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charlie n

Well-known Member
Friend told me he got propane Friday morning.He was only alowed 200 gallons to the tune of $3.69 a gallon.He ordered 2 weeks ago but it got delivered to his brother next door.They gave him the pryer price on account of there mistake.The posted price for Friday was $4.09.
He lives 3 miles from me and 1.5 miles from the natural gas line.Ameron says not enough customers to justify a line to them.

Northwestern Madison county Illinois.
 
Yeah,

Someone explain to me how a 'shortage' should increase the price?.......Other than flat out gouging.

Allan
 
For the first time in my life I ran out this past week (stuck gauge). This is a real problem as I have hot water heat and no way to keep the pipes from freezing in sub zero weather without draining the system.

I called several suppliers that I sometimes buy from (own tank). Prices were all over the map, but mostly $3.50 - $4.00/gal, and most suppliers wanted to charge emergency delivery fee of up to $350 plus pressure test fee of $150. No one would guarantee delivery in less than 24 hours even with the $350 emergency delivery fee.

Finally, I called a well established local company that began to offer propane only this past summer. Their price was $2.99/gal and they delivered in two hours with no extra fees.

Though I could have bought propane for about $1.60 if I had bought it a couple of weeks prior, I feel quite lucky in retrospect as prices are now $6.00 - $7.00 with 100 - 200 gallon limits in some areas nearby.

Dean
 
Blame this on who you want ,but I blame the Congress and Senate. You know that 1/2 of them are milloionaires many times over,they have the inside track and can control alot of things and we the people that elected them make them richer. They can do what they want.
 
Supply and demand my bazzt! There is a lot more to it than that! We are still in a natural gas glut and I think they are finding ways to slow production to MAKE a shortage.
 
(quoted from post at 13:00:53 01/26/14) Yeah,

Someone explain to me how a 'shortage' should increase the price?.......Other than flat out gouging.

Allan
Click to expand...
Same as with your farm produce. A shortage of livestock or crops raises the prices doesn't it?
Do you still sell at the lower price or take advantage of the higher price if the shortage goes your way?
 
If there is 10 of something around and only 9 people want it the price goes down but if 2 more decide they want it too then 11 people want what there is only 10 of so the price will go up until one of them decides the price is past their limit.
Any good business prices their product at the maximum price that it will sell at and propane,oil, Natural gas etc companies are no different.Anyway 'gouging' is in the eyes of the beholder as a livestock guy I'd say $7 corn is gouging but the grain guys just think its what they ought to be getting.
 
Propane and natural gas(methane etc.) come out of the same well. So if there is a glut of natural gas there is less production of both gasses.
 
I live in Eastern WV and we have been paying mid 3.oo for propane for the last several years.I think you guys out west have been spoiled on low prices,and even on the price of gas

jimmy
 
Allan there is not really a shortage. They just didn't plan well enough to get the supply up here sooner.

After harvest they dilly dallied around pumping LP back up here.

If you have the trucks or rail cars you can go to Texas and fill up for $1.60 a gallon.

I heard the lines are growing down there as well. They have product just didn't get it here.

Gary
 
I dont know if I would call it spoiled. It gets to 20 below here in the winter at times. A person is supposed to pay about a 1/4 or more of their income just to have heat in the winter? Possibly there is more pipelines in this area than other places? I dont doubt most anything within a couple of states of D.C. would cost more, as it is close to Washington money. There was a program on Standard Oil on the history channel a couple years ago. That company had enough of a hold on oil that there were places that they controlled the rail road so they could strangle the competition into doing what they wanted. There is corruption, even when one doesnt see it.
 
One wonders if this is going to be the new norm. Basically the same thing happened with gasoline and diesel. When you think about it, why should gasoline or diesel have stayed at $1.50? There was a gap between gasoline and diesel, diesel being cheaper (heating fuel as well). Now diesel is more expensive than gasoline. When you compare the price of diesel to propane, there is a very wide gap....until now. I hate to say it but Im guessing they will gauge what people will pay, the price will drop some in the future but not as cheap as it was before, then it will raise and drop some again but not as much. That is exactly what happened with other fuel, shortage or no shortage.
 
I wondered about that as well. The cattle market must really be doing good... (?) I remember years ago when hogs were down to about 20 cents. Pork chops in the grocery store were $3.99 a pound. I made a comment to my mom about it in front of the butcher that the farmer wasnt getting nearly anything for hogs and these are almost $4.00 a pound? The butcher just grumbled and said Well, thats what the price is. ( We've never raised hogs just beef cattle )
 
Selling at market value is never gouging really in my opinion.Like Ammo I bought a large order from Midway about 3 years ago and could sell it for a whole lot more than I paid for it,I guess some people would say thats gouging but I bought it on the open market just like anyone else could have at the time.I'll be saying the same thing when Gold goes to $5,000 an ounce.(LOL)
Those that fail to plan and have no foresight should expect to have to pay a 'Stupidity Premium'.I've had to pay that premium a couple times and try to avoid it as much as possible.
 
(quoted from post at 14:36:22 01/26/14) Propane and natural gas(methane etc.) come out of the same well. So if there is a glut of natural gas there is less production of both gasses.
Click to expand...

propane is refined from crude or extracted from "wet" natural gas.
 
If you don't want to pay 1/4 of your income to heat with you can
1)Buy a wood stove
2)Get a heavy coat and longjohns
3)Get a better paying job
4)Move farther away from the Artic Circle
5)All of the above(LOL)
 
I agree. When the people who can control the supply...yes contol the supply...create a shortage...HOW is that supply and demand? It is a shortage....a distribution shortage.
 
Wasn"t $7.00 corn market value?

Seems to be two standards here.

If we are selling high it is okay. If we buy high it is gouging.

By the way I am happy the livestock guy is getting high prices as should all farmers.

And I am a meat consumer not seller.

Gary
 
(quoted from post at 10:38:42 01/26/14) Blame this on who you want ,but I blame the Congress and Senate. You know that 1/2 of them are milloionaires many times over,they have the inside track and can control alot of things and we the people that elected them make them richer. They can do what they want.
Click to expand...

Do you really want Congress or other politicians manipulating the price of everything? Not a good idea. Want them to look into gouging? Fine, but not setting prices. That's a recipe for disaster, worse than what we already have.
 
(quoted from post at 14:36:22 01/26/14) Propane and natural gas(methane etc.) come out of the same well. So if there is a glut of natural gas there is less production of both gasses.
Click to expand...

Yes and no.
From Wikipedia

Sources

Propane is produced as a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing and petroleum refining. The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, in order to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil. The supply of propane cannot easily be adjusted to meet increased demand, because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced.[citation needed] The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year, with about 70% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 30% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.

After it is produced, North American propane is stored in huge salt caverns. Examples of these are Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta; Mont Belvieu, Texas and Conway, Kansas. These salt caverns were hollowed out in the 1940s,[8] and they can store 80,000,000 barrels (13,000,000 m3) or more of propane.
 
(quoted from post at 18:18:20 01/26/14) If you don't want to pay 1/4 of your income to heat with you can
1)Buy a wood stove
2)Get a heavy coat and longjohns
3)Get a better paying job
4)Move farther away from the Artic Circle
5)All of the above(LOL)
Click to expand...

I agree. People want it both ways. Free market to sell high and socialist protectionism to ensure low purchase prices.
 
You should be happy livestock prices are up as it will eventually mean grain goes back up but when grain goes up it only means less profit for cattle.Plus cattle farmers don't get the Gov't Goodies as a backup like crop supports,ethanol mandates and Federal Crop Insurance.
 

Virtually everything we buy has to be purchased for the vendor by a buyer who buys it from a manufacturer or broker. The buyer is responsible for keeping adequate stocks on hand, and if he doesn't the companies management and customers will not be pleased. Not a tough job most of the time. But when whatever condition slows production or transport, the buyers sometimes have to go to the market where they have to bid against other buyers in order to buy their product. This along with speculators on this market is where prices get set and driven up and down. Unless you buy ahead, as Traditional Farmer did, you have to pay the price. If you did not buy ahead don't try to blame someone else for your lack of foresight. If you want government to control prices go to a communist country.
 
It is fine to buy ahead but not everyone in the world has the finances to do just that. There have been posts on here that even prepaid customers will be limited so it doesnt guarantee delivery. The goverment doesnt have to control prices but who is to police gouging? The government isnt supposed to be there to wipe your nose but is supposed to be there to prevent monopolies. And no not all of it is gouging...but it is there in some places. As far as foresight....there isnt a person alive that could foresee over a 300 percent rise in propane. If they could they should predict the weather.
 
I dont "expect" a low purchase price. It goes up it goes up that is to be expected. It is when people start to take advantage of it. As far as free market to sell high...I dont have propane to sell.
 
I have some friends that are in their early 30's. They've done very well for themselves but I often wonder about their priorities. They never get their propane tank filled in the summer when prices are down. They my buy some, but they never fill it. They say they can't afford to fill it. I asked if they had enough propane to make it through the winter. They do not. Their supplier is limiting them to 100 gallons this month. They didn't buy any last month because they spent money on something else. So that 100 gallons they're getting will cost $395. What is cheaper, finding a way to fill the tank at $1.50 a gallon in June or buying a little at a time at $3.95? The next hundred gallons may cost them $500. A good argument can be made that some people can't afford to not fill up in the off season. It's all about priorities.
 
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