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Head scratching problem???

J

JD Seller

Well-known Member
I got a call this evening from my Grand Daughter. Her car battery was dead and her Dad was busy doing evening chores. She asked me If I could come and see what as wrong. I took a battery along and when I got there the battery as totally dead/open. Zero voltage. Installed the new battery and all was well.

Now the puzzling part. This car is a 2010 Impala. My wife bought this car when it was six months old. It was a GM program car. She drove it for three years. Right about then the battery failed just like the one did tonight. No warning just bang, zero voltage. That battery as the original and was 40 months old. So I just thought bad battery and replaced it with a Delco battery. I did check the charging system and it was fine.

Shortly after that this Grand Daughter started her Senior year of high school. She also was taking college classes in the evenings. She needed a better car than her old beater/starter car. So we sold her the 2010 Impala. We replaced it with a 2013 Impala.

When she had owned the car a little over 13 months the battery failed again. It was under warranty but it happened on a Sunday night so I got an Interstate battery off of a good friend that runs a local garage. The next day we tested the charging system and it checked fine. I was still thinking we might have a alternator/regulator issue. So I bought a NEW Delco/OEM alternator. The one off of the car I kept as a spare as it fits several other vehicles we own.

Eleven months after that the battery failed again. Replaced it with another Interstate but paid some boot and bought the best he had. I also took the car over to Monticello to two mechanics, that are GM certified and have many years of experience, to be totally checked out. They could not find anything wrong with the car. They even took the starter off to see if it had internal issues, nothing.

So tonight the battery failed again. This one lasted just over 14 months. Same problem open circuit, zero voltage. This car only has 60K miles on it now. It looks and runs like new. This is the fourth battery that has failed. The original lasted 40 months but the others are lasting just about a year average. The first two were Delco brand and the next two were Interstate. They all failed the same way too. Open circuit. Like as in a broken plate/bar inside the battery. I am going to take this one apart tomorrow.

Any ideas????? The open circuit is the odd part to me. The location is just on the right front corner of the car. I even checked the struts thinking road vibration was causing an issue.
 
I would say it is the interstate battery with the luck that I have had with them plus the GM brand. Is the battery under the back seat that I have seen? Maybe a little jewish lighting is needed.
 
I'll offer an example that may or may not help. My father-in-law had the same problem. For years. Dealer, mechanic, etc. could not figure it out. They had endlessly replaced batteries, alternators, cables, etc. Finally, his other son-in-law suggested he take it to his mechanic. German Mercedes Mechanic. In other words, A REAL MECHANIC. He listened attentively to all that had transpired and then called to his apprentice to come over. He then crawled into the trunk and instructed his apprentice to close the trunk. He then yelled to open the trunk. He said: "Ja! Just as I thought. The trunk light is not shutting off." He asked my father-in-law if he really needed a trunk light, and, of course, my father-in-law said; "No". He then screwed out the trunk light bulb and handed it to my father-in-law. No more "battery problems" and no charge for the service.
 
I had only one battery fail like that and it was on a mower. My dad insisted on hooking a charger to it but that charger only would do it's thing at 10amp. +plus+. Internally burned off the jumpers. Try this little toy. It plugs into the cigarette socket and monitors the voltage all of the time. Only cost a couple of bucks.Fleabay Have her look at it now and then and it should stay around 14.2 volts or a bit more maybe. Could have regulator problems. First thing in the morning it should read in the 12.2 volt range. This may be a long term science project. They look pretty at night too.
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I am curious as to what you will find when you take the battery apart. One thing that comes to mind is how the battery is held into place on the vehicle. I have a '13 Impala,(on its 3rd battery) the battery is held in place with a wedge type clamp at the base of the battery. Could the battery clamp be exerting stress on the battery plates inside the cast that is causing it to fail prematurely? I would also check and see what the amp draw is on the vehicle when the vehicle is not running. Also, is there a cell phone charger that is always plugged in? If so that will also draw down the battery.

Jared
 
Jared I am thinking the battery location is part of the issue. My wife's 2013 Impala has the battery in about the same location and it did not last much more than 30 months on the original.
 
ALL four batteries FAILED OPEN. Meaning there is no continuity between the posts. They never "slow" crank they are DEAD. The dash lights will not even light. This evening the Grand Daughter was just dropping of some paperwork and only shut the car off for maybe 10 minutes. So it is not a slow draw issue.

we have checked the draw with the key off and it is within the spec. GM says the system pulls while at "rest".
 
I would say that there is more going on then is readily apparent. Something is stressing the battery beyond its design limits. I might suggest that going to a higher capacity battery might help the situation.
 
JD, I had a 99 Buick do a similar thing to two batteries. Third batter I bought at local auto parts store where I know the parts person and I told him the story. He said that on the GM side mount terminal that people torque the bolt too tight and it eventually causes the internal connection to fail and go open circuit. He convinced me to buy a battery with both side and top post terminals. He said solution was to buy adapters from side to post terminal. About two yeas later I shut the car off while my wife went in to the corner store for about 5 minute and when she came out and I went to start the car I heard like a welder ark and then no more power. I always carry jumper cables in the back, so took jumper cables and jumper end from top post to side post and had power again. In this case it was the negative side terminal that let go and I just used the jumper cables to jumper from top posts to frame and I was good to go. So auto parts guy was correct on side terminal battery failures. All of a sudden the connection goes open circuit or a high resistance with not enough current to run the starter.

Could be your problem but with out top posts there is no way to tell is it is an open terminal or a dead battery.

JimB
 
Jim I am thinking about getting one of those gel filled batteries for it. You can not put a larger size case in where the battery goes. I have the highest CCA one I could find. it still is only a 750 CCA.
 
JD Seller,

I will ask my dad to think about it, and post on here his thoughts. As you guys know, he has been a Chevrolet mechanic for most of his life. For the last 20 years though, he has been the lead guy in the local shop, and specializes in Automotive Electronics / Drive-ability.

He WILL have an answer. Have you checked out a warranty repair / recall on the car?
 
Asked my dad about it, here is what he said.

1st thing that needs to be done, is Parasitic Draw needs to be measured over a small period of time. 10-30 Milliamps is normal, 30 is a little much though.

On these cars, On-Star is a common problem. Every 10 (give or take a little) minutes, On-Star draws 300 Milliamps in order to communicate with "Home Base". This gives On-Star operators the opportunity to communicate with your car, if you lock yourself out, or it is stolen, etc. Sometimes On-Star's draw wigs out, and doesn't stop pulling the 300 Milliamps.

It could be intermittent, or it could be happening all the time, but the NEW batterys are supporting the draw, for about a year until they start to get a little weaker. The constant drain can be fairly hard on a battery too, wearing the life right out of them.

That would be the first thing I would check.
 
We had a 97 Grand Cherokee that would occasionally discharge the battery. Fine one day then dead the next. I would charge it and it was OK. Sometimes going for months with no problem, sometimes every two or three days. I traced it to the interior lighting circuit but no farther than that. Probably would have taken the computer to go beyond that. I just pulled the fuse.
 
Bryce the Parasitic Draw is around 25 milliamps. The On star is not active unless they talk to cars even if you do not scribe to their service.


I would really like to totally disable the OnStar system on both the 2010 and 2013 Impala. I do not like "big brother" talking to my car unless I want it done, which I do not.

Bruce The trouble is these batteries seem to suddenly totally fail. Not a slow crank or low power fail. I mean an open circuit fail. Total lose of continuity between positive and negative terminals.
 
I had an 01 Silverado, did exactly the same as your Impala. Would only get about a year out of a battery. Every battery failed as your's did, no warning, just as if something burned through internally. At first I blamed it on Walmart batteries, but I tried many different brands, no difference,

I never found a cause or solution. My theory was it was heat related. All failed in the summer. The factory had installed a black fiber type jacket around the battery, assumed that was for heat reduction. I always kept it on all the batteries. I notice the newer Chevy trucks have moved the battery back by the firewall. I don't see that being any cooler, but it is away from the radiator.

I sold that truck to a coworker, so it would be nice to know what was causing it. Be interested in your autopsy results!
 
Found this out recently check the box you get a battery charger in but a battery will not take a charge unless the battery is a certain temperature. So basically if the car is outside on a cold night the charging system will not charge and what happens on a short trip the battery will discharge but doesn't recharge and with lights and extra stuff running it can flatten a battery. I didn't believe it but the guy at local farm store took me over to a box for battery charger and is what's written on it
 
Is your Impala loaded with electrical equipment? If it has key less entry, power trunk opener, remote start it is powered all the time. The On- Star is powered all the time even if you don't scribe to it. My 06 Impala with on-star ( not active) still sends me reports to my home computer on mileage and knows when oil is changed. My 06 is loaded and first battery lasted 7 years . My car sets inside when not in use and its not as cold as setting outside in winter and setting out in the cold will shorten the life of a battery.
 
Theres still power to the module even if its not active. (And no, OnStar doesn't monitor your car when you don't use their service, too many tin foil hat types out there, and on here.) We through this with our Buick within the last 3 or 4 weeks. Dealer disabled the module, hadn't died yet since.
 
I have an 2006 Impala and have not subscribed to On-Star in the last 5 years and they send to my home computer the mileage and knows when I changed oil. I have at night bumped the On-Star button by mistake trying to change mirror and they answer and talked to me.
 
I have an 07 Impala with inactive On Star and I get nothing from them. I do however get, about every two months, a reminder to come by and have that idiotic little insert put in my ignition keys. Never a battery problem with around 117,000 miles. So how does the On Star know when the oil is changed? TDF
 
On- Star must be tied into on board computer of car because they can tell what percentage of use you have left before oil needs changing and know when it has been reset. They even tell me how many miles I have put on car to date.
 
JDSeller, I once ruined a delco battery by tightning up the side post bolt.And i am so careful of those bolts anyway. Well it pulled the post apart inside.This was on a 98 pontiac.Was a Good battery too. Keep us informed of your surgery on the battery.
 
JD I cannot help with the issue but I had a ford car that would eat fuel pumps (they were in the tank). We had it tested and tested no one could figure it out. Warrantee replaced them as a rule and often!!! I got real good at pulling the rear seat and swapping it out. Carried a spare one in the trunk just in case!!!! You might get her one of those booster packs to carry just incase??
 
I have an '02 Silverado pickup whose battery went dead years ago just like your grand daughter's. Turns out one of the side posts (negative, IIRC) was corroded and broken internally(creating the open circuit).
 
Then they still have you as an active customer. If you dont want to get all of that, just call them and tell them. Its obviously a mix up on their end, OR you could be paying for it and havent caught it. (Hey, its happened before.) I have had now 5 vehicles with OnStar, and never renewed when the free trial was up, and as soon as that was up, I stopped getting the emails. For giggles, Id reset the OLM, and see what happens.
 
I'l second the 'it's a GM issue' comment.

The wife had a 2000 GMC yukon. we finally pretty much GAVE it to my step brother last year for the price of hauling it away.

Ran fine, but did leak a little. but it would eat batteries too. not a slow eat.. but just consume in one evening.

run fine all day, park it, then the next morning, deader than a doornail. swap batteries and then it would run fine 6m and then out of nowhere do it again.

it did it on and off from the time it was about 10ys old till we stopped using it and parked it in the barn, then finally got rid of it.

Charge system always checked out as charging good current and voltage. disconnecting the alt did not effect it during setting. It must be some peice of electronics that the ECM turns on at some point and drains the battery. I used to call it the 'strand' circuit, as that's what it would do.. strand you.
 
JD, Has anyone checked this car for a draw. Very well could be something drawing the battery down. Sometimes it takes a while to find the culprit. You just have to catch it when the mill amps are spiking. Could have a module waking up causing the draw. We had one here and finally found out it was a seat motor causing the problem. What we do is open all the doors and trunk and hood and manually lock them.Car thinks everything is shut. Hook the meter up and see what the mill amps are after about an hour then just keep watching it after that and see if you can catch it when its spiking. And if you catch it start pulling fuses till it drops soon as it does check and see whats on that circuit.
 
I would suspect a relay that is sticking in the closed position, but problems like that are hard to troubleshoot, can be very time consuming. Our son is having a similar problem with a fairly new Ford, none are exempt!
 
I had a similar problem with my Dodge pickup. It would drive nice and dandy then bang would be dead the next day without warning. Replace battery thing would run 13-14 be dead again. Had the truck in and out to figure it out but nothing. Also during this time the key was acting up. The key would come out wherever you pulled it out. Also the radio would be on in the middle of the night by it's self. Had the switch replaced and it solved all the issues. The battery is now 24 months and is at full charge, the radio hasn't come on like it did so I chalk it up to that bad switch. Not that it could be your problem but who knows some times just what it could be.
 
JD,hope you can get this solved. I bought a 2014 GM Impala back in Jan.015 w/10k miles,havent had any issues with the bat. yet{knock on wood}. "Let me know what you find" as others have said.

I also have a 08 Silverado and it still has original bat. Not many miles{37k} but that realy doesnt mean anything when it comes to electronics. No onstar subscription on either one. Decided I dont need them but the XM radio would be nice on a trip.
 
We had a similar problem with our 07 Suburban. Battery would go completely dead, problem started within a month of purchase. Dealer had it in several times, never really figured it out. But one factor seemed to be the XM radio. Not turning the radio off before turning the key off greatly increased the chances of a problem, especially when parking it in the garage. I think it was constantly searching for a signal even though the key was off. We started making sure that the radio was turned off stopped a lot of the problems.
 
Had a co worker that had a similar problem in a Mercury, went through 3 alternators and 2 batteries before he found his problem. A connector that brings two main wire harnesses together was loose. Also have seen bad grounds cause some head scratching issues.
 
When I install a battery I check for a drain. No mention that you checked for a drain.

I would think an open might be caused by vibration or jarring or just bad luck.

Check out Auto Zones best battery. They have a good warranty, install free.

Might be a good time to get a battery conductivity tester to check out the condition of battery before it leaves you stranded.
 
If the batt. is dead after a 10 min. stop and no smoke is seen coming from under the hood.the batt.just bit the bullet.It happens!Or there is a terminal problem.Happening repeatedly in a relatively short period of time it could be a continuous draw that slowly weakens the batt. even with an up to snuff charging system.If the car sits unused for 2 or 3 days does the batt. start the car easily?
We'd all like to know what the problem is when it's found.I've no doubt you'll figure it out.
 
I run several vehicles with Interstate Optima batteries in them. HIGHLY recommend them. Very high output and tough.
 
Let's try this again. Was almost ready to post this when power failed for a split second. Lost it all.

Had a real head scratcher with a Ford a few years ago. 'Bout drove me bonkers. Wife would drive to work, park car, and come out from work to find a flat battery. Cut to the chase, only happened when she would get out, go around to passenger's side, open the door, get her bags off front seat, lock door, and close door. What was happening was that voltage regulator in alternator was sensing voltage drop through dome light, turning on field in alternator, and discharging battery. Had had alternator rebuilt by friend who ran a backyard alternator shop. His new regulator(s) were defective. Went through a couple more before I went to junk pail, found old one, and put it back in. Problem solved. What was so difficult to figure out was the intermittent nature of the failure, and wife did not make connection with opening passenger door, and battery failure discovered after work. I discovered it while testing with ammeter connected between battery and positive cable, just happened to open passenger door, and BOING!
 
David: The battery has an Open circuit. Nothing to charge. I did not get time today to tear the old battery apart I am going to.
 
JD,
For what its worth, I had a similar issue on a Buick, it took forever to find. Not enough draw to pop any fuses.
If I let it sit too long, it would kill the battery.

I removed half the fuses let it sit for a week (fuses 1-16). Vehicle ran/started fine. Battery didnt drain.

So I knew it was in fuses 17-30 something. Kept dividing by half, removing them for a week.
Finally isolated it to the cigarette lighter, rear window defroster circuit.

Being that it wasnt a new car, I just left the fuse out.

Please let us know what you find.

Rick
 
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