you are buying in a subdivsion, but then lot prices are very high. Some subdivisons have up to 10 acre lots.
If you want I can send you some areial shots from google if you want to look at the property.
This is farm land that is currently cropped but one 20 acre section does have some woods to the west and north border is woods/creek.

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

If we were to go to Missouri it would be down in the south central area,somewhere in the Gainesville,West Plains,Mansfield,Hartville,Mountain Grove area. We've been down there several times looking,loved it down there. Only trouble is,we had friends down there who used to be our neighbors up here. She died of cancer a few years ago though and he moved back up here so we don't know anybody down there anymore.

Dick L · Mar 21, 2013

If you get in the right area in Tennessee you could most likely do well. I understand there is a market for home made lacquer thinner that shouldn't be considered income.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2013

Lots of good hunting, fishing and river rafting down that way. One of our daughters and her family live in Springfield, we're planning a long weekend to go down there trout fishing.

old · Mar 21, 2013

Ya you get down that way and you can still buy land for under $3000 an acre. Taxes are cheap also I pay around $225 per year for my place but my house is not all that much either. Lots of areas down that way also where you can drive for miles before you get to a town and then that town might have a gas station and small store at best

1206SWMO · Mar 21, 2013

My wife grew up in West Plains,MO and has lots of family still living there..Its nice country with friendly people..

With little or no debt I"d say you could live on 20K per year in MO..Lots do...

old · Mar 21, 2013

I forgot to mention this. I know a guy that last fall got 45 acres of land about 7 or so miles from me and he payed $65,0000 for it. Me I would not own it since it is good for a house maybe and deer hunting no ag land at all since it is hill and the only flat land is power line right of way

larrystinescorner · Mar 21, 2013

I have dreamed of a simalar plan for many years,have the house and the land,(wife does not have the same dream) I wish you the best of luck,and maybe someday Ill stop by and visit you in the new place! Or you can take a trip and visit us!

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

When we first started going down there we could have bought vacant land for 4-6 hundred an acre. Decent ranches for $1000 an acre up to about 400 acres. Then the price per acre started falling off because the house and buildings weren't such a factor in the per acre price.
I talked to Albert a week ago,he said the house and 50 acres they bought near Lake Norfork back in the late 80s for $70,000,that he sold for 150,000 was for sale again for 265,000.
Things ain't gettin any cheaper.

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

My wife's pacing the floor wanting to go!

pete black · Mar 21, 2013

shh! don't want anyone to know this, especially those yankees heading south with a u-haul trailer, but N. Albama is a much nicer place than any of those you mentioned. however, i will vouch for you personally and welcome you. google tuscumbia, al. you will like what you see.

FarmerZeb · Mar 21, 2013

I think it could be done if you need to buy health insurance might want closer to 25K. Also need to check on the property taxes that can be a mighty sum if you are in certain states.

-paul

larrystinescorner · Mar 21, 2013

Then everthing is going to work out fine.

John B. · Mar 21, 2013

I have been off work for the last 5 months and the last two months I was on cobra health insurance and that ran us $1396.00 a month. That's just $16,752.00 a year.

You won't be able to plow much soil in South Missouri where the ground is full of rocks and taxes are cheap.

pete black · Mar 21, 2013

hey double rr, how old are you. i am on medicare with my premium deducted from ss check. i purchase a supplement from humana for $62 a month which provides very good coverage. low co-pays and good medicine coverage.

Traditional Farmer · Mar 21, 2013

Aside from the farming operation my wife and I live pretty cheap,wood heat,big garden,wife cans and freezes,eat a lot of deer meat because its cheap (price of a bullet) and its healthy meat,raise chickens,wife makes most things from scratch buy things like rice and flour in 25lb bags,have a gravity flow irrigation system from a spring on this farm for the garden.We don't go
'on vacation' because we have what we want to do here.Thats the key really is what you're satisfied with.At your new place plant lots of fruit/nut trees and berries great eating,healthy and a steady supply of something all season.

johndeereman · Mar 21, 2013

Why do you need so much money? We live in pa just bought our 2nd home with 13 acres. Its wife and I with 3kids I make just over 30k a year and the wife makes around 7k a year we have antenna tv cell phones with Internet raise our own beef haven"t had a garden in a few years but will this year with the new place. We"re not rich but the bills are paid.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2013

I have traveled most of Missouri in my former job and I'd agree with the rest of the guys about south central Missouri. Here's the kicker, though. The General Assembly is working on a major overhaul of our tax system that could make all your calculations wrong. It may or may not happen but if it does we will have a lot more sales tax and a lot less income tax. That would not be good for someone that has a low income but still needs to buy some stuff in town once in a while.

RayP(MI) · Mar 21, 2013

Bad cabin fever, eh? Relax, spring will come...
Besides, if you blow outta here, who am I gonna pick on?

old · Mar 21, 2013

I think I added one to many zeros he payed $65,000 for his 45 acres which would make it less then $1500 per acre

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

I'm just a relative youngster. Just 58.

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

I'll tell you what,I've been to Mentone and DeSoto Falls. I could have sold the tires off the truck and stayed right there. That is one super nice little town!

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

That's what I'm afraid of,spring will come. And I'll be back to working my back side off. Seems like all I ever do anymore with my life is put up hay.
Nobody said you couldn't come for a visit. I've got a lot of sunbirds around here wanting me to hurry up and move so they have a place to stop off between here and Florida.

pete black · Mar 21, 2013

nice places but too far east, however; i believe you do like the mountains. mentone, pricy?

Earl Gray · Mar 21, 2013

Tennessee has state income tax!

rrlund · Mar 21, 2013

My brother in law goes down there fishing somewhere every year. I've seen it on a map,but couldn't tell you right now just where it is.

JayinNY · Mar 21, 2013

What is P.A.? NY port authority?

Dalet · Mar 21, 2013

(quoted from post at 21:11:31 03/21/13) What is P.A.? NY port authority?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

lee little · Mar 21, 2013

I live in the area of Tn you mentioned.Plenty of people live as you describe and are happy to do so.I think I could if my animals didnt have such a high standard of living.we would be happy to have you become one of us.

LAA · Mar 21, 2013

Arkansas has high state income tax and personal property tax. I know several people that have moved to Tennessee in the last several years to escape Louisiana state income tax so the property tax must be low enough to make it worth while. Louisiana has ''homestead exemption'' on the first $75,000 in valuation, after that, property tax is cheap on rural land. Texas has no state income tax, property tax rates range from cheap to crazy depending on where you live, what county, the school district etc.

JerryS · Mar 21, 2013

Go for it. If you can find just the right place in Missouri, Arkansas or Tennessee you'd never regret it. I know for a fact people can live frugally off the land---that's how I grew up. We bought very little from town, just coffee, sugar, flour, corn meal, etc., stuff we couldn't grow or make, or that was just more practical to buy. It's the stuff you want, not the stuff you need, that'll be problematic.

At about your age I finally got my little acreage out in the country, here in north Louisiana (real close to Arkansas and Texas), and it has been as good as I imagined and hoped.
I don't live off the land; fortunately don't have to.

old · Mar 21, 2013

P.A as in the lawyer in the court house who is there to make sure the criminal goes to jail and the person who was assaulted gets his day in court. Or also known as the Prosecuting Attorney who where I live is on the take as is most of the cops

Bret4207 · Mar 22, 2013

Why would you pay for health insurance? If you want to live cheap, I wouldn't. The nnalert have repeatedly assured us that there is no jail involved for not having the insurance. Why not be the test case?

Traditional Farmer · Mar 22, 2013

For extra income you could always buy the farm in front of Old's place and set up a toll booth on the driveway(LOL)

Anonymous-0 · Mar 22, 2013

Maybe he doesn't want to take that chance. Low-wage jobs do not have health insurance but once you are 65, a medicare supplement is not too expensive. The low income people are already eligible for medicaid. If you are a veteran, south central Mo is close to Fort Leonard Wood. The VA hospital is in Columbia.

rrlund · Mar 22, 2013

Thanks. I really feel at home around there. It just keeps pulling me back. Hard as heck to leave there and come back up here.

How cheap?

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