i am doing a full out of frame engine rebuild on a d-17 for a customer. another mechanic told me that the rod bolts need to be replaced . is this true? if so where should i get them from ? NAPA or an AGCO dealer? he said that after about 50 hours the rods come through the block...
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dr sportster
Well-known Member
What does the service manual say on this? How would you know if you are replacing the bolts with better bolts? If you could find specific rod bolts or some ARP rod bolts that fit maybe ,but you have to be sure your not going backwards here. A rod bolt is made for a hard usage and is not some hardware store item. You need further research.
I would say to service the governor NO question! I personally have tangled with two of them going kafoey. One on a silage blower and the other on a model B parade tractor. Both were "C" engines right? Heard it is a weak point on those tractors. Rod bolts You are crazy not to change them. Never had a rebuild blow up but I always changed the bolts. How many are we talking about EIGHT rod bolts and what SIX mains or four whatever it takes? Check the oil pump too. My two cents.
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
Went through this on Dad's Farmall A rebuild. In that case the manual doesn't mention replacement but these had corrosion pits on them so no-go. An actual "made for" set would have been over $400 bucks but I was able to find some ARP bolts that were very close and got a whole set for around $40 bucks.
Tractor engines run low RPM so they don't get the same stress as other bolts but at present time now all those bolts are over 60+ years old and have unknown previous rebuilds on them.
Tractor engines run low RPM so they don't get the same stress as other bolts but at present time now all those bolts are over 60+ years old and have unknown previous rebuilds on them.
I've rebuilt quite a few engines, from CAT's to Fords, to Detroit's, to Murphys. to Yanmars. I usually rely on the service manual or what I see to determine what bolts need to be replaced. In most cases I reuse the same ones I took out. I've never had an issue with any of the engines I've built.
For instance Cummins bolts are tightened by the torque turn method, which is basically torque to yield. In other words, the bolts are tightened to a specified torque, and then stretched a predetermined amount. In that case, Cummins supplies a gage with the gasket kit that lets you know whether the bolts are too long to reuse, or if they are still OK.
On the other hand, as one post mentioned, if the bolts show visible signs of damage, etc it would be a good idea to replaced them regardless of anything else.
Good luck.
For instance Cummins bolts are tightened by the torque turn method, which is basically torque to yield. In other words, the bolts are tightened to a specified torque, and then stretched a predetermined amount. In that case, Cummins supplies a gage with the gasket kit that lets you know whether the bolts are too long to reuse, or if they are still OK.
On the other hand, as one post mentioned, if the bolts show visible signs of damage, etc it would be a good idea to replaced them regardless of anything else.
Good luck.
Some machine shops will do a torque test on rod bolts to insure they are up to spec. When I rebuilt my ford as I was torqueing the rod bolts one could not be torqued. The bolt was getting ready to give up. I replaced all the rod bolts, spendy but peace of mind was worth it.
I have only ever done one D17 series IV. Didn't replace the rod bolts and it has hung together on a belly mower tractor. Of
course replacing them is never a bad idea. My question would be, Does the mechanic you asked primarily work on modern stuff esp
autos? Many of the modern engines use torque to yield bolts and these are once and done parts.
As to the governor. Take it apart and make sure the holes where the weights are pinned onto the shaft are in good shape or
better yet just replace the weights. I have had these come unglued on me twice through the years. Once in a WC and once in a
WD45.
jt
course replacing them is never a bad idea. My question would be, Does the mechanic you asked primarily work on modern stuff esp
autos? Many of the modern engines use torque to yield bolts and these are once and done parts.
As to the governor. Take it apart and make sure the holes where the weights are pinned onto the shaft are in good shape or
better yet just replace the weights. I have had these come unglued on me twice through the years. Once in a WC and once in a
WD45.
jt
Poppa Noel
Member
" i am doing a full out of frame engine rebuild "
If it were me yes I would replace them how many times have they been torqued in the last 50 + years? torque = stretching the bolt they will give out sooner or later. I would also be grinding the cap and rod and resizing the dia on a " full rebuild "
If it were me yes I would replace them how many times have they been torqued in the last 50 + years? torque = stretching the bolt they will give out sooner or later. I would also be grinding the cap and rod and resizing the dia on a " full rebuild "
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
I agree with resizing the rods. The bolts need to be changed before the rods are resized, especially if the bolts are a press fit in the rod.
Back in the race engine building days, we had the rods for a 400 SB Chevy resized, then as an afterthought put some high strength bolts in. When we rechecked them with a dial bore gauge, they were out of tolerance... So back they went for another resize.
Back in the race engine building days, we had the rods for a 400 SB Chevy resized, then as an afterthought put some high strength bolts in. When we rechecked them with a dial bore gauge, they were out of tolerance... So back they went for another resize.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
The process makes the big end hole smaller. then a hone is used in a rigid fixture to resize them to spec. I only do this if even one is out of spec, or the engine had
a loose lower end in its final days. Jim
a loose lower end in its final days. Jim
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The rpms maybe low. However the pistons and rods are heavy. The long stroke makes for high piston speed even through the rpms are low .
My tractor runs under a load at 1500 - 2000 rpm most of the time . My truck may rev over 1500 to shift but runs under 1500 rpm most of the time , just perspective . Fortunately most tractor motors have a stout rotating mass . Rod bolts would be one of the more critical parts to check in my opinion .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Fasteners fatigue with age, corrosion and stress from being under tension.
No matter the age of the fastener. It only takes one "Bubba " who doesn't use a torque wrench or thinks that if "some is good , more is better" when it comes to torque.
A stretched fastener is ruined.
Condition of the threads in the block are vital . They should be chased with a bottom tap, cleaned and the top thread reamed out.
Prices have come way down in the last 25 years . Any one that wants to rebuild a motor without guessing should get a dial bore gauge at about $60 .
Dial Indicator Bore Gauge
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