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Way OT--WW2 bomber question

F

Frank (N.Mi.)

Member
The b24 post got me wondering something. Somewhere recently in saw archive footage of the B29 being loaded for it's run to Nagasaki. It was backing over pit which contained the bomb. I didn't see if it was being pushed by a tractor (or whatever they are called). Could the B29 reverse the engines or maybe propellers to go in reverse? Didn't get a good answer when I googled...
 
Tug made by MM. May/may not have a pic of an IH tug, don't see one offhand.
a224182.jpg
 
Don't know about the B-29, but the C-119 "Flying Boxcar" could reverse the props and back up. It startled me the first time I saw one do it.

It wasn't an everyday sight, but they could do it if they had to in a particular situation.
 
Some mornings I eat breakfast with an old air force captain.
He says a pilot working the engines and brakes can back a four prop into a hangar.
 
My dad told me about that, hold one brake and pivot on that wheel, alternate and work backward. joe
 
Try being in a CH-53 Sea Stallion Helicopter, and see the look on people's faces when you "Back Taxi"....
It's the same look they give when you do a barrel roll in one over the field....
 
The B24 had a variable pitch propeller but I don't think it had the ability to reverse the pitch the propeller blades - which is what it would have to do back its self up. In WW2 I don't think many planes had the option except for amphibious planes that needed that ability after they had landed on water.
 
Motor tugs don't need to be that big cause air fields a level and the only thing the tug needs to do is overcome the Mass of the aircraft.
 
The B29s for operation 'Silverplate' were not the normal ones. Tibbets ordered them specially built without guns (except the 20mm tail gun) to save approximately another 7k lbs. They had to be specially designed because simply removing the existing guns proved unsuccessful as the "patch" would blow off under pressure from the cabin. At that time he also ordered the General Electric electric controlled props installed which were reversible. They were for added stopping ability for landing at shorter strips (aka Iow Jima) and not for back taxi. Initially for loading the 'test' dummy bombs they pulled the tail down so the nose would be way up over the ground but later had pits that,presumably, tugs would back the aircraft over where automotive style hydraulic lifts would insert the bomb.
 
Howard Hughes was flying a plane, I think a twin engine, when he accidentally reversed the props (or maybe it was a mechanical malfunction) and nearly crashed. Anyone know more details of that?
 
That was to be a twin engined fighter similar to the P-38 Lightening and it had two counter-rotating props on each engine. I forget most of the details; if they reversed or only one did and they fought against each other. That crash was the beginning of his addiction to heroin (for pain) IIRC.
 

Any aircraft with a variable prop that will go into Beta mode will backup. Handy to save brakes and tires on short runways too.
 
The phrase everyone is looking for is "Power Back". "Back Taxi" is when you taxi down a runway in the direction that is opposite for takeoff and landing.

Modern turboprops will power back, so will jet aircraft with the thrust reverser buckets deployed. It's frowned upon for two reasons: One, you can't see where you're going and two, (especially with the jet) you blow up all kinds of FOD and debris and it ends up getting ingested into the engine. Oh, and three if you are backing up with a tricycle gear aircraft and tap the brakes even a little too hard you are going to end up sitting on your tail! (Which means you will then be sitting on your own tail while the investigation is being done!)

As for the B-29, I don't know of any recip engines that feature reverse pitch but I don't know everything and am not familiar enough with the later model radials and transports. Goose says he's seen a C-119 do it and he has no reason to lie. JF in MI says those particular planes had a special prop controller which is logical for their use and no doubt there's historical data to back it up.
 
Wasn't that actually MM's version of a general purpose military vehicle made in the late 30's before the jeep came out?
 
Modern C-130 cargo planes must have reversible propellers. When C-130 National Guard crews practice "touch and go" landings they will sometimes come to a stop, turn the plane around within it's own wingspan, and takeoff again in the opposite direction. It's rather impressive how little runway they need to do that.
 
(quoted from post at 08:16:52 04/18/16) The b24 post got me wondering something. Somewhere recently in saw archive footage of the B29 being loaded for it's run to Nagasaki. It was backing over pit which contained the bomb. I didn't see if it was being pushed by a tractor (or whatever they are called). Could the B29 reverse the engines or maybe propellers to go in reverse? Didn't get a good answer when I googled...
Click to expand...

Did you see this site?

http://lifestoriesbyralph.blogspot.com/2014_08_01_archive.html
 
If you are interested in the B-29 and the nuclear bombing of Japan read WARS END, by Charles Sweeney. It is the fascinating story of these two bomb runs and the training leading up to them. Any library can get it if they don't have it. I couldn't put it down.
 
Howie's crash was of his XF-11 experimental reconnaisance plane. It was a twin-boom aircraft similar to the P-38, and featured coaxial contra-rotating propellers on each engine. One of the props malfunctioned during the test flight; normal procedure would be to shut down the engine on that side and attempt to feather its props. Instead, Howard continued to fly with both engines under power, and ended up augering into a Beverly Hills home.

The XF-11, like Hughes' early H-1, was a beautiful aircraft and it's a shame it had such a short history. Of course, this was in 1946; the day of the jet had arrived and reciprocating recon aircraft would soon be obsolete.
Hughes XF 11
 
Some great info from the answers here! Thanks to all you guys who replied. One of the things I really like about this site. Some interesting photos from Rich, no I had not seen that site. I am a interested in all things related to ww2 and aviation. Probably will check Tom's book suggestion...To anyone else who is interested in aircraft, if you are ever around Dayton Ohio the WPAB Museum Of Flight is a must. Impressive doesn't even begin to describe the place...
 
He lost hydraulic pressure in one prop and it went to full reverse pitch. After that accident, the props were designed to go to feather when hyd. Pressure was lost.
 
(quoted from post at 08:16:52 04/18/16) The b24 post got me wondering something. Somewhere recently in saw archive footage of the B29 being loaded for it's run to Nagasaki. It was backing over pit which contained the bomb. I didn't see if it was being pushed by a tractor (or whatever they are called). Could the B29 reverse the engines or maybe propellers to go in reverse? Didn't get a good answer when I googled...
Click to expand...

According to the wiki page on the B-29 named Bockscar, which dropped Fat Man on Nagasaki, it did have reversible propellers.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bockscar
Read "Landing and debriefing" for the details. Interesting story.
 
Not sure about reversing props on the B-29 but they used tugs mostly for moving the aircraft. As far as C-130's, I flew them in Nam and we backed them into/out parking spots with the reverse mode. We also used the reverse mode on all landings, especially short field and dirt runways to decrease landing distances and help out the brakes. The brakes on a C-130 had anti-skid and were very effective. When we backed out of parking spots we would put the loadmaster on a long cord and headset and he would provide help in directing our backing and also act as a safety observer. The C-130 also had a down speed button for each engine which decreased the prop rpm to reduce thrust when the aircraft was taxiing with a light load or empty. Props on the C-130 normally ran at 100% rpm and propeller pitch automatically adjusted to the amount of throttle applied. Usually we taxied with the inboard engines in downspeed mode as the outboards had better power leverage and we could turn/taxi without using the steering tiller or differential braking. C-130s were one of my favorite planes after the T-38 and MD-11. Had breakfast with Gen Tibbets once and had a wonderful chance to ask him a lot of questions on his experiences. Believe his grandson is an Air Force Maj General who was the B-2 Wing Commander at Whiteman AFB, Mo.
'
 
(quoted from post at 21:26:36 04/18/16) Not sure about reversing props on the B-29 but they used tugs mostly for moving the aircraft. As far as C-130's, I flew them in Nam and we backed them into/out parking spots with the reverse mode. We also used the reverse mode on all landings, especially short field and dirt runways to decrease landing distances and help out the brakes. The brakes on a C-130 had anti-skid and were very effective. When we backed out of parking spots we would put the loadmaster on a long cord and headset and he would provide help in directing our backing and also act as a safety observer. The C-130 also had a down speed button for each engine which decreased the prop rpm to reduce thrust when the aircraft was taxiing with a light load or empty. Props on the C-130 normally ran at 100% rpm and propeller pitch automatically adjusted to the amount of throttle applied. Usually we taxied with the inboard engines in downspeed mode as the outboards had better power leverage and we could turn/taxi without using the steering tiller or differential braking. C-130s were one of my favorite planes after the T-38 and MD-11. Had breakfast with Gen Tibbets once and had a wonderful chance to ask him a lot of questions on his experiences. Believe his grandson is an Air Force Maj General who was the B-2 Wing Commander at Whiteman AFB, Mo.
'
Click to expand...

Of all the different types of acft. I worked on and it's a bunch,the HERK is #1 with me!I have many flt. hours as a flying crew chief and many more bending wrenches on mine or someone elses. bird.Seems to me that Tibbets G/S is 3rd generation USAF general.
 

My much older brother was on Tinian when the bomb was flown off. He didn't know anything about it until after the fact.

KEH
 
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