Bluegrass Pipeline Advice needed

Yesterday I was notified that this company wants to conduct a survey of my farm and also my son's farm, with plans to run this 20" pipeline thru us. It would cross along my north side just inside the fence line, and not sure yet on his ground, but, most likely across his big hay field.
So any tips, advice, secrets, what have you that I should know about? There is a lawyer group (landowners) already formed, do I become a part of that or not??
http://www.bluegrasspipelinelawyers.com/docs/Official_Bluegrass_Proposed_Route.pdf

Whatever you do, get a GOOD lawyer. Do not negotiate by yourself. We went through that fiasco here years ago with a gas company that wanted to buy up storage priveleges in an old abandoned gas field. Some landowners got practically nothing. Do not take their first offers. Unfortunately, even the best contracts were weaseled out of over the years. Example, they bought the 40 adjacent to mine, angle drilled, and closed off my well, walked away. Said since wells did not exist on my place, contract was void.

Do not let construction start until payment is made or lawyer group is satisfied, join them. Assure the wording that crop and your land access limitations will be covered as appropriate. (If you are limited by their construction from getting to acreage, it is a cost to you. Assure in writing that they must rebuild fencing to new condition of the same type. Assure that equipment stays on their construction right-of-way (Which may be substantially wider than the easement), and is not driven off onto your land. If they do, claim the damage and take images.!!
Assure that the top soil will be stripped off and stock piled, and that the subgrade will be put back and compacted to prior levels of permeability then recovered with the top soil.
Condemnation and Imminent Domain practices are not in your best interest.
Get in writing that spill related damages and cleanup will be covered in perpetuity (including the necessary cleanup and salvage upon abandoning the line in the future)
Be careful to note in writing that damages associated with vehicles operating on the easement (not construction right-of-way). They will have wording indicating their right to travel on your property to inspect/repair.
Make a distinction between the company of record, and the construction contractor. They will not be the same, complaining to one is not the same as complaining to the other. Assure that the construction contractor has signed off on the land use requirements stated above such that they cannot claim lack of information.
I have pretty dramatic experience in this context. Jim

Join the legal group. We charge a $ 5000 entry just to enter the land for a survey so far all have paid. Make sure the pipe is buried at least 4ft they will try for 36 to 42 remember it will never produce as much, pipelines generate a lot of heat, it will take years to get rid of the compaction.
We have three miles of 24" natural gas and 3 miles of Natural Gas Liquids a few miles of other gas line.
Some companies are ok the deal with other are SOB,
Emails open I'll reply with my Phone #

Join the lawyer group and even then have your personal attorney look anything over you get that deals with the deal.

Now the good news. They pipeline people and company will LIE CHEAT OR STEAL anything they can to get you the least amount of money or rights. They want to take over all of your ground for nothing.

Have dealt with an power line easement for years. IT is a PIA. Easement clearly says where it is and how they are to access it. Have had "contractors" drive right through standing crops to get to the line. It is usually some "REDNECK" Yahoo that thinks he is out four wheeling in a company truck. Had one drove through corn a few weeks before harvest. Two sets of tracks one out and one back. 500 feet away from a mowed grass strip that the easements spells out for access. Took me two years to get paid for the damage. The company figured $150 at first. Finally paid the $1700 in damages they did.

On a pipe line. Plan on the ground it goes through to never produce anything in your life time. They will make it enough of a mess that it will not grow things right for years.

If you have any tile lines plan on them to be cut and not reconnected. Had a fiber optics pout fit do that on rented ground. Flooded a whole bottom when a 12 tile was cut/blocked. The water from two different neighbors comes down that tile.

I know we need to transfer energy but the ground game sucks. The landowner takes it in the shorts.

JD, do not sign anything you are unsure of, There is
a site I monitor that would help you with access to
alot of information. www.naturalgasforums.com
great folks, several different regions etc... you
will find more info to help you, and if not, post a
question, it is a great site for oil and gas related
issues such as yours. Good luck, and do not settle
for peanuts, make them pay!

I am a director of a gun club with 40 acres, Gas line 4 years ago wanted to cross. We joined with 88 other land owners between Green Bay, WI and Milwaukee (approx 160 linear miles).

Gas line first offer was $8,000 final settlement was $45,000.

I agree with a everything said by the other posters.

We also stated that this was an agreement for [b:e0ec2e0231]the one pipeline[/b:e0ec2e0231] any subsequent pipelines would be under a completely different contract. The pipeline companies are know to place additional pipelines later through the same path using the original agreement.

They put a 10 inch gas pipeline through my farm a few years ago.The ground pretty much belongs to them after the pipe is laid.You can never build over it and have to stay back a certain distance to do anything.They can come on your property anytime they want.They drive through my crops to dig up the pipeline to install taps for houses on the other side of the road to get gas.They make a mess,dig rocks up,cut tile and your stuck with the mess.Crops over the pipeline trench will be short for years.

I'm in the same boat. This is not a traditional gas
service line. It is for natural gas liquids to be
transported to the Gulf and exported for other
countries. Depending on where you live, this
company may not have eminent domain rights, so don't
let them bully you into signing anything. Talk to a
lawyer in your state with good references from
people you know and trust.

Be aware that this pipeline carries the byproducts of fracking. The company building it has major safety issues. While you may feel you need the money for the easement now, you may find yourself fighting this company for water in the future.
Please check out our website before you consider signing. http://stopbgpipeline.blogspot.com/
Stop the Bluegrass Pipeline

(quoted from post at 23:42:09 07/03/13) I'm in the same boat. This is not a traditional gas
service line. It is for natural gas liquids to be
transported to the Gulf and exported for other
countries. Depending on where you live, this
company may not have eminent domain rights, so don't
let them bully you into signing anything. Talk to a
lawyer in your state with good references from
people you know and trust.

Click to expand...

I really hope you are not some sort of activist with no interest in tractors...

(quoted from post at 07:40:19 07/03/13) Yesterday I was notified that this company wants to conduct a survey of my farm and also my son's farm, with plans to run this 20" pipeline thru us. It would cross along my north side just inside the fence line, and not sure yet on his ground, but, most likely across his big hay field.
So any tips, advice, secrets, what have you that I should know about? There is a lawyer group (landowners) already formed, do I become a part of that or not??
http://www.bluegrasspipelinelawyers.com/docs/Official_Bluegrass_Proposed_Route.pdf

Click to expand...

The link you posted is not working.

Do you have any existing pipelines running through your farm? Have they offered a price for the pipeline? Usually they offer it by the $/foot.

This project is not subject to eminent domain. If all they are asking for is a chance to look at the property, it will not make you vulnerable by any means.

There are several ways to look at this project, and what it means for landowners.

This is a large scale expensive project. Pipelines do not go in straight lines anymore. In fact, they resemble more of a creek, where the water follows the path of least resistance. Any lawyer group who gets involved is not getting involved for your best interest. They are getting you together for their best interests.

The path of least resistance for a pipeline is not a path that follows downhill, but the resistance comes in 2 forms: Environmental, and Monetarily.

Obviously, there are places that putting a pipe would have large environmental impacts, so the pipeline has to divert. That is, of course, if money is an object for those who are environmentally minded. Believe it or not, there are places where things happen that are not good for environmental concerns, but, local government officials look the other way, by imposing "fines" or "impact fees." In other words, it's only a concern to the environment if you can't match our steep price tag. It happens. The pipeline companies are not corrupt, it is the "environmental stewards" that can be bought.

Ask me about drilling for gas in county parks a few hundred feet from the shore of a lake.

:roll:

Then tell me who is really corrupt, is it the gas company, or the local government who took the money?

Anyhow...


following path of least resistance means that someone is going to sell out downstream of you, and upstream of you. Whether or not you think the money they offer is worth it, or whether or not you actually need the money, is up to you.


This is my best advice and then I won't say too much more on the subject...

Let them look all they want, but don't sign anything. When they come to you with an offer, completely ignore the number you see on the paper. Instead, first think of a number that they would have to offer in order for you to let them tear up a 100 foot wide swath of your farm. Give them that number. Stick to that number and don't budge. Chances are, someone around you will settle for a lot less. Then you don't have to worry anymore. If they do pay you that number you thought of, then take the money and be happy that you were compensated well.


don't be afraid to ask.

should 4 ft or more to top of pipe or cover

Please don't paint the person commenting with the idea that activism is wrong. A farmers perspective is to be respected even if it is not yours. Complicity with the Big operator, in this case an oil company, is always questionable. Our responsibility is not going with the "flow". With respect, Jim

First off, talk to a lawyer. Initial consultation is free. I am not a lawyer.

I am told that the company does not necessarily have the right to take our land through Eminent Domain. Why should they anyway? It's ours. And the project is not in the public's interest.

The project is NOT one of national energy security. Instead it is a project that will make the company and its shareholders more money. I read that the CEO of the company hopes to export the product overseas.

NGL (natural gas liquids) are used as feedstock to the petrochemical industry for making plastics, etc. We cannot heat our houses or greenhouses with it in the form it will be transported in. So, contrary to the rumors, we won't be able to tap into it for farm or residential use.

Furthermore, I have read that this company does NOT have to even prove that this NGL pipeline is needed! If they don't have to prove it is needed, how on God's green Earth can they pretend that they have the right to take our land.

Then there is the safety issue. The very recent big Louisiana petrochem plant explosion was a Williams facility. Google this...warning, it ain't pretty: williams company pipeline explosions

All I wanna do is continue to farm my land without interference from this money-grubbing company.

Respectfully,
Tim

The byproducts of fracking??? THat would be gas/oil, right??

I am still learning all about "dry" and "wet" gas...as I understand it, NGLs are considered to be "wet" and can be "cracked" to get at the various hydrocarbons. This is part of what is in NGL's from Wikipedia:

"...ethane (C2H6), propane (C3H8), normal butane (n-C4H10), isobutane (i-C4H10), pentanes and even higher molecular weight hydrocarbons..."

This map of incidents since 2010 is scary:

http://maps.fractracker.org/2.0/?appid=ce20ef6ddc824415abbb4ff51ed102e8&webmap=cf3eb5120b5b43e9bb0ae044a2ed0404

(quoted from post at 08:14:52 07/04/13) Please don't paint the person commenting with the idea that activism is wrong. A farmers perspective is to be respected even if it is not yours. Complicity with the Big operator, in this case an oil company, is always questionable. Our responsibility is not going with the "flow". With respect, Jim

Click to expand...

With all due respect, I am on a tractor forum. I see a new user pop up who has a handle concerning the pipeline, and only has 2 posts and both of which are in reply. There are people who troll the internet (troll, as in the way that you fish from a boat) looking for things about the pipeline and then toss their 2 cents in where ever they can. They post so much that the negative outweighs all others by a factor of 20 to 1. Ask me how I know?

Ask me about my State Representative, Jesse White.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013...onfronting-state-rep-white-on-internet-posts/

and before you say it is just an accusation... keep reading stories about him. He confessed...




My main point is that if someone comes here and asks as an aside about the pipeline, but is a regular poster concerning tractors, I am fine with that. When someone registers a new handle and just comes to comment on the pipeline, they can go away. It's just my personal opinion. [/url]

Wet gas is bad bad news, underwear-wise!

Thank you, John_PA. I understand your position completely. However, this is such an important issue, I would think that we all should work hard (together) to better understand the issues around the Bluegrass Pipeline.

Protecting our farmland is important to me.

Respectfully,

Tim,

Nothing I said was directed at you, regarding your membership to these boards.



I do feel for you, but you are on the right path. You are correct. This is not Eminent Domain. You are fine. Like I said, the pipeline follows the money. The path goes through the person who settles for the least amount of money. If you are concerned, tell them to go around.

I live in Burgettstown, PA. Google me. Look at what is around me. No, I don't have Stockholm Syndrome. I am just being fair.

Here is the thing. Let's say $2 million dollars worth of gas solids flows through that pipe everyday.


Let's say that it takes 720 major property owners to consent to building the pipeline.

That is $1 million per property owner, per year. IF that much flows through, each day, then it is not unreasonable for a single property owner to ask for their year payment, knowing the gas will flow for 30-40-50-60 years more.

Make sense?

Like I said, nothing will go through you if you don't want it, and yes if you are afraid keep asking, I will give you a lot more info.

I wish you could drive around my area and look to see what the royalties and lump payments have done for those who are just wishing, like you, to maintain the sanctity of their farm. It happens. It happens really good for a lot of land owners.

It is very nice.

No, I don't have that money.


Yes, NGL is dangerous, but no more dangerous than a regular high volume gas transmission line. NGL sounds terrible when you research it, but, so does Round-Up and Benzene(benzene is only legal in California in gasoline, because they can't take it out, and if you touch gasoline only in California, you die) Apparently...

The other things that sound terrible are Aromatic Hydro-flouro-carbons. In other words, if you eat barbecued pork, you ingest that, which is the burnt outside, which apparently will kill you. It's all a game of people who want to prove that everything will kill you. USC Berkley professor proved in lab mice that if you eat only broccoli and in high doses, it is also lethal.



Once you get over the initial fear-spasm and start looking at what it is, it is way better than a nuclear reactor in the living room.


If you want to actually see everything, let me know. If you have time, you can come up here to ground zero and I will give you the 10 cent tour, maybe even the 25 cent tour if I make a few phone calls.