Does anyone apply liquid P and K with disk coulters?

We no-till hobby farm a few acres. This is
rolling land and fairly erodible. I have hated
broadcasting nutrients on top of the ground while
knowing that a large percentage of them will end
up in the local river.

Does anyone apply P and K in narrow bands with
liquid nutrients? I was thinking 10" spacing at
4-5 inches deep. Does anyone see an issue with
this? I thought it was worth the cost of a
liquid rig just to keep the nutrients at home
where they belong. Strip till is not really an
option for me for simple economic reasons. The
rig simply costs too much and in the south we
have very little issue with cool soils. Bare
bones no-till works well for us other than
figuring out how to get the nutrients in the root
zone.

Any experiences, thoughts or advice is
appreciated.

Well your P&K does not leach like nitrogen does unless your applying large amounts. So the movement in the soil is minimal, unless you applying on frozen ground.

The easiest way for a smaller producer to apply is to just do it with your corn planter. You can easily go 4 inches of the row and 3-4 inches deep with a rolling coulter setup.

You can used tanks and an electric pump for lower rates per acre but for higher amounts you will need a PTO or hydraulic pump for more flow.


I have seen strip till tool bars to apply the P&K before you plant and then you plant back over the strips.

There are different ways to apply P&K but you will need to give us more information. Acres, rate you want to apply, and equipment you have/use.

Example is if your only doing 20 acres and hire it planted then your options are limited.

P ties up much more readily in soils that have a high organic matter level. Where I come from very little P is applied in the fall because it binds relatively poor to the soil. I wish I had enough acreage to justify strip till. I've done zone building but sometimes it is a little extreme especially in the spring when the object is to minimize soil moisture loss.

Seller, my problem isn't leaching but rather just the simple washing of the nutrients down the hillside and into the stream. It burns me a little bit to spend several thousand on nutrients each fall to watch it wash away. When you can see fertilizer pellets in the ditch it's obvious that something needs to change. The no-till issue is also that all the applied nutrients are right there in the top 1/2 of soil when broadcasting, far above the roots. P moves slowly and is generally tied up (bonded to other molecules and unusable) before it could ever reach the root zone. That makes the broadcasting of pellets an inefficient choice for no-till. I know that's how most do it but that doesn't make it an efficient practice.

Rate would depend on the crop to be planted. Corn, soybeans and wheat are the normals in my neck of the woods. Our dirt is in pretty good shape from being in pasture for years, but I'd sure like to keep it that way. I hate the thoughts of mining all of the nutrients out of the dirt. Even if I put them back on top with pellets the problem still exists down where it counts.

Acres would be 20. I bought an Adams 12 row liquid rig today that was set up to apply liquid N on corn. My plan is to remove the wings of the toolbar and put all the Coulters on the center section to make a 10 ft swath on 10" spacings. The rig has a John Blue piston pump.

I guess I was looking for advice on foreseeable problems and any lessons learned from those who have used such a practice so that I don't have to attend the school of hard knocks and waste a pile of money in the process. As you all know, these nutrients aren't cheap.

We dont have much OM this far south. We stay warm enough to decompose things quickly. Most soils here are in that 3% range. Some better bottom ground might get up to the 5 range on OM.

I'm like you in realizing that strip-till sounds good but isnt feasible on hobby acreage. Not only is the rig expensive but so is the tractor that has enough ponies to pull it. Applying my nutrients in narrow bands at 5" deep is about the only way I could imagine to somewhat mock that strip=till practice of getting the nutrients down where they belong in the root zone.

Zone building for soil structure reasons isn't a huge concern here. No-till really works well this far south. We have plenty of soil warmth in the spring to get emergence. Really I prefer a stale seedbed or total no-till here in case of a rain. Worked soil is actually somewhat of a risk here. Because of our low OM crusting is an issue. No-till really saves us from that.

If you have any pointers on my plans please feel free to share. This is a new practice for me so I'll take whatever thought you might have.

We've been no tilling for 30 years. And we surface apply a lot of nutrients, including manure.

We've done soil testing to look for nutrient stratification from lack of incorperation, but have found very little. Do not underestimate the tillage worms do! They will pull a lot of nutrients down.

Remember, mother nature never had a plow.

P and k don't leach, and if you are doing notill it really shouldn't wash much.

Seems complicated and expensive to put liquid on in a 10 inch pattern, both the change to liquid and that many coulters and lines.....

If you need to go this route, I would put the coulters on the planter and run the fertilizer strip 2x2 so you are feeding the row with a nutrient rich band. Myself I'd go with granular on the planter in a 2x2 as its cheaper source, but whatever.

That would at lest get you something positive in value for the effort.

Paul

Thanks for the advice on economics. Cost is surely a consideration. My problem isn't the leaching of the nutrients but rather washing. The hills are pretty steep but are productive. The 2X2 is a good plan to at least get it off the soil surface but I was able to procure the liquid rig cheaper than I could outfit my offbrand planter with a granular setup. The hoses and coulters already exist so hopefully the swap wont burn the wallet too much. The hoses and coulters just need to be relocated on the toolbar. The liquid is a bit easier to handle from a logistical standpoint for us than the pellets since it can be pumped rather than augered or scooped. I don't really have a way to transport pelleted nutrients. I do appreciate the comments.

Certainly some value to that statement. Nature is resilient. The difference I considered is that nature doesnt remove 70 bushel beans and 200 bushel corn every year. Those kind of yields and nutrient mining doesnt occur naturally. It's gonna be difficult for nature to sustain that in the long term. Nature is more accustomed to growing a few hundred pounds of native weed seeds per year rather than 4000 lbs of beans or 11,000 lbs of corn. Nutrient exchange doesnt have to occur very quickly in nature with the low yields. With our high yielding row crops we need the nutrient exchange to be a real "slam bam thank you mam" kind of deal. Our low OM soils don't offer a great deal of reserve nutrients naturally. If we desire nutrients, we have to put them out.

Nothing wrong with trying things different, and sometimes needs to be different for an unusual deal.

You have some good concerns, and working on a way to do it better. Good for you.

Neighbor with 700 acres went to a liquid setup for everything. 3 years later he was unhappy, the liquid was spendy, corrosive on the planter, and his soil tests were going downhill. That was with 120 dairy cows for manure as well..... He ended up buying a neighbors hog manure, and cutting way back on the liquid needs, more of a starter now.

Paul

We have never used liquid fertilizer. I do know a guy that has been notill/strip tilling for years and uses liquid and has for years. He claims. He puts his starter at not over about 6 gallon per acre in the row and ahead of the planter applies the rest down 9 inches at what ever rate he needs. This is in MI on flat to hilly ground. Where he is is hilly for around here. This is for corn and beans. Also claims to get 70 bushel beans. Plants 10inch rows. I can't say one way or the other.

I think if you compared grain crop removal rates to those of a forage crop, you'll find the forage crop removes much more.

If there were as many bison on the plains as everyone claims, it was being harvested as a forage crop. Those bison also didn't incorperate their "fertilizer".

Another thought... if you want to incorporate the p and K with minimal disturbance, you could attempt to put it on with a no-till drill. I know you were looking for a liquid solution, but finding liquid fertilizer with a meaningful amount of K can be a challenge.

No incorporation? What about hoof action?

I raise a hay, sainfoin and orchard grass, and for the last 3 years I have been using liquid. I flood irrigate then hire a local company so come in a spray it on. This year I am going to try 2 applications of fertilizer. I also fertilize my pasture and I like the liquid better than the dry. My cost of application is $5 per acre. I don't think I can put it on that cheap.
Bud

(quoted from post at 05:55:57 02/23/15) No incorporation? What about hoof action?

Click to expand...

The hoofs are in front, the applicator is in the back, they surely didn't walk backwards very much.