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Am I the stupid one??

E

Eldon (WA)

Well-known Member
I got a call to brushhog an 8 acre field last week. I got to it this morning, talked to the owner and he told me he had a guy mow it earlier this year and was real disappointed in the way it looked when he was finished. He told me who did it, a competitor of mine who bought an 8' Bush Hog like mine this year in order to compete with me. He also bought a new Japanese Deere w/cab to run it. My theory is he was scared he might hit a rock so mowed too high. Anyway, I told the guy we would see what my mowing job looked like and go from there. As I was finishing the job he stops me and says his wife loves how it looks and wonders if I have time to do an additional 10 acres out back. I do, and when done I settle up and find out I was almost 40% less than the other guy who did a crappy job. So obviously I gain a customer, but the other guy made the big bucks....made me wonder just who is smarter here?? Thoughts?
 
You are smarter because he made the big bucks only once you'll have him for a customer over and over.Plus I'm sure he'll be telling his friends,family etc about what happened.
And one thing for sure being that much higher you won't have to worry about him taking any of your existing customers.I doubt he'll be around next year especially if he's making payments
on his rig, that's the good thing about your tractors No Payments(LOL)
 
In situations like that, I always remember Will Roger's comment back in the 1930's: "There ain't no loyalty that 2 cents off won't buy!" That's basically why we buy so much stuff from China.
 
I was told years ago that, 'You can sheer a sheep a lot of times....but you can only skin him once'.

The other guy did the skinning, and got his one shot. You'll be able to sheer for years to come.

In the end it appears your the smarter one, by far.
 
Not being critical,Eldon, but we don't know what he had to mow the first time.What you call brushhoging we call clipping.Example,I have a 10A piece to mow right now that would make a XT or 200 beg for more power with a 8 ft.mower trying to do a decent job in one pass.(1 to 1 1/2 mph.)You could be 100% right on what you are saying on the matter because of what the conditions were.
 
(quoted from post at 05:04:51 06/18/16) Not being critical,Eldon, but we don't know what he had to mow the first time.What you call brushhoging we call clipping.Example,I have a 10A piece to mow right now that would make a XT or 200 beg for more power with a 8 ft.mower trying to do a decent job in one pass.(1 to 1 1/2 mph.)You could be 100% right on what you are saying on the matter because of what the conditions were.
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LOL that's exactly why you don't want an XT or 200! Sorry, couldn't resist! :lol: :lol:

I'd have to see that. I have bush hogged heavy brush with a 43 HP tractor and a 6 foot hog in one pass in 1st gear with plenty of power. Come to think of it maybe your XT or 200 is in need of some work?

Rick
 
funny how people do things differently. I had a fellow who mowed my pastures for the hay. ist year an employee cut it and it got 11 1/2 very big bales from it. Last year the fellow who owned the equipment mowed it but probably left 8/9 inches of grass. I asked the employee who came to rake and bale it why he didn't mow it closer. it had been mowed the year before so he knew there wasn't anything to hurt his equipment. employee said he wasn't very good on mowing but was good on raking and baling. so they got 8 bales from it. Don't know if the hi cut would have made the difference, probably not but I wasn't to happy with the cut. just different people doing things there way. The most important thing is your customer was happy and so are you. That says enough.
 
Eldon I just got done cutting a field of hay that has been cut every year for the past 10 years, the stuff was so tall and rank I had to cut it 4"-6"off the ground. The darn deer had been laying in it had a lot of it mashed down. My sickle is kept sharp and the guards on my conditioner are like new. There maybe more reasons here than what you have mentioned-conditions change every year.
 
Did he pay you what you were looking for? Then you made out ok. You get what you asked for, you charge less than the other guy, you got the work, he is unemployed. Any more questions?

Good luck.

Mark
 
(quoted from post at 05:04:51 06/18/16) Not being critical,Eldon, but we don't know what he had to mow the first time.What you call brushhoging we call clipping.Example,I have a 10A piece to mow right now that would make a XT or 200 beg for more power with a 8 ft.mower trying to do a decent job in one pass.(1 to 1 1/2 mph.)You could be 100% right on what you are saying on the matter because of what the conditions were.
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He mowed this field less than a month ago, actually showed me the check duplicate was the second to the last check he wrote. I could still see his tire tracks and areas still had the shredded grass laying there and it wasn't nearly as thick as places I cut. I had a lot of time to think about why his rig did a poor job and this is what I came up with:
1. His tractor is a compact and he can't set the wheels out far enough for an 8' mower. The manual calls for 60" minimum between the rear tires. This means he has to run over the edge of the grass in order to get even 7' cut. This also splays out the grass so the skids tend to hold it down and it doesn't get cut clean....and you have rooster tails pop back up.
2. He uses the imatch quick hitch, this along with the short wheelbase is causing the mower to pivot up and down more dramatically than my tractor with a 20" longer wheelbase and no quick hitch.
3. The narrow tractor will rock back and forth in rough ground throwing the mower side to side...he probably had to slow down to keep from bouncing against the sides of the cab!
4. He has 13.6 x 28" rear tires, I have 15.5 x 38"....big difference in how they carry the weight and effect the ride.

Basically, he has the right mower, but the wrong tractor. I don't think an 8' Bush Hog was made to be pulled behind a compact utility tractor no matter how much you weight it down....
 
(quoted from post at 07:36:29 06/18/16) Did he pay you what you were looking for? Then you made out ok. You get what you asked for, you charge less than the other guy, you got the work, he is unemployed. Any more questions?

Good luck.

Mark
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Actually I never looked at the check until this morning....he included a $50 tip! Having a happy customer, doing a good job at a good rate and still making $930 in a day makes it all worth it!
 
(quoted from post at 23:51:48 06/17/16) You are smarter because he made the big bucks only once you'll have him for a customer over and over.Plus I'm sure he'll be telling his friends,family etc about what happened.
And one thing for sure being that much higher you won't have to worry about him taking any of your existing customers.I doubt he'll be around next year especially if he's making payments
on his rig, that's the good thing about your tractors No Payments(LOL)
Click to expand...

I can see that!
My rig

His
 
Mowing 18 acres around here would get you about 200 bucks if lucky. Most guys just buy an old tractor and bush hog and mow it themselves rather than pay to get it mowed.If you charge to mow you need commercial insurance in most places. If something happens or some yuppie wants to sue over a bad mowing job home owners or farm insurance won't cover you.
 
Couple of years ago here they told the folks with CRP land that they had a certain amount of time to mow it. Mowing paid pretty good that year. I was getting 50 an hour plus gas with a 6 foot cutter behind a Farmall M. Did 2 that were right at 100 acres. Most years there isn't much work like that for anyone.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 00:06:29 06/18/16) I was told years ago that, 'You can sheer a sheep a lot of times....but you can only skin him once'.

The other guy did the skinning, and got his one shot. You'll be able to sheer for years to come.

In the end it appears your the smarter one, by far.
Click to expand...

Never heard that one before.True and I like it!
 
Rick & Tx,The 10A I'am talking about,whenever it gets 2 to 3 foot tall gets so dense a man or dog can't get thru it much at all.Our area has a lot of old pastures-hay ground that only gets mowed once-twice a yr and gets 4 to 10 foot tall in between mowings.2-3MPH is about as fast as you can mow these fields at 4-6 inches and 10 to 20 Horsepower per ft.of mower.I haven't had a XT or 200 for over 40 yrs,that was just an example,could have said 4020,806,ect.The only reason for the comment was,we didn't know what the first cutting field was like.
 
(quoted from post at 10:16:45 06/18/16) Rick & Tx,The 10A I'am talking about,whenever it gets 2 to 3 foot tall gets so dense a man or dog can't get thru it much at all.Our area has a lot of old pastures-hay ground that only gets mowed once-twice a yr and gets 4 to 10 foot tall in between mowings.2-3MPH is about as fast as you can mow these fields at 4-6 inches and 10 to 20 Horsepower per ft.of mower.I haven't had a XT or 200 for over 40 yrs,that was just an example,could have said 4020,806,ect.The only reason for the comment was,we didn't know what the first cutting field was like.
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OK but the brush I've been cutting the last couple of year taking about a 5 foot cut is spaced anywhere from 4-8" apart from 1/2 to 1 1/2". Pretty darned heavy.

4-10 FT? Where in the heck are you at that grass grows like that so think it's hard to walk through? Africa? At 10 HP per foot a XT should handle an 8 foot cutter no problem!

Rick
 
your smarter you now have a customer for as long as you treat him well, the other guy did it once, i have had the same deal several times somebody comes in and wants to make money so he buys a new 40 hp super tractor and brush hog and hits the field, the problem is there is a whole lot more to brush hogging that just hooking the hog to the tractor, proper set up is essential, plus knowing what your doing is part of it too, city folks just dont get it lol
 
(quoted from post at 11:47:58 06/18/16) your smarter you now have a customer for as long as you treat him well, the other guy did it once, i have had the same deal several times somebody comes in and wants to make money so he buys a new 40 hp super tractor and brush hog and hits the field, the problem is there is a whole lot more to brush hogging that just hooking the hog to the tractor, proper set up is essential, plus knowing what your doing is part of it too, city folks just dont get it lol
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He had cut this last year with his old JD and 5' mower...so I guess he got 2 mowings worth out of him. Last week I did a job for a gal and was talking to her husband after I finished. He said he saw me mowing the neighbor's and told his wife to email "Tim" and get the name of that guy....cause I can tell he knows what he is doing!
 
(quoted from post at 10:26:22 06/18/16)
(quoted from post at 10:16:45 06/18/16) Rick & Tx,The 10A I'am talking about,whenever it gets 2 to 3 foot tall gets so dense a man or dog can't get thru it much at all.Our area has a lot of old pastures-hay ground that only gets mowed once-twice a yr and gets 4 to 10 foot tall in between mowings.2-3MPH is about as fast as you can mow these fields at 4-6 inches and 10 to 20 Horsepower per ft.of mower.I haven't had a XT or 200 for over 40 yrs,that was just an example,could have said 4020,806,ect.The only reason for the comment was,we didn't know what the first cutting field was like.
Click to expand...

OK but the brush I've been cutting the last couple of year taking about a 5 foot cut is spaced anywhere from 4-8" apart from 1/2 to 1 1/2". Pretty darned heavy.

4-10 FT? Where in the heck are you at that grass grows like that so think it's hard to walk through? Africa? At 10 HP per foot a XT should handle an 8 foot cutter no problem!

Rick
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Last Monday I did a 14 acre field that was planted to oats late last year and didn't make a crop because of the drought. I never checked the field because I thought "how tall can weeds get this early in the year?" Well I had a mess on my hands, the weeds were 4-7' tall and you could not walk thru them. I found out my 175 had more hp than the Bush Hog could handle and smoked the slip clutch going in first gear. Fortunately it did not catch fire before I ripped the shield off of it. I went back to the truck and tightened down the springs another half turn and that seemed to cure it. It was still a struggle....twin spindle mowers react totally different in the tall stuff because it has a tendency to ball up under the mower. I know they use a lot more HP and fuel than a single when you get in the heavy stuff, but you shred it up and leave a better looking field.
 
(quoted from post at 12:39:56 06/18/16) Realize that you were going over it a second time, it should look better.
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All I know is that they were not happy with how it looked after he mowed it....but said he did a good job the year before. The hairy vetch had really taken off in some areas, and I had to shift down for that, so I would not say that I was just cleaning up the field. What made his day was getting a good mow at a great price. I'm still convinced that the tractor is to blame for the bad cut.
 
If you want a good looking job use a flail mower. Way safer if you hit something and they pick up the grass where the wheels knock it down.
 
Thing of it is the Compacts don't have the torque that your tractor has so it will bog down easier. It's that simple. Doesn't really have a thing to do with weight unless that mower is pushing him downhill. Go take a good look at the stroke on that compact compared to that orange thing you run.

Now as to who's smarter? He is, he's doing it in comfort and not baking on an open station tractor! AC! No, no, no, not Allis Chalmers, air conditioning! That's the big reason I don't advertise to do mowing. I have a few people I do cut for but I hate mowing in the summer heat.

Rick
 
If your cutting grass 10' tall, the problem is not cutting it, but getting it out from under the mower after it's cut. Taking the guards off the back of the mower would be a big help. Very hard on equipment and you are right lots of horsepower. It would probably be faster to cut it twice, first trip about a ft. high, then go over the final cut.
 
I do a lot of mowing around home with my tc33 boomer and 5 foot mower. I know in heavy grass the large R4 tires run down a wide swath of
grass that is hard to pickup especially if the mower is too high. I also know the R4 tires pack dirt really well when I use it on the box blade. I
wonder if those tires crimp the grass at the root so it can't be picked up easily. The other tractors and larger mowers with ag tires I use don't
seem to have the same problem. You have proven its not the mower so I am thinking you have proved my tire theory.
 
(quoted from post at 18:21:08 06/18/16) I do a lot of mowing around home with my tc33 boomer and 5 foot mower. I know in heavy grass the large R4 tires run down a wide swath of
grass that is hard to pickup especially if the mower is too high. I also know the R4 tires pack dirt really well when I use it on the box blade. I
wonder if those tires crimp the grass at the root so it can't be picked up easily. The other tractors and larger mowers with ag tires I use don't
seem to have the same problem. You have proven its not the mower so I am thinking you have proved my tire theory.
Click to expand...

I thought about the R4 tires as well...this guy isn't a farmer, he just thinks he is cause he read all about it on the internet...
 
(quoted from post at 14:28:58 06/18/16) If you want a good looking job use a flail mower. Way safer if you hit something and they pick up the grass where the wheels knock it down.
Click to expand...

With the right setup like mine the blades pickup the grass that the tires mash down. You need your tires set out to 8' though. A flail is way too slow and would never cut some of the weeds that I deal with. I've yet to see a flail that will roll over the rough ground I cut at 5-6 mph....
 
Bill could be right to an extent,but I think there is a bigger problem.These new tractors will only let the pto run 540 or 1000 at full speed,where the tractors mid 90s back would give you 600++ or 1100-1200+.It makes a world of difference on how a rotary mower runes.8 and 10 ft.mowers were the worst mowing mowers in our area until some farmers started putting 1000 shaft tractors on them and turning them 650-700RPM or so.I don't know how fast you are turning yours,but he can not get over 550 with his.
 
(quoted from post at 06:51:17 06/19/16) Bill could be right to an extent,but I think there is a bigger problem.These new tractors will only let the pto run 540 or 1000 at full speed,where the tractors mid 90s back would give you 600++ or 1100-1200+.It makes a world of difference on how a rotary mower runes.8 and 10 ft.mowers were the worst mowing mowers in our area until some farmers started putting 1000 shaft tractors on them and turning them 650-700RPM or so.I don't know how fast you are turning yours,but he can not get over 550 with his.
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I've analyzed the rpm theory many times...and cut and rpm are different for each job. Typically the Bush Hog will cut best at 540, speeding it up often beats down the grass with too much air movement. I use a high suction blade and it does create a lot of dust in dry conditions. I started with a Deere MX8 and that was the worst cutting mower. It left the center high unless you were cutting just a couple inches off. Dealer said I was going too fast....BH has no problem at 5 mph. It is in the design....not all mowers are equal! As far as a 10', my theory is you will get the same poor cut as the compact tractor and 8 footer because you cannot get your rear tires out there where the blades will pick up the mashed grass.
My tractor is rated at 2000 rpm, with pto speed at 1625 so I have a lot of room to play with rpm. In heavy stuff, you are not going to get a clean cut anyway, so I will usually run 1800-1900 just to get the extra hp, but the fuel useage goes up also. That tough 14 acre field used close to 20 gallons in 8 hours. Thursday I was doing light cutting running around 1650 all day and used 8 gallons of fuel in 10 hours!
 
(quoted from post at 15:43:27 06/19/16)
(quoted from post at 06:51:17 06/19/16)
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.... That tough 14 acre field used close to 20 gallons in 8 hours. Thursday I was doing light cutting running around 1650 all day and used 8 gallons of fuel in 10 hours!
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2.5 gallons per hour is not shabby at all. 1.25 gallons per hour is incredible. I knew those Perkins diesels were fuel sippers but that is utterly amazing.
 
(quoted from post at 20:09:44 06/19/16)
(quoted from post at 15:43:27 06/19/16)
(quoted from post at 06:51:17 06/19/16)
Click to expand...

.... That tough 14 acre field used close to 20 gallons in 8 hours. Thursday I was doing light cutting running around 1650 all day and used 8 gallons of fuel in 10 hours!
Click to expand...

2.5 gallons per hour is not shabby at all. 1.25 gallons per hour is incredible. I knew those Perkins diesels were fuel sippers but that is utterly amazing.
Click to expand...

Actually that is .8 gal per hour when cutting light stuff...and I am still using the fuel I bought last winter for $1.40 :D

I look at Deere of the same era running 2500 rpm and have to wonder "why"???
 
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