Live hydraulics and live PTO question

What does this mean?
Is the difference between just hydraulics and a pto??

Sorry if it seems like a silly question but I have to ask

(quoted from post at 19:16:59 03/13/14) What does this mean?
Is the difference between just hydraulics and a pto??

Sorry if it seems like a silly question but I have to ask

Click to expand...

Both are separate. You can have tractors with live hydraulics and not live pto or vice versa...live means that they are not affected when you push in the clutch.

"live" means the 3pt lift and hyd control for remote cylinders continues to operate normally even when and if you push in the clutch. Non live---everything stops with clutch.

My Super C has live hyd(the lift will work as long as the motor is running)the PTO is not live, push the clutch in and the PTO stops. There are no bad questions, but there can be stupid answers

To add to what the others said, they are driven off of the transmission, when the trans. stops (pushing in the clutch) so does the hyd and pto.
You would still be able to lower the hyd. on most tractors though because it just dumps the oil back to the tank.
The PTO would coast to a stop if you have a over running coupler or the inertia of the spinning implement would continue to push the tractor forward, even though you have depressed the clutch.

Nate

Then you have to ask about independent pto too.

The first tractors had the shaft from the engine, the clutch, and
then everything happening in the rear end - transmission, pto,
and hydraulic pump.

So when you push in the clutch, -everything- stops running
behind the engine.

They realized that wasn't so good, so they came up with other
ways to power the hydraulic pump, closer to the engine not
after the clutch. So now the hydraulics are live - always work
when the engine is running.

Then they figured out to run 2 shafts, and 2 clutches, that
release at different times for the transmission and pto. So
when you push the clutch 1/2 way in the transmission clutch
releases, but the pto clutch keeps spinning. So you have live
pto. If you push the clutch all the way then both clutches
release, and both the transmission and the pto stop. This is a
live pto.

Then they figured well that is still interconnected a bit. So they
came up with independent pto. This has the typical clutch for
the transmission, and a totally seperate clutch, usually hand
operated, for the pto all by itself. So you can shift either or both
the transmission and the pto at any time and not affect the
other at all.

Paul

Generally speaking - an "independent" PTO is a type of "live PTO." Just depends on who is using the word and why. Many tractor makers used "independent" as a marketing tool to show they had a self-contained or powered PTO system. The first patents given on dual-clutch PTOs were called "independent." Later on it often came to mean something else. In a generic sense - if the PTO keeps going when the engine is disconnected from the wheels - that PTO is certainly "indepenent."

I assume this is a follow on question to your post below.
The 8Ns had neither live hyds nor live pto.
Step on the clutch and everything stops - tractor, pto AND hydraulics.
On the 1953 and later Fords the hyd pump was run off the engine's cam shaft so clutching had no effect on hyd operation.
A guy can still do a lot of work with an N but a later tractor is far more convienient for 3 point work.
Ford Ns are cheap. You should be able to buy a good running 8N with good tin, engine and rubber for under $2000.
If you don't get caught up in the restoration craze and spend another $3000 on it you can always get your $ back on it when funds allow an up grade or you decide you want something more modern.
Some guys will tell you you GOTS to have live PTO.
I don't think you do for most work an under 40 HP tractor will do. It is nice but adds a lot of cost to get a newer tractor that has it.
If you buy an N get an 8N, NOT a 9N or 2N!
Follow the link below for about everything you ever wanted to know about old Fords.
John Smiths Great site

Or another way to say it is it is [i:654c4848f0]Independent[/i:654c4848f0] of the clutch

Paul; I think you have explained this very well.

Your answer should be added to a FAQ area on this site !
I don't think it has one does it ? There are sure so many common topics that keep coming up all the time sure would be nice to find them better then in the archives.