JD 3020, or INTL 656 / 460 / 560

Anonymous-0 · Sep 27, 2013

I'm looking for a tractor to move snow, harvest firewood, and brush hog. Available right now is a JD 3020, International 656, and Farmalls 460 and 560. I believe they are all gas, but I haven't laid eyes on the Farmalls. The 3020 and 656 are gas. They won't be full-time farm machines, only used randomly as conditions require. For this topic, assume all have similar hours and are in similar condition. Which one would be "better", as in more reliable and cheaper to own? All have adequate HP, so that's not a deal maker/breaker. Thoughts?

timbernt · Sep 27, 2013

I had a 3020 gas. Still have a 656 gas hydro. The 3020 was a neat tractor to drive, especially on a rotary mower. Visibility was great. The gas motor had a lot of carbeurator problems. The 656 gas motor is better and is a just a nice reliable tractor.

Roger in Iowa · Sep 27, 2013

Do you know if the 3020 has hydraulic controls by your right elbow or are they on the left dash? By the elbow is better.

Don't be afraid of 3020 gas! Very nice and handy tractor.

JD Seller · Sep 27, 2013

I am a JD guy and I would not recommend a JD 3020 gas. The newer formulas just do not run worth a darn in the JD gas tractors. You will be fighting the carb and fouling spark plugs all of the time.

The IH gas motors seem to be giving guys fewer troubles.

I am speaking of this first hand. I had a JD gas tractor on my feed wagon for years. Then about 10 years ago it became a full time fight to keep it running decent. I even overhauled it to see if the higher compression would make it work better.

IF you set the carb where it would not foul the spark plugs it would not rev up without stumbling. If you set it to take throttle it would carbon the plugs.

These issues are part of the reason a JD 3020/4020 gas sell CHEAPER than a diesel.

Kirk Affeldt · Sep 27, 2013

I can't not speak about a 3020 but the 656 we have has been an exceptional all-around tractor for us. In it's time we have had it, the tractor has been on the mounted corn picker, tillage work, all haying functions, etc... This 656 has a Farmhand loader on it which in it's "retirement" years is the main job for it. This tractor has always had a good clutch, TA, PTO, shifting/tranny, and engine. The ONLY issue we have had with it is the discs in the brakes. Ever so often, the right brake will grab and lock up when stepped on. Easy solution, take the brake discs out and rough them up on the surface. Besides the obvious, one thing you will appreciate about the 656 over the 560/460, room on the operators platform. The 656 has been a GREAT farm tractor and I can't imagine you will be disappointed with it. Good luck!!

Tech 7 · Sep 27, 2013

Not to hijack the thread (BTW voting for 3020) but JD Seller I agree with your thoughts on the "new" gasoline in our old tractors. I fought with my 1020 for some time, even threatened a diesel conversion. The last thing I did to it was change it over to electronic ignition...this has helped a lot. Funny part of this is the fact that the all fuel tractors built and sold by Deere of years ago were sold on the fact that they would run on almost anything flammable. Nice to know that todays "gasoline" is so much "safer"

sd pete · Sep 27, 2013

656 gets my vote.

Mike M · Sep 27, 2013

Did your have the alum. MS or cast iron Zenith carb. ?

Leroy · Sep 27, 2013

Being a 2 cylinder guy I would go for the 656, Drove My uncles 3020 and hated it.

Mike M · Sep 27, 2013

I would not be affraid of the gas tractors. I actually sought one out many years ago for a loader,snow plow all around do anything machine. I don't use it much alot of times just start up run out lift something up to load or unload and then back put away again.
Found a JD 4020 then found a loader and a rear blade for it and it makes a VERY good outfit. Use it less and less alll the time but it still starts right up and has not given any problems.
One thing for sure on a JD make sure you have the cast iron Zenith carb. or budget to buy one as they are so much better.

Anonymous-0 · Sep 27, 2013

do not even look at a 460 gas they are a gutless, cold blooded dog, a 560 is a little better,I was never very fond of any Farmall gas and I wouldn't want any of the 3 Farmalls in a dsl. ,they are guys that can make a 3020 gas run, I have heard of guys putting TB injection on them, a 3020 dsl. is a very nice tractor and will be superior to any IH of the era in regard to hydraulics, handling, operator convenience ect., Case and Oliver were among the few companies that could make a gas tractor run decent

rankrank1 · Sep 27, 2013

I have no dogs in this fight:

Farmall 460 likely to burn the least gas simply due to being the lowest hp of the lot.

Farmall 656 is just as efficient in the burning of the gas of the 460 but it is higher hp so it will burn more fuel due to that.

Farmall 560: I would rather have a 656 or a Farmall 706 over one of these in a gasser.

Deere 3020: Will be most expensive of the lot by double to triple and the least fuel efficient in a gasser.

Long story short, I would be looking at the 460 and the 656.

ramtuff · Sep 27, 2013

3020 biggest gashog ever made.

rankrank1 · Sep 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 14:22:19 09/27/13) ....do not even look at a 460 gas they are a gutless, cold blooded dog, a 560 is a little better....I was never very fond of any Farmall gas and I wouldn't want any of the 3 Farmalls in a dsl. ,they are guys that can make a 3020 gas run, I have heard of guys putting TB injection on them, a 3020 dsl. is a very nice tractor and will be superior to any IH of the era in regard to hydraulics, handling, operator convenience ect., Case and Oliver were among the few companies that could make a gas tractor run decent

To elaborate on Doug's not necessarily wrong comment but possibly unfair one (and to elaborate on my previous post too):

The 460 is the evolution of the h, 300, 350 with many updates and a 6 cylinder motor added. (compared to this lineage it has the most hp and is not a gutless wonder but is more of a physically big yet relatively low hp tractor relative to its physical size. So Big/little or Little/big tractor comment jokes are pretty common but that does not necessary make it bad for some uses).

That all said: Many farmers back in the day viewed the model number 460 and mistakenly thought the 460 was of the M, 400, 450 lineage only with a 6 cylinder motor added. (The 460 is indeed a gutless wonder compared to this lineage and many people were disappointed as a result).

I fully agree with Doug in that an Oliver would possibly be better than anything you have listed thus far. Oliver 1655, 1650, or even 1600 models would be the ones I would consider.

the tractor vet · Sep 27, 2013

Of the lot you layed out it would be the 656, BUT there are things you will need to know about a Farmall to get the most out of it . Myself i never liked the shifter on the 656 , they use the old style T/A . They are easy to get on and off of , they will start in any weather if they are tuned properly . And NO THEY ARE NOT GAS HOGS. they are no worse off then your pickup working . Now as for me my PET tractor is the 706 IN GAS , i have had many and we still run two one is a 64 model and one a 67 model. They both run real well . As for the 460 -560 they are ok but i am not a fan of them as i had a 460 once and it was a nice big little tractor lacking on power world if difference between a 460 with a C221 and a 706 with a C291 and almost 4000 lbs more weight. But the one thing i never do is tell a guy what he needs .

Bob in SD · Sep 27, 2013

I have a 3020 gas, and wish I had something else instead. Very hard to get it "just right" and parts are very expensive (compared to my IH and Ford experiences). I don"t work it hard, so it might be better if I had more use for it and kept it exercised. I initially wanted gas, for winter starting.

I did the pertonix ignition, the zenith carb, tank heater, etc. I"d like to like this tractor, but you never know if it"s going to start in the winter and when it does it sucks a lot of gas.

JohnDeereJimOhio · Sep 27, 2013

I have 2 4010 gas jobs. One is a pulling tractor that is all worked over. The other I use for jobs like you said. I bought it with a wide front front and rear weights dual remotes and straight tin for 4400 it hasn"t gave me any problems yet I use it for the same jobs u said its thirsty but not as bad as my JD G

1970-1655 · Sep 27, 2013

We have never owned a JD 3020 but did have a 656 IH for several years. Ours was diesel and it was and still is my favorite of all the tractors we ever owned outside the 766 I had for a few years. A neighbor had 2 3020 gassers and he confirmed they like the gas.

I would go with a 656 out of your choices. If another option, a 766 IH is a big frame tractor with lower hp. I had a diesel for a while and really liked it but could not justify keeping it.

Anonymous-0 · Sep 27, 2013

Dad had a 460 with a Farmhand loader and you were contantly pulling out the choke and putting gas in it, it was underpowered loading round bales or anything. My 1550 Oliver with a WL40 Westendorf was no ball of fire but it would run rings around a 460 and I do know how to make a tractor run, so having run one I will stand on my position that a 460 is a dog.

Roger in Iowa · Sep 27, 2013

I must be either lucky or know what I am doing. Haven't replaced a spark plug in probably 10 years. Starts well and runs very well uses no oil and maybe never overhauled with 5000+ hours. I never use anything but premium (no alcohol). Very dependable and with narrow front a joy for mowing around trees. But mine is a 1971. Haven't bought any parts but filters and carb gasket and one set of plugs since owning it for 27 years.

blue924.9 · Sep 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 10:21:33 09/27/13) I must be either lucky or know what I am doing. Haven't replaced a spark plug in probably 10 years. Starts well and runs very well uses no oil and maybe never overhauled with 5000+ hours. I never use anything but premium (no alcohol). Very dependable and with narrow front a joy for mowing around trees. But mine is a 1971. Haven't bought any parts but filters and carb gasket and one set of plugs since owning it for 27 years.

like said, olivers, my grandpa has a 1650 gas, with westendorf loader on it, the tractor is snappy, and i absolutely LOVE the hydrual over-under shift, the hydraulics are faster (meaning the loader moves faster) than his friends 560, also one thing that makes a difference when moving snow is the oliver is HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY, which helps traction. when he moves snow he doesnt have to add weight to it most of the time. i dont really have seat time in the other types a tractors, but the oliver is nice and plush, with a user friendly control layout, also the over under is free wheeling when you go from over to under without stopping at direct, so you coast until you slow down enough to enter under gear, which is real handy if you are driving down a road and have to stop, cause then you are already in under for when you take off and you dont have to shift to under when you do stop. the other tractor he had a loader on that i have used is his 770, i dont know if it would have enough power for your needs or not, but its just as nice as the 1650 but with only a under/direct trans. my vote is for olivers and whites, and a smaller allis chalmers, as to me they are the most user oriented, or at least they felt that way to me when i sit on them, but to each his own

oldtanker · Sep 27, 2013

I did some work for a farming in KS that had a 3020. His big complaint was the lower arm shaft on the 3 point arms had to be replaced yearly. Now about everything he used on that tractor was a 3 point implement. He also had a 656 and a 560. When he decided that he didn't need that many tractors he dumped the 3020. I'd add a few more tractors into your search. Oliver had a pretty good rep on their gassers as did Case. The 706 is a nice tractor to operate and in gas are very affordable.

Rick

Ray · Sep 27, 2013

Not even close,buy the 3020,the others don't compare.The 3020 has one finger powersteering,an easy clutch,lots of parts available and it's worth something if you decide to sell it sometime.

blue924.9 · Sep 27, 2013

so does my grandma's allis wd 45, as well as almost every other tractor with power steering, besides you should have both hands on the wheel for full control :lol:

blue924.9 · Sep 27, 2013

so does my grandma's allis wd 45, as well as almost every other tractor with power steering, besides you should have both hands on the wheel for full control :lol:

blue924.9 · Sep 27, 2013

so does my grandma's allis wd 45, as well as almost every other tractor with power steering, besides you should have both hands on the wheel for full control :lol:

sammydwm · Sep 27, 2013

Have a 656 gasser and it's a sweet machine and compared to the 756 gasser it's a gas sipper.
As a kid we had a 460 gas and it was a beast, we could pull 4 bottoms along in 4th gear without a problem. It had power all day but it would go through the gas pretty fast.
I would go with the 656 over the other red stuff though.

sammydwm · Sep 27, 2013

sorry double post..

wolfman · Sep 27, 2013

Of the four tractors, the 656 is by far the best choice. They're all 40 to 50 years old, so condition is everything.

JD Seller · Sep 27, 2013

Roger you are not using your tractor very much. Your 27 years of ownership and just at 5000 hours is only 200 hours a year. Mine would see that in a litte over a month. It had over 10,000 hours on it before I started to have troubles with it running.

I know how to make a gas engine run. I could not afford to run HIGH test gas in the fuel hog. Was using two tanks a week as it was. It would run better on the Premium gas. I bought 500 gallon and ran it. The trouble was the darn fuel. The economics just did not justify the higher fuel cost per gallon per hour of usage.

I had the Zenith carb. I switched it over to electronic ignition. I tried just about every spark plug that would fit the head. If you ran it a week on a set of plugs you would be lucky. IF you leaned it down to where it would not foul plugs it would die half the time when the governor kicked in.

I bought this tractor in the late 1980s with around 2000 original hours on it. I used it everyday to feed cattle and hogs. In about 2000 I started to have issues with it running. It now had over 12,000 hours on it. So I figured it just was worn out. I tore it completely down. Replaced the valves, guides, ground the seats, new sleaves/pistons, ground the crank, all new bearings, replaced the carburetor and a new distributer. It did use less oil but would still foul the plugs unless you ran high test gas in it. Even then it was not a great running tractor.

The issue is in the combustion chamber design. I have some friends that made a JD 4020 gas pulling tractor. They made a ported, cross flow, higher compression head for it. It runs like a sewing machine. Just too bad it needs Racing fuel to do it. LOL.

I am glad some of your guys get along with a GAS 20 series JD. I will never own a another one I have to keep and use daily. I will buy an sell one but not keep it to use.

JD 3020, or INTL 656 / 460 / 560

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