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Question about a pull-type forage for hay alternative

N

NewEnglandFarmer

Member
I"m asking this question because I genuinely don"t know..

I"ve been haying for a number of years now, and after last years record low, my wheels got turning. I see the "pull-type forage" implements seem to come through with either a corn head or a hay head. In what application would a hay head be used? I"m guessing similar to corn silage for cows? If that"s the case, how would stacked hay silage not get moldy?
If that is in fact the proper application, is the preparation steps similar to baling? ie cutting, tedding, raking?? Does the hay have to be just as dry? or is the idea behind hay forage so that it can be picked up wet?
 
Cut with swather and chop when the moisture is right, can set a day or two. Otherwise you direct cut and take moisture as it comes. You can cut for hay and if the weather turns bad, make silage. My Dad was older when I was a kid and he just blew the hay into the big old barns and walked it down. Made it easy for him. He took old houses and put a leanto on 3 sides and took a chainsaw and cut holes in the walls for the cows to self feed, then forked the hay out to the outside walls. He didn't have to handle bales....James
 
Alright thanks,

I take it that can be used for goats as well??

I would probably cut for hay and just make the silage during bad weather, I assume I couldn't pick up soaked hay.

I'm guessing the silage would keep just as long as baled hay? depending on moisture of course.

Is this also called "green chopping"??
 
We chop our green grass after a 24 hour wilt and it makes lovely silage at about 30% dry matter. We normally just mow and lift .....
Sam
 
What is the proper method to test the moisture percentage? (you can tell I've never dealt with corn before).
When you say "24 hour wilt", you mean a day after it's been cut??
 
No, green chopping is cutting lets say, second cut hay off the field with a flail chopper blowen into a self unloading wagon, there's no drying time at all, but you have to feed it before it molds. As they say bringing the pasture to the cows.!
 
Goats and sheep are far more susceptible to certain kinds of problems from mold and so forth. Silage can have that very easily.
Some goat producers shy away from silage. If you are a novice with silage feeding goats could cause problems for you.
 
Ensiling grass (or corn, or anything else) is simply making sauerkraut out of it- letting it ferment in the absence of oxygen. With grass, it should be between 30 and 50% moisture- any drier, and it will mold (or heat up and possibly spontaneously combust), any wetter and it will not cure properly and will spoil and just be a gooey mess. Moisture probes are readily available at farm supply stores. Usually best to cut it and leave it in the swath, check the moisture, and chop it when its right.

If you are making hay, and it gets rained on, if the grass itself is less than 30% moisture, it won't cure properly- moisture extraneous to the plant matter doesn't count in the calculation.

You have to store it so it won't get oxygen- upright silo, pit silo, or round bales wrapped in plastic. If you're going to do it on a small scale, I think you can still get silage bags from Ag Bag Corp., put the round bale in the bag, and suck the air out with a shop vac. Not real speedy, but virtually no investment (other than the round baler, which you can also use for hay). Larger operations use another implement to pick up and wrap the bales in plastic.

Good feed for cattle, goats and sheep, but not for horses- not being ruminants, they can't digest it properly.
 
Thanks Mike,
Because proposed hay that gets rained on is not optimal for silage, this probably isn't the process for me. I was more in the market for a plan B for baling
 
Green chopping is daily chopping/feeding with a feeder wagon, using a direct cut flail chopper that blows the cut material into the feeder wagon. Some people even chopped twice a day to keep it fresh. Any cutting can be used.

Ensiling haylage uses either a silo or silage bag. Stave silo requires wetter material to minimize spoiling.....maybe 65% moisture. Harvestore or bags can handle drier material....50% or so. If you just chop and pile it....it looks and tastes like it"s already been through the cow. Easy to make stave silage like that too.
 
I think you should look at adding acid to your baler. Can bale up to 30% in a real pinch but makes 20% quite safe to do.
 
The only way you can make real bad silage is to let the air get at it and spoil it. We have a wet climate in Northern Ireland/ The British isles.....Sometimes we have to lift the grass with it raining on us and the silage is still OK, but we do have an effluent problem. Back in the 60s-80s we actually chopped the grass direct with either a single chop flail chopper or a double chop which cut then chopped and blew the grass into the trailers. We made good enough silage even in showery weather but we killed a lot of fish! Our Government clamped down and now we try to wilt and lift the grass. We don't see any better cow health or any more milk! Look up silage cutting in Ireland on Utube...........Sam
 
How many acres, what equipment do you have, and most important....what are your storage options? One person"s answer in particular, tells me he hasn"t made haylage.
 
Only about 10 acres. JD mo/co, tedder, rake, JD baler. Zero storage for silage now. However, for my small scale I can't imagine too much for an investment. Whatever the cost it would probably be better than a few more awful years like this past one baling.
If I was to invest in a pull type forager, any model that comes recommended? Brand name is not important, I just want available parts
 
I agree, you can put it up much wetter if the effluent can get away- but for a small operation doing it in sealed bags, the effluent just sits there, and, well, you get the idea. . .

I think a lot of operations around here, with climate similar to yours, would benefit from grass silage early in the season, but few do it any more. The most successful dairy I know had three bunkers- one for last years grass, one for corn, and one for this year's grass- and they made silage whenever there was any ready to make. They made more money than any other dairy I knew.
 
Don't you have any small bale wrappers in New England? Even damp hay makes good silage in these wrapped bales. I make some every year for horse feed as Haylage, It ensures the horses don't get any dusty hay!!!!........Sam
a148126.jpg

a148128.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 15:12:13 03/05/14) Thank you,

would you have any suggestions for my situation?? or would you recommend just stick with baling and hope for the best?
Click to expand...

Silage could still be your "Plan B". eight hours after mowing the forecast goes bad on you. Isn't that the way it works? so instead of waiting for it to rain, you let it wilt down for two more hours then go chop it and get it into whatever air tight storage you decide on. Another option is to make baleage. Also sometimes called marshmallows. Assuming you see them in your area.
 
What is your intended end use? Feeding to your own stock, or selling it? If feeding, I"d consider upgrading your baler to one that can handle making baleage, and use plastic wrap. If selling, is there a market nearby for baleage?
 
I think the biggest issue you would have with haylage, would be storage and then how fast can you use it?

So much needs to be taken off the face of a bag or off the top of a silo every day to keep it fresh, otherwise you get spoilage. On 10 acres, you may be able to get a 8' bag, maybe 100 ft. long depending on how it piles up from 10 acres. Every year we do our 1st crop in either a 9 or 10' bag, 200 feet long. We might get 25-30 acres in one.

If you go the bagger route, it takes a stout tractor to run it. Not a big problem, as we rent one to run it because our big tractor is on the chopper. You also need wagons. A decent chopper box that can handle haylage is gonna be the most expensive part, unless you are faithful at attending auctions when you should be in the field doing hay.

We got a NH 892 2 years ago for $700, with a hay pick up and electric controls. Last year I found another for parts with another, better, hay head for $200. Those are steals and don't come around often. Wagons never seem to come up cheap unless worn out and junk. For a 16 or 18' wagon, if there is ANY road travel, you also need a larger tractor for hauling. We use a Massey 285 for hauling, and even that can be a bit undersize if you have to stop fast. An 18' wagon loaded with haylage can go upwards of 20,000-24,000 lbs.

We cut with a 14' hydra-swing, let it sit for 2 days (first crop), chop with with our 105 HP Oliver 1855, haul with the 285, and run a rented Ag Bagger with a rented IH 986. The total cost for the bagger, tractor + fuel, and bag is upwards of $1500. Makes excellent feed and the cows love it.

If it's getting dry while chopping and it rains, it sure does help. It also helps us get 1st crop done sooner, for when we want to plow under a feild and put it in corn yet.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
(quoted from post at 10:57:07 03/05/14) I"m asking this question because I genuinely don"t know..

I"ve been haying for a number of years now, and after last years record low, my wheels got turning. I see the "pull-type forage" implements seem to come through with either a corn head or a hay head. In what application would a hay head be used? I"m guessing similar to corn silage for cows? If that"s the case, how would stacked hay silage not get moldy?
If that is in fact the proper application, is the preparation steps similar to baling? ie cutting, tedding, raking?? Does the hay have to be just as dry? or is the idea behind hay forage so that it can be picked up wet?
Click to expand...

I'm not is New England proper, but pretty darn close and with the same weather issues. I'm also looking at alternatives after last year disastrous hay season. We raise sheep and my wife has goats, along with a few cattle. Initial expense may be a factor. Choppers aren't cheap, not reliable ones anyway. small guys like us have to figure it's gonna be $1-2K for a fair used machine. You might luck onto a bargain, you might not. Then there's the wagon to chop into. Self unloaders are pretty high priced and anything under $1500.00 or so is going to be in need of a rebuild. You may be able yo get away with blowing it onto a hay wagon with some sides scabbed onto it and forking it off by hand, but that's going to slow you down a lot and we're talking about saving hay here. Then there's the storage system- baggers are very, very expensive, require a lot of HP you may not have access to and will never, ever be available for rent when you need one. Same for custom hire guys. They're going to take care of the guy paying the most first. You come later and there goes the quality. A silo or pit has it's own costs. Wrapped bales are an option though and you wouldn't need the chopper or wagons. But that means getting a wrapper or renting one (with the same availability issues) and a baler that will handle silage bales. In a round baler that means a fairly new machine for the most part-$$$. Any small square baler will likely make green bales, but then you get into the wrapping. That little McHale rig Samm showed looks slick, but I've never seen one stateside. I have seen pics of guys who used a round bale table, sort of a giant sized lazy susan, to wrap bales manually. That might work but it's a lot of labor and slow and your hay will be heating in the bale while you're on bale #1 of 350!. Then there's the cost of the wrap and of disposing of the wrap, the problem of where and how you store them too. Big rounds require a loader to move them and the loader is pretty much going to have to have a grapple since you can't jab the wrapped bale with a spear and poke a hole in the wrap. A wrapped small square is going to be heavy and awkward to handle. How are you going to stack them, where and can you do it alone or will you need help?

There are no quick and easy and cheap answers. I'm going to be reading and seeing what suggestions you get and hoping I get some answers myself!
 
(quoted from post at 05:41:51 03/06/14)
(quoted from post at 10:57:07 03/05/14) I"m asking this question because I genuinely don"t know..

I"ve been haying for a number of years now, and after last years record low, my wheels got turning. I see the "pull-type forage" implements seem to come through with either a corn head or a hay head. In what application would a hay head be used? I"m guessing similar to corn silage for cows? If that"s the case, how would stacked hay silage not get moldy?
If that is in fact the proper application, is the preparation steps similar to baling? ie cutting, tedding, raking?? Does the hay have to be just as dry? or is the idea behind hay forage so that it can be picked up wet?
Click to expand...



I'm not is New England proper, but pretty darn close and with the same weather issues. I'm also looking at alternatives after last year disastrous hay season. We raise sheep and my wife has goats, along with a few cattle. Initial expense may be a factor. Choppers aren't cheap, not reliable ones anyway. small guys like us have to figure it's gonna be $1-2K for a fair used machine. You might luck onto a bargain, you might not. Then there's the wagon to chop into. Self unloaders are pretty high priced and anything under $1500.00 or so is going to be in need of a rebuild. You may be able yo get away with blowing it onto a hay wagon with some sides scabbed onto it and forking it off by hand, but that's going to slow you down a lot and we're talking about saving hay here. Then there's the storage system- baggers are very, very expensive, require a lot of HP you may not have access to and will never, ever be available for rent when you need one. Same for custom hire guys. They're going to take care of the guy paying the most first. You come later and there goes the quality. A silo or pit has it's own costs. Wrapped bales are an option though and you wouldn't need the chopper or wagons. But that means getting a wrapper or renting one (with the same availability issues) and a baler that will handle silage bales. In a round baler that means a fairly new machine for the most part-$$$. Any small square baler will likely make green bales, but then you get into the wrapping. That little McHale rig Samm showed looks slick, but I've never seen one stateside. I have seen pics of guys who used a round bale table, sort of a giant sized lazy susan, to wrap bales manually. That might work but it's a lot of labor and slow and your hay will be heating in the bale while you're on bale #1 of 350!. Then there's the cost of the wrap and of disposing of the wrap, the problem of where and how you store them too. Big rounds require a loader to move them and the loader is pretty much going to have to have a grapple since you can't jab the wrapped bale with a spear and poke a hole in the wrap. A wrapped small square is going to be heavy and awkward to handle. How are you going to stack them, where and can you do it alone or will you need help?

There are no quick and easy and cheap answers. I'm going to be reading and seeing what suggestions you get and hoping I get some answers myself!
Click to expand...

Brett, last summer I saw some wrapped small squares at my cousin's farm in Guidhall VT. He bought them from someone local there. I also have seen small wrapped rounds in the Cotswolds of UK. They were the same idea as what Samn showed, using a small Italian round baler.
 
(quoted from post at 05:56:10 03/06/14)
(quoted from post at 05:41:51 03/06/14)
(quoted from post at 10:57:07 03/05/14) I"m asking this question because I genuinely don"t know..

I"ve been haying for a number of years now, and after last years record low, my wheels got turning. I see the "pull-type forage" implements seem to come through with either a corn head or a hay head. In what application would a hay head be used? I"m guessing similar to corn silage for cows? If that"s the case, how would stacked hay silage not get moldy?
If that is in fact the proper application, is the preparation steps similar to baling? ie cutting, tedding, raking?? Does the hay have to be just as dry? or is the idea behind hay forage so that it can be picked up wet?
Click to expand...



I'm not is New England proper, but pretty darn close and with the same weather issues. I'm also looking at alternatives after last year disastrous hay season. We raise sheep and my wife has goats, along with a few cattle. Initial expense may be a factor. Choppers aren't cheap, not reliable ones anyway. small guys like us have to figure it's gonna be $1-2K for a fair used machine. You might luck onto a bargain, you might not. Then there's the wagon to chop into. Self unloaders are pretty high priced and anything under $1500.00 or so is going to be in need of a rebuild. You may be able yo get away with blowing it onto a hay wagon with some sides scabbed onto it and forking it off by hand, but that's going to slow you down a lot and we're talking about saving hay here. Then there's the storage system- baggers are very, very expensive, require a lot of HP you may not have access to and will never, ever be available for rent when you need one. Same for custom hire guys. They're going to take care of the guy paying the most first. You come later and there goes the quality. A silo or pit has it's own costs. Wrapped bales are an option though and you wouldn't need the chopper or wagons. But that means getting a wrapper or renting one (with the same availability issues) and a baler that will handle silage bales. In a round baler that means a fairly new machine for the most part-$$$. Any small square baler will likely make green bales, but then you get into the wrapping. That little McHale rig Samm showed looks slick, but I've never seen one stateside. I have seen pics of guys who used a round bale table, sort of a giant sized lazy susan, to wrap bales manually. That might work but it's a lot of labor and slow and your hay will be heating in the bale while you're on bale #1 of 350!. Then there's the cost of the wrap and of disposing of the wrap, the problem of where and how you store them too. Big rounds require a loader to move them and the loader is pretty much going to have to have a grapple since you can't jab the wrapped bale with a spear and poke a hole in the wrap. A wrapped small square is going to be heavy and awkward to handle. How are you going to stack them, where and can you do it alone or will you need help?

There are no quick and easy and cheap answers. I'm going to be reading and seeing what suggestions you get and hoping I get some answers myself!
Click to expand...

Brett, last summer I saw some wrapped small squares at my cousin's farm in Guidhall VT. He bought them from someone local there. I also have seen small wrapped rounds in the Cotswolds of UK. They were the same idea as what Samn showed, using a small Italian round baler.
Click to expand...

I've seen pictures of small wrapped squares, but I've never seen the rig like Samm showed for sale. Doesn't mean they aren't, but they don't appear to be common.
 
Dont know if they are still available but used to
be able to get bags for individual round bales. Use
a shop vac to draw the excess air out and tie them
off. If you're careful you can reuse them too. More
labor intensive than a wrapper but no investment
either.
 
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