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try untangeling this mess

E

ericlb

Well-known Member
another good friend of mine early this week, was going to a job in a dump truck with about a 6 or 8 year old jd dozer on his trailer, doing about 40 mph in a 55mph zone 4 lane winding road, come around a curve and found a guy lets say from south of here, way south, pulling a 8 horse trailer no lites turn signals, or brake lites turning right my friend locked her down and tried his best to miss the trailer, just clipped it a good one the horse traier disconnected and went in the ditch,on its side, the dump truck and trailer and dozer rolled, he totaled all 3 units probably a 150 to 175 thousand dollar loss at least! the horse trailer guy, no injuries, no english, and no insurance
my friend thankfully does have insurance lots of it but man!
 
You can be the best driver and still fall victim to these people. I hope his insurance pays well.

Our county seat town is full of those people. They drive around with no license and no insurance and they have the majority of the accidents. Marilyn had a minor fender bender with one of them when he backed into her. She left her car sit right there so he couldn't back out and get away. He was pleading to her to let him back out so he could go home to get money to pay her but she stood her ground. The law charged him with no license and insurance and he disappeared into thin air. Marilyn's incident is miniscule compared to your friend's problems. It just makes my blood boil. These people are getting GVT assistance. better shut up, Jim
 
No matter what the situation, if you hit someone from behind you are guilty of not having your vehicle under control. And it is very difficult to find anyone in the legal system that does not think the same way.
 
I'm with you on this Jim. I won't even go to Storm Lake anymore if I can get what I need somewhere else. Dale
 
(quoted from post at 10:08:03 01/18/14) No matter what the situation, if you hit someone from behind you are guilty of not having your vehicle under control. And it is very difficult to find anyone in the legal system that does not think the same way.
Click to expand...

I understand the anger at letting these people take our country over while we pay them to do it - I share it completely. But as a retired LEO who worked hundreds of accidents over the years I know that Dick2 is right about your responsibility to be able to stop your vehicle before you hit an unexpected obstacle. The wb should be ticketed for his violations as well, although he will simply disappear, and I understand the frustration at that, too.
 
It sounds like your friend did not have control of his truck. Was it dark out that lights would have made a difference? I have to drive my tractor on a road that has sharp curves and is tree lined. I have lights and only drive it in daylight on that road it is scary.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:41 01/18/14) another good friend of mine early this week, was going to a job in a dump truck with about a 6 or 8 year old jd dozer on his trailer, doing about 40 mph in a 55mph zone 4 lane winding road, come around a curve and found a guy lets say from south of here, way south, pulling a 8 horse trailer no lites turn signals, or brake lites turning right my friend locked her down and tried his best to miss the trailer, just clipped it a good one the horse traier disconnected and went in the ditch,on its side, the dump truck and trailer and dozer rolled, he totaled all 3 units probably a 150 to 175 thousand dollar loss at least! the horse trailer guy, no injuries, no english, and no insurance
my friend thankfully does have insurance lots of it but man!
Click to expand...
He was doing 40 mph and locked her down.
Something does not add up.
The amount of damage done does not jive with an impact at 20-30 mph.
Unless he was day dreaming and didnt get on the brakes until it was way too late he would have scrubbed off some speed.
I am not defending anybody here but lights or no lights makes no difference if you are not paying attention, it could have been your family in a car that had just stalled due to a dead battery that he flattened instead.
Bottom line is it was his fault and hopefully this incident wakes him up before he kills someone.
All winter long there are vehicles are on the road with lights covered in snow that you cant see, sometimes cleaning them off every five minutes isn't even enough.
Guess who is at fault when you run into one of them.
 
There are situations where you can hit someone in the rear and not be at fault but yes 99.9 percent of the time if you hit someone in the rear it is your fault.

From the story told the dump truck is at fault but the other driver would collect nothing from his insurance. At least that is the way it works in our state.
 
If your friend couldn't stop quickly was he overloaded or maybe either driving too fast for the conditions or traveling faster than he admits? It does sound like he hit it pretty hard.
 
Not true there is no law that says hitting a person from the rear makes you at fault. I learned that at a very early age when I hit a car that pulled right in front of me and the came to stop.
Walt
 
My insurance agent told me that you can never have enough insurance. [b:d983eb8e7e]"Most of the time", [/b:d983eb8e7e]people will sue for what they can get!
 
That is true. My insurance co suggests having enough insurance to protect MY assets.
 
What if a tree had fallen in the road? Whoever or whatever is in the road you need to be able to stop before you hit it. What I am trying to say is that I feel the need to be able to stop in the piece of the road that I can see.
Zach
 
I'd say in my state both would have gotten tickets and one a little jail time. One for defective equipment, no inspection sticker and no insurance,the other for failure to maintain contol.We are required to have uninsured motorist coverage,but it will only pay up to what ever coverage limits you want to pay for.
 
Thats true or it could have been a kid on a bike and ran over it with the truck in that case probably would have been charged with vechicular manslaughter on winding crooked roads you gotta keep it real slow.
 
Eric,
I would NOT be putting all this info on the web...a good lawyer for the horse trailer owner would be very interested in knowing how fast the truck/trailer/dozer was going "on 4 lane WINDING road". "Locking it down" and still hitting from the rear is a sure loser in court.

AND...your friend"s insurance company will be explaining to him about his new rate hike and maybe should get a new insurance company.

Know when to not throw all this info out to the world. Maybe consider having smarter friends?
LA in WI
 
Sure sucks for your friend Eric. In IL he would have been ticketed for failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident and blame would be placed on him. The other guy would have gotten several tickets as well, but he would likely avoid liability for the damages.

You didn't say if the other guy had a drivers license. Used to be if someone without a license was in an accident they were automatically at fault as they weren't supposed to be driving. I don't know what the law says now but the reality is that type of person usually gets a pass these days.
 
I carry maximum coverage plus $5 million umbrella. As someone said you got to protect your assets.
 
of course insurance company's want you to buy a lot of insurance. after having been sued numerous times and suing others I am convinced that having a lot of insurance is like a magnet for law suits. Lawyers first question is how much insurance and then end up wanting to settle for that amount or less.
therefore i go minimal on my auto insurance and just $100k liability on my property's---have yet to find a lawyer that has gone above the insurance coverage.
 
What about the guy that owned both the truck and horse trailer? Where is he in all this? Lots of bad judgement in this one.
 
So? Apparently he was still going too fast if he couldn't stop.The Max speed limit doesn't mean that it can be driven all the time or even close to it.Also he was towing a load which makes it harder to stop so that calls for a much lower speed
 
So would 20 in a 55 be slow enough..Then he would be the one that got run in to..We werent there so we really dont know what happened...Was it after dark or in broad daylight?Lots of unanswered questions here..
 
Sounds like here. Dump truck driver would be ticketed for failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident or too fast for conditions (winding road--heavy vehicle) or something like that--might be dropped if he goes to court and his insurance supplies a letter that they are accepting responsibility saving him points on his license. But given his insurance accepts responsibility he'll get insurance points anyway and his rates will go up. This is due to differences in a criminal vs a civil trial if things went to court. Criminally he might be able to fight the ticket and win but the insurance company worries about civil suits which would be closer to dump truck guy proving his innocence vs the horse trailer guy proving the dump truck guy was guilty. And unless it was night time that unlikely. They expect you to be able to stop to avoid and accident do matter what the other driver is doing.

The horse trailer guy would be cited for no lights, no insurance but he wouldn't be liable for the accident.

Sucks. really sucks. We have to be on-guard 24/7 for stupid actions by others and make sure they don't lead us to being involved in an accident.
 
Sounds like here. Dump truck driver would be ticketed for failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident or too fast for conditions (winding road--heavy vehicle) or something like that--might be dropped if he goes to court and his insurance supplies a letter that they are accepting responsibility saving him points on his license. But given his insurance accepts responsibility he'll get insurance points anyway and his rates will go up. This is due to differences in a criminal vs a civil trial if things went to court. Criminally he might be able to fight the ticket and win but the insurance company worries about civil suits which would be closer to dump truck guy proving his innocence vs the horse trailer guy proving the dump truck guy was guilty. And unless it was night time that unlikely. They expect you to be able to stop to avoid and accident do matter what the other driver is doing.

The horse trailer guy would be cited for no lights, no insurance but he wouldn't be liable for the accident.

Sucks. really sucks. We have to be on-guard 24/7 for stupid actions by others and make sure they don't lead us to being involved in an accident.
 
Strange no one mentioned it but I hope the horse trailer was empty? I had an accident once where a guy was stopped at a green light and it was icy. I tried to jump the curb but slid along it. The guy couldn't speak very good English until he showed up at the police station. He did manage to say he was just getting ready to turn at the accident but at the police station when asked, he said he was going straight through. It had been a green light for almost a minute by the time I got there.
 
(quoted from post at 08:32:24 01/18/14)
(quoted from post at 10:08:03 01/18/14) No matter what the situation, if you hit someone from behind you are guilty of not having your vehicle under control. And it is very difficult to find anyone in the legal system that does not think the same way.
Click to expand...

I understand the anger at letting these people take our country over while we pay them to do it - I share it completely. But as a retired LEO who worked hundreds of accidents over the years I know that Dick2 is right about your responsibility to be able to stop your vehicle before you hit an unexpected obstacle. The wb should be ticketed for his violations as well, although he will simply disappear, and I understand the frustration at that, too.
Click to expand...

As a guy who was a LEO for over 20 and investigated thousands of accidents, let me fine tune that post a little.

I don't know how it works elsewhere, but in my state the investigating LEO can put down on the accident report ALL the contributing factors and can make clear just what happened. In a case like the OP, in my state the horse trailer would be ticketed and arraigned as no insurance is a big deal here. And as a former DOT Trooper, I can say that the CVEU or whoever does CMV's would be there putting the blocks to him too.

In cases like this where both parties share blame it's always a big can of worms.
 
(quoted from post at 10:01:03 01/18/14) Interesting responses. Just yesterday it was the farmers fault for being in the road with no lights. Go figure.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking the same thing. :p
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:34 01/18/14) Not true there is no law that says hitting a person from the rear makes you at fault. I learned that at a very early age when I hit a car that pulled right in front of me and the came to stop.
Walt
Click to expand...

Not quite Walt. It depends on the circumstances. The following vehicle is supposed to be far enough back to stop. If he can't, it's either him or the brakes, unless there's some deal like the other guys brake likes not working, but even then it's pretty iffy.
 
According to the original post he clearly saw the trailer just couldn't stop before hitting it.As I said that trailer could have been anything like a
kid on a bike or someone walking on the road or a big ole tree limb that fell across the road.Lots of unexpected hazards on narrow crooked roads.I live on road much like the one described and its a short cut to a major hiway and at least a couple times a year some idiot running to fast does a similar thing or sometimes they meet like a couple years ago two cars that wanted the 'center' lane met at the top of a knoll just past my drivway.
 
If this was in broad daylight on a dry 4 lane hiway going 15 mph under the speed limit should be plenty safe...I would say if anything the guy wasnt paying attention and probably was following too closely..

In safe conditions try driving 20 mph or even less under the speed limit and see what happens..On a 2 lane road traffic will be backed up forever and some fool will try to pass on a hill..I had it happen to me...On a 4 lane road someone wont be paying attention and plow you from behind..Thats actually happened to several people I know.

I've had several kids dart in front of me in town and barely got stopped even with a car going 30 mph..A semi and truck and trailer arent going to get stopped..

I often pull a loaded trailer and I drive 5-10 mph under the limit and in town I go 15 mph under the limit..In towns is where you see some crazy things..The secret is drive 1/4th mile ahead and stay way behind the vehicle in front of you..I've had people do some stupid things in front of me but have always gotten stopped..

I'm lucky to live in fairly level open country where visibility is great..
 


"Drive a quarter mile ahead" always makes good sense regardless of conditions."Leave plenty of distance between you and the vehicle ahead of you", also good sense but any trucker will tell you that space ahead of you is an invitation to anyone behind you to fill.
Something I've never understood about where the fault lies when someone hits a vehicle from behind.If you are at a 3 or 4 way intersection and you don't have to stop but cross trafic does and he pulls out in front of you,you broadside him it's his fault.If he manages to make a 90* turn in front of you,going the same direction as you at 15 MPH and you collide with him,it's your fault.Someone enlighten me please.
 


"Drive a quarter mile ahead" always makes good sense regardless of conditions."Leave plenty of distance between you and the vehicle ahead of you", also good sense but any trucker will tell you that space ahead of you is an invitation to anyone behind you to fill.
Something I've never understood about where the fault lies when someone hits a vehicle from behind.If you are at a 3 or 4 way intersection and you don't have to stop but cross trafic does and he pulls out in front of you,you broadside him it's his fault.If he manages to make a 90* turn in front of you,going the same direction as you at 15 MPH and you collide with him,it's your fault.Someone enlighten me please.
 
I must just be getting grumpy in my old age, but most of these posts are ticking me off.
The guy driving the dump truck was only going 40 in 55. How slow do you have to go to be safe? I guess if you wanted to be sure that you never hit anything, ever, no matter what the circumstances, you should probably never drive over 10 mph.
Also, if you need to be able to stop instantly, nobody really needs to have working brake lights or turn signals, you just have to drive slow enough to anticipate what every other driver is going to do before they do it.
No matter what the law says, you know as well as I do that the guy with the horse trailer was at fault.
 
(quoted from post at 16:32:57 01/19/14) I must just be getting grumpy in my old age, but most of these posts are ticking me off.
The guy driving the dump truck was only going 40 in 55. How slow do you have to go to be safe? I guess if you wanted to be sure that you never hit anything, ever, no matter what the circumstances, you should probably never drive over 10 mph.
Also, if you need to be able to stop instantly, nobody really needs to have working brake lights or turn signals, you just have to drive slow enough to anticipate what every other driver is going to do before they do it.
No matter what the law says, you know as well as I do that the guy with the horse trailer was at fault.
Click to expand...

We are all getting grumpy with time behind us but that has nothing to do with the cause of this accident.
If the driver had a good reaction time and was paying attention he probably could have avoided the accident travelling 70 mph.
Deer, elk, moose etc dont have working taillights yet we avoid them on a daily basis and we dont have any super powers to achieve this, nor do we drive around at 10 mph.
If you can't see an eight horse trailer on the road in front of you and for the benifit of the doubt we will assume it was dark out maybe even foggy or blowing snow then he was going too fast for the conditions or over driving his headlights, or most likley not exercising due care and attention.
Bottom line he screwed up and hopefully he learns from his mistake.
How would have this played out if he was driving a motorcycle instead of a tandem. Simple he would be dead at which time who gives a --- who was at fault. Self preservation is up to you.
 
We had a trucker wipe out 6 people year before last up here in a construction zone. The zone was well marked for a least a mile back, clear summer day and he had at least 1/2 mile where he could see the traffic stopped ahead. He nailed them at full speed. Of course he walked away with minor injuries. I think they ended up convicting him of one minor traffic charge. Based on my experience, I imagine he was reading his electronic "boss" seeing where he was headed next or something.

Things happen.

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Route-11-Closed-Due-To-Multi-Car-Accident-Near-Antwerp-163030156.html
 
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